Valvetrain Questions - 250 Alloy Head HF-1 1982

hucklburry

Well-known member
I bought Xflowecono's (Dave in TX) 76DA block with 82 alloy head, it sat for years, I thought I had oiled it enough before start up but bent 2 pushrods (hard to know until I got an exhaust on it, then started tuning carb, and finally did a compression test). Anyway, here is where I am at:

#2 intake seems the hydraulic lifter didn't pump up, I can spin the lifter but not getting it out too easy yet, working on that
#5 intake valve seems to be stuck closed, I am working on freeing it up (soaking now) hoping to not remove the head

This engine has like 3000 miles on a crow cam 14613, a bit of a "torq" cam, and crow recommends HT900 lifters, not a problem to source in the US
Crow recommends PR-917 push rods, which are 5/6" ball ends .080 wall, 9.7" long - mine aren't marked but that seems to be what it has (I will double check measurements) - I can get these in the US, and I can even get 5/6" .105 wall, is it worth it or better to just bend a push rod if there is a problem?

So I had pulled the valve cover and got the bent pushrods out, and out of 12 rocker arms, 2 are different. See the picture, I have two of the one on the top or left, and 10 of the one on the bottom or right. A google search looks like the one on the bottom or right references correctly to a stock crossflow rocker, part #181-1034, that I can get in the US also pretty easy. I don't know why it has 2 that are different??

Assuming I get the valve freed up, I am thinking of getting all new hydraulic lifters and pushrods, and at least 2 rocker arms. Perhaps some would recommend just going through the existing lifters cleaning etc as they were already used on this cam?

I've searched through the forum, I see roller rockers using a kit talked about, but that conversion kit from crane cams seems to be obsolete. This isn't a high reving engine with this cam (its installed in a 66 Bronco with a 3 speed on the column, 4.11 gears, and soon 33" tires), I wouldn't mind installing roller rocker arms, but I don't know the latest way to do that and what it does to my pushrods? Any current info would be appreciated.

To summarize - my big question is why the 2 odd ball rocker arms, and info on a roller rocker arm conversion (keeping the hydraulic lifters to fit the crow cam)

Thank you! --Jim
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8492.jpg
    IMG_8492.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 11

bubba22349

Top Poster
Staff member
VIP
Supporter 2021
Supporter 2019
REDLINE 10K
Hi Jim, I wouldn’t think the lifters are the problem but you can change them if you want. This is where i am focusing, Having the stuck #5 valve is very common from an engine thats sat un-used for a long time the valve guides will get dry a little rust forms on the stem and locks it up bending the push Rod which is the weakest link. And either a lack of oil to pump up the #2, lifter or that #2 valve was also stuck to, which in my opin was most likely. The good thing in my experience is the damage done is usually only to the push rods

You could try spraying some pretreating oil on that #5 i have recently used some thats is excellent from NAPA called Free All it really travels and cleans. In a simple test you should be able to push down on all the valve retainers to see if the valve will move a little but I would probably still spray all the valve stems while you have it apart. I cant answer why the two different rocker arms were used might be just what was available but if they are the same ratio it probably isnt a big deal in how they will operate. Best of luck
 

eggman918

Active member
Acetone & ATF mixed 50/50 is my go to for penetrant, I spent a couple of decades as a machinist for a well and pump shop and it was the best thing we found. keep it in a sealed container and shake it well before use.
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
Well I do hope you are right! I sprayed what I had on hand, kroil last night and some PB blaster earlier today - I figured I would step up my game later (the atf/acetone or similar) if I need too. Wish me luck!
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
UPDATE, I started this yesterday, used Kroil first, few hours later some PB Blaster as those are what I had on hand. Dug through my cabinet last night, found some ATF, let is soak overnight, and this morning she moves. Still needs some work, sticky, takes seconds to spring back up, but she moved from full up (compared measurements between each intake valve height)

So I either run it with new pushrods or figure out the rocker arm situation on those 2 odd balls, and if its "easy" to go roller rocker arms?

Thank you --Jim
 

xctasy

5K+
VIP
Good fortune, hucklburry. What you are dealing with are a set of used rockers from a 351M.


I bailed on completing the four stage AOD trans adaptor for David, and got spooked off when he wanted to eliminate the emissions gear and I have no one to blame but myself for all that. His work was excellent, and I cannot speak highly enough of him.

I've gotta say, having common bolt paterns for carbs and rockers is a two edged form.

Ford spends millions of dollars developing engines over the world, and they share parts, but there are very critical differences. As long as you do the basic checking, you should be okay. I would much rather you get your info from here, but I will say that going over former board user Mike1157's posts here might help. He has used a 525 lift cam with Chevy roller rockers and screw in studs. His 621 page stubb is stored over at Stang Net, CarMichealAngelo.

Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen. Thread starter CarMichael Angelo; Start date Aug 26, 2013.
"https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/1978-mercury-cyclone-the-pig-is-in-the-pen.871263/"

Index
Because of the length of this thread, I've added these quick reference links to specific areas of the build.
(Work in progress)

Some Completed Car pics:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yr7izLhmCLN3PpkA7
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApMrRU34olFpivwIeVb9QFrxCESMtA



Build Plan

Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Chassis
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 5 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Completed SFC's install:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 20 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Rear Suspension:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 14 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Wheels/Tires
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 7 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Rear end
Initial Narrowing
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 7 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Completed Rear:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 18 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
With Cobra brakes installed:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 20 | Mustang Forums at StangNet

Mini Tub
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 5 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
The Official Gila Monster Build
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 14 | Mustang Forums at StangNet


Engine
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 6 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Oil pan Fab:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 10 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Basic Block Mods-lifter galley clearancing
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 15 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Deck widening:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 15 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Side Plate:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 16 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 16 | Mustang Forums at StangNet

