All Small Six Vapor Lock with Non Ethanol Fuel

This relates to all small sixes

wsa111

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In earlier this year i switched to 90 octane non ethanol fuel.
Since then even in mid 80 degrees F, i have experienced excessive vapor lock.
I am going to go back to 93 octane ethanol fuel & give it a try.
Has anyone else had excessive vapor lock with non ethanol fuel???
 
I cant remember having much problem with non ethanol added fuel Here in Nebraska. I have run 10% ethanol blend for over 40 years. the only time here it would be an issue may be from July to maybe early Sept... Of course on an older Car/ Truck with a Carb., Vapor lock, fuel boiling in the lines, can happen in hot weather here. Extra work insulating fuel lines, and the Carb. from heat goes a long way... I would say your problem could be from just the fuel in your area, dont know if they have winter blend fuel down there. I would say to just maybe try and buy fuel at different places.
 
I did on Saturday. No problem starting cold and running. Took my wife out to lunch and no problem starting afterwards, but we stopped 10 minutes later to run into a store and she was dead, Jim. I decided I am going to try to go back to 93 with ethanol. I also have a phenolic spacer, but need to get some longer studs to see if that helps.
 
I would try an aluminum heat shield between the carb. and your spacer. One that mostly shields the fuel bowl. I have made them out of old aluminum licence plates. I would also insulate the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb.
 
Aside from the issues of tanks and other old rubber fittings getting dissolved, ethanol in smaller percentages [5 or 10%] is probably going to make the older I6 engines run better, when compared to today's basic retail petrols. Here in the UK we are looking at getting 10% ethanol fuel [as well as existing 5% ethanol already in use for many years], and there is a lot of weeping & gnashing of teeth going on in the old car world. [AKA classic cars, etc etc], with dire stories of fuel systems clogging up and breaking down, etc. [Any fuel system that hasn't had rubber hoses & gaskets, etc, replaced in the last 5 to 10 years surely is a dire lack of proper maintenance??]

Here in the UK, Manchester University conducted a series of in-depth tests on an old design of engine [which happened to be an MG XPAG, but the actual make/type is irrelevant] with the main objective being, to find out why old designs of engines fared so poorly on today's petrol?

The tests were conducted in a scientific manner [for discovery, comparison, etc], and came to some startling conclusions!

The real problem old designs of engines have is, today's petrol [with or without ethanol added], has a totally different make-up to the petrol sold in the 1960's! It has very different components! Especially when volatility of its head end components is considered. It is why common retail petrol doesn't have anything like the shelf-life of petrol from the 1960's! {I am assuming US petrol is much the same stuff as UK petrol here? I think it smells the same, anyway?}
Older designs of engines suffer from what is technically known as ''cyclic variability.''
With modern engines, engineers have gone to great lengths to reduce this phenomenon [using electronics for engine micro management]

This phenomenon as been made 'worse' in older engine designs by the changes in the content of modern petrol.

The Uni tests [led by a qualified engineer, who just happens to be an old car enthusiast!], compared the results using a variety of publically-available fuels [They had to go to France to buy E10 petrol!! The UK currently doesn't retail it] . These fuels included various super-fuels which are retailed by major oil companies....[not sure what they're called in the USA?}, as well as normal pump grades.

Most if not all, were unleaded [which is another issue entirely]

As expected, teh expensive [comparatively] top grade fuels performed reasonably well, but surprisingly, fuels with 5 or 10% ethanol did equally as well as the gucci petrols, in making the old engine [in design, it was fully overhauled to maker's spec before the tests were started], run much better.

They also found that the heat issue old engines now suffer from [but didn't, back in the day?]...had very little to do with minuscule evaporation in fuel lines or pumps [make a full flow fuel supply, like the Japanese did....with a continuous circulation, out & back to the tank?], and had more to do with the fact that, due to this cyclic variability thing being quite pronounced, exhaust temperatures were very much higher than wanted.

It is these high exhaust temps which heat up the carbs [heat soak, already mentioned here]....but not the entire carb!

Anyway, I've tried to source a USA link for the book which gives the chapter & verse on the test results, arrives at all sorts of unpalatable conclusions, but offers only tentative advice.
From the UK, the book is as per the link below.


The book can be had cheaper elsewhere.

But please don't think it's purely someone else's viewpoint! Far from it, it tabulated the entire test results, findings, etc, and allows the reader to draw their own conclusions based on the facts of the matter.

Ooops, found a USA link..


If one has an open mind about old [designs of] engines, then it is well worth reading and figuring out what is going on?

How to make our old bangers survive on 21st century petrol?

Me?

