Very strange timing issue

datac

Active member
Last weekend I started this engine for the first time since I rebuilt it back around 2003 (I decided I'd take care of the body while I had the engine out and things got a bit out of hand). Got the cam broken in, no surprises (important ones, anyway), runs and sounds good. I should give some background- this is the second time I've built this particular engine, first time around 1996, grenaded in 2003 (turns out there's almost, but not quite, enough clearance for umbrella valve seals inside the dual springs).

It's a 200, Mallory Unilite with both vacuum (disconnected) and mechanical advance, originally a 272deg Clifford cam w/Rhoads lifters, now a 260deg Comp with matching lifters.

When I went to time the engine the first time back in '96 I was surprised to see that it seemed to want around 45deg advance, which I chalked up to a slipped harmonic balancer. It ran fine, made lots of power, decent mpg, etc., etc. Needless to say, this time it got a new harmonic balancer.

When I dialed the distributor in last week I indexed it at around 8deg advance, assuming that's where it would be happy. Being paranoid I verified TDC on the compression stroke of #1 with the valve cover off and both valves closed, manually verified the piston was indeed at TDC, and saw that the timing mark on the balancer was dead on TDC. All is good, right? When I went to to the initial startup I had to move the timing a bit to get it to start. After the cam break-in I went to adjust the timing at idle, tweaked it a bit until it smoothed out nicely and rpm peaked. I hit it with the timing light and was shocked to see it back at 45deg advance again.

It will neither start nor idle at 8-12deg. Idle rpm are fairly low, down around 750-800, so I doubt if the mechanical advance is kicking in. I am at a loss- did I miss something, twice? It seems to run OK, but something clearly must be out of whack.
 
8) it sounds like the advance weight springs are either broken or missing, or even too light. you might want to take the distributor to a proper speed shop that handles recurving and let them work their magic.
 
It was a brand-new distributor in '96 and exhibited exactly the same behavior. I suppose it could have been defective/damaged from the factory...

Here it is running, sounds strong:

Video

P3160236.JPG
 
The other possibility is that your timing pointer is not matched to the balancer. Late or early cover? Late or early balancer? Perhaps simply marked wrong.

The fix is to construct a piston stop, find TDC, and remark the balancer to match.
 
I verified that @TDC the timing mark on the balancer was dead-on the front cover TDC pointer when I indexed the distributor. I manually verified TDC by sticking my finger down the spark plug hole.
 
Gotta admit I'm baffled. If it was a problem with the mechanical advance being stuck, wouldn't I need to retard rather than advance the timing to compensate in order to get it to run?
I'd almost feel better if it didn't run so well.
 
Distributor clamp not quite clamping correctly? It's caused that same issue for me previously...stock clamp doesn't quite mash up with the base. BTW great looking ride datac 8)
 
datac":e1xla5it said:
It was a brand-new distributor in '96 and exhibited exactly the same behavior. I suppose it could have been defective/damaged from the factory...

Here it is running, sounds strong:

Video

P3160236.JPG
I love the sound of the exhaust, what are you running?
 
Frankenstang":n8g27ft8 said:
Distributor clamp not quite clamping correctly? It's caused that same issue for me previously...stock clamp doesn't quite mash up with the base. BTW great looking ride datac 8)

Nope, it's not slipping. I keep index marks just to check for that sort of thing. Actually, I've never needed to run a clamp with this distributor- because of the expansion differential between the aluminum and the iron block, when the engine is cold it rotates fairly easily, but when the engine is warmed up it's not going anywhere.
 
Asa":3o9ap80b said:
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I love the sound of the exhaust, what are you running?

Thanks!
I'm running the old, obsolete style Clifford long-tube headers through 1.75" duals, no H-pipe, with 18" glass packs. It's louder than it sounds in the video- my wife used to refuse to be seen in it, since it set off all of the car alarms every time I'd drive through a parking garage.

P6240154.JPG


P3160232.JPG


This is the same engine the last time I built it, back in '96 or so:

ford200l.jpg


ford200r.jpg
 
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