Intake manifold Construction:
My Diy Fi Intake Takes Shape. | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Initial mock up
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 27 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Trans

Engine compartment

Initial sanding/welding:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 13 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Completed welding:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 26 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Painted
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 28 | Mustang Forums at StangNet


Interior
The Dash
Version 1 using stock dash:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 53 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Version 1 scrapped, Version 2 using steel tubing:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 56 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Initial sheet metal coverings-dash top:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 57 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
The skeleton out in the sun:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 57 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Initial fab of ga. pod ("Winkin")
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 58 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 58 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
The underpod initial fab ("Blinkin")
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 59 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Dash Version 3 w/ center insert, electronics mocked up
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 60 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
The console fab and rough completion:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 62 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
More dash/console rough trim out:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 63 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Dash frame painted
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 67 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Dash top covered and stained
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 67 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Complete dash mock up
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 67 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Turbocharger
Hot side fabrication:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 10 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 11 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 12 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Turbo manifold complete:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 13 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Cold side initial fabrication:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 11 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Intercooler

Electrical

ECU
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 27 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Body
Decal Concept
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 26 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Lower side scoops(The Gila Gills)
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 53 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Wind Tunnel tests on Gila Gills:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 54 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Gila Gills complete:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 55 | Mustang Forums at StangNet

Fuel system
Basic Fuel tank surgery:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 7 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Fuel tank lining, Fuel pump mounting
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 20 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Lines
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 27 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Pump/filters
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 27 | Mustang Forums at StangNet



Fairmont, Inline 6 cylinder, turbocharged, australian head, roller cammed, turbocharged, fuel injected
 
Last edited:

xctasy

5K+
VIP
So I either run it with new pushrods or figure out the rocker arm situation on those 2 odd balls, and if its "easy" to go roller rocker arms?

Thank you --Jim
see "https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-cyclone-the-pig-is-in-the-pen.871263/page-19"

You can use US sourced bolt on adjustable Cleveland 2V or 335 series 351M/400 rockers, roller tip or plain. Then use FE pushrods with 9.62", plus or minus 60 thou to get the right valve tip position.

No changes required. As you go up past the stock 435 lift at the valve lift, you need more spring height. 1.700" is okay stock, but you'll always need new springs as they are a weak point in all Canted Vavle Fords.

Up at the 525 Thou valve lift level, you need 1.800", and 3/8" pushrods, Boss 302 or 351 style guide plates and redrilling for 12 Posilock 7/16" studs.

CarMichael Angelo


Comp BBC Beehive valve springs 1.8oo installed height 1.464 diameter, 160# closed/420# open.
Comp Chrome moly retainers. 10 degree locks.
Comp spring cups.
Trick flow SBC 1.5" SS Exhaust valves.
Scorpion BBC 1.880 SS Exhaust valves (used as intakes)
Crane Cams 3/8 pushrod guideplate kit for BBF/Cleveland.
Comp 1.73 BBF/Cleveland roller rockers.
 

hucklburry

Well-known member
I replaced 2 rocker arms with stock melling stuff, 2 pushrods with melling, and the 2 lifters, used assembly lube and such. This page and Oz Forums have been a HUGE help for me. I found all these parts local, and it made sense to swap out the problems and leave what was happy.

She runs pretty awesome, I think I have the weber 38 dialed in fairly decent (DGMS manual choke) - I can get parts in the US easier, a rebuild kit for the 34ADM would come from Italy or Australia, so I swapped it out. The 38 still has the fuel return, I plumbed it into a Ford fuel filter with 2 inlets, seems to be working well. It is before the pump, almost like a little fuel reservoir in the engine bay.

I have some front suspension to work out, at 50mph she was all over the road, but I filled up the tank, got ice cream, and went home. By this weekend I should have it sorted out to drive more.

But the low end torque of this 250, with 4.11 gears and 33s seems to be a good combo, she went up hills just fine, pretty stoked about this engine. I think she puts out torque and hp similar to a stock 1960s V8, maybe even more drivable with the torque and the RPM it comes in at.

I purposely wanted to stay a six, I stayed with the column shift, and the Bronco rat/ran 3-speed. The bellhousing I got bolts to the engine, but didn't have the holes to bolt to the transmission. The casting was thick in the correct areas, so I drilled and tapped the bell to bolt to the 3 speed. I didn't get the clutch fork with the bell, and even emailing junkyards down under, I couldn't find one, I was advised it was a hard one to find, I don't know. I installed a McLeod hydraulic clutch that is working pretty nicely so far, fingers crossed. I sort of wish I had worked with a stock Ford hydraulic stuff like we do with a ZF swap, maybe next time I will research all that given what I learned on this one.

The US 250 is taller, and has some hood clearance issues in a Bronco. This engine didn't, although I have the shortest air cleaner I could find. I need to do another check and see if I can change that up over the winter to a bigger air filter. The stock crossflow oil pan BARELY clears the front crossmember. I need to check the front axle and make sure she doesn't hit the oil pan, or install bump stops. The Bronco isn't for hard core off road, more for trips to soccer games and the hardware store, but I don't want to need to order another pan from Australia!

I had firewall clearance issues with the back of the intake, so I clearanced the firewall. The 3 speed column shift rubs just a hair on the bell at a bolt, I need to slightly bend it. The header (3-2-1) for the 250 just barely rubbed the frame, I had a local custom shop heat and bend the header for me, and install a 2.5" exhaust to the back passenger corner with a cheap 1 chamber race muffler. She sounds pretty nice.

I'll put together a post on it in a few weeks probably, I want to get some miles on her before winter. I have lucked my way into 3 early Broncos and they all get parked for the winter so the salt doesn't eat them up.

Thank you!
 
Top