I'm looking forwards to trying 10% 95 octane pump fuel in my '67 Mustang...with its 200-6. The fuel lines are all made of modern materials so ought to be ethanol resistant....but it is not a tarty farty gucci car, but merely a nice , almost daily driver for an old fart like me [who spent his entire working life, aside from a brief spell, driving for a living, then becoming a specialist driver instructor to our military [including, on occasions, some of yours!!], so a reasonably spacious motor [I'm far from tiny in stature] with a nice auto gearbox [fed up with the left leg pumping up & down all day long]...suits me fine for now. [until my kids want the money for stuff, then I'd have to flog it]
My other passion is Ford sidevalve motors, of the small variety, in my Dellow. So I am somewhat daft in a way!
 
Welcome to the Forum, this is a good place... Tell those Limeys there not to fear the 10 % ethanol bend. Since they are used to suffering with old British Cars, i doubt if they will notice much. I worked in Import/ Sports car shops going back to the late 70s. Worked on a lot of MGs, Triumphs, and a whole lot of really strange little cars. Most i have not seen on the streets in decades... In Omaha Nebraska there has been 10 % ethanol gasoline ( petrol ) since the late 70s. This is corn country, kind of ground zero for ethanol... Here for ever, there has been some real fear of the blended fuel. Some of that is justified. There is some swelling and destruction of rubber carb parts, fuel lines. It is real bad in small engines, like lawn mowers and such. I cant say i have seen a lot of ate up rubber in older cars and trucks, but it does happen some. Replacement parts, Carb repair kits are suppose to have newer resistant rubber parts, but i doubt that some at times. Old stock carb repair kits, especially for cars that should be in a museum, would suffer the most. Most of the MGs and Triumphs i worked on were from the late 60s up to about 1980. Most had a steady diet of 10% ethanol blend for a long time, cant say i ever saw any problems caused by the fuel in those... The biggest problem here on some cars, was hot weather/hot soak restart. Some cars were border line for that any way, and the lower boiling point of the ethanol put it over the top. Fuel would boil in the fuel lines, carb. bowls. Some Fuel injected cars would suffer also. I would just tell a customer that had drive ability issues, to just use the ethanol free fuel during the summer months... In modern times here, Cargill has built an ethanol plant close to Omaha, in Blair. When they built it , they said it would use all the corn 6-8? local counties could produce. That is good for the stupid local farmers, since they produce way too much corn. Since they over fertilize and contaminate the ground water with nitrates, that is a bad thing... Many good things are made from by products from the ethanol production, like animal feed. It seems nothing is wasted there... Also now at some Fuel stations here, we have 15% up to 85%. The E85 is for very modern cars and trucks that are built to burn it. The down side of the Ethanol fuel is lower mileage, and that is to be expected... Some of the local Drag/ Hot street guys here love the E85, and have set there cars up to run on it. Way cheaper than buying Race gas. An alcohol prepped fuel system is easy to do with a Holley based alcohol race carb.
 
I will let you know after i get my next gas.
I will probable go with 91 octane Sunoco which is available in my area. With 9.4 compression 93 octane would be too much.
 
here's what we use.
Fuels at ur pump are mixed totally different season and geo location from one to nother.
We want it right @ the track...
Once U get the puter under the hood there's more to consider too~
 
Chad, i just drained the tank of fuel from 4-21. Just put in Sunoco 91 octane to get it 1/2 full. Will see what happens. I will install a phenolic spacer in place of the aluminum one now.
 
Bill, its U, just seen over a falcon FB site! U know what U pour? Ever used one of those pipettes I mention above? i think of VL as going w/humidity when I lived on the Chessy (0 -10 y/o ). Since up here (the NE 1960 - efi) never had it again...
 
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do U care? At 9.1/9.3 CR, "No". My daily is @ the pump. What U suggest, Marco is when it matters. It's is basically VP Racing (differnt metal 5gal cans sold nation wide for when it matters). That's 80% of what we mix for/from for the track, yeah, we care there @ 10/12 CR...
 
Been using 91 non-ethanol exclusively for my Bronco 170 since the rebuild 2 years ago, no problems. Sold are Stewarts stations in upstate NY - they also have terrific ice cream !
 
I C it in the stores (not 'soda'?)...
But here again, its the same. What is it actually? U don't know till tested: post 8.
Most vehicles don't matter (low 9s CR),
 
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Non Ehtanol. What's that? :rotfl:

You can see by the l ink below I don't have many options in California.
Marco, you guys in CA have to deal with poor fuel. When i send a distributor to CA the advance is very limited. Lets hope your fuel stays in CA.
 
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