well my timing jumped so i wont be drivin for a few days

M

Mustang Boy

Well-known member
well on my way home from school today i was stopped at a light and right as i get ready to take off my car dies and when i go to restart it i hear a back fire and the all that happens after that is motor turning over no igniting at all since i was in the middle lane of a busy road and didnt wanna get out i moved the car around the corner using the starter(i know its bad but people around here drive like idiots) so i get it around the corner and push it up as far as i can before its too steep so i wait awhile and i call my moms boyfriend(former mechanic) and he gives me alot of things to try to get it started(none of which work) about half way into that call my lil bro calls me cause he got out of school and i wasnt there so i tell him to start walking towards me(im only 10 blocks away) so i switch back over and we have run out of ideas so he says he will drop his trailer off at my house and pick up the tow strap and head to me to tow me home well while he was there with me he did a lil investigating and found out that when the motor was TDC the distrubtor was pointing at the #3 cylinder so we think it is the timing chain which is the double roller timing chain from FSPP so were gonna have to tear into it and switch the possibly broke dual roller for a stock one cause it will take less time to get and is cheaper to buy and were also hoping that it isnt a broken camshaft(well im only kinda hoping cause i want a higher performance one)

sry for the long post but i like to give detailed decriptions

the only question i have is when we tried to get the timing chain gasket they asked if it had a sleeve(i think that is wut the guy said) or not and i cant find anywhere in my manual about there being anything about the sleeve oohh yea the motor is out of a 69 falcon with a 200 so if anyone could tell me yes or no i would be happy thanx in advanced
 
I really doubt the timing set is at fault. More likely the distributor gears have been damaged. Pull the dizzy and see.

Some timing cover gasket sets may come with a Speedy Sleeve for the balancer and a slightly upsized front main seal to suit. I suspect that is what the shop was on about. You can buy just the chains new to suit the double roller sets. It is a 50-link chain.
 
Having a double roller fail is rare from what I hear, the whole point of the double roller is that it shouldn't fail in a reasonable life span. I'd suspect the dizzy as well.

Slade
 
ok i just went out there and checked and u guys were right my distibutor gear is stripped pretty bad and the teeth r missing in a few places

now my next question for u guys where would the shavings go from the dizzy gear so i know where to look to get rid of them
 
The shavings will wash down into the oil pan, over time. Of course, get as many out as you can. Got a rare earth magnet on a stick?

Dizzy gears break quite often. My opinion is that the helical gears are not cut correctly on the new cams. This is a problem with every brand of cam - not just one. Consider that the hop-up kits sold 40 years back didn't usually include a dizzy gear... A reground cam is one other way to avoid some of these gear wear issues.

Now to prevention: First inspect the cam gear as best possible. It should live another day. Now fit a special hardened driven gear to your dizzy and grease well with moly grease on reassembly. Drop the oil when hot, and change the filter. Do this twice to flush out much of the metal. Keep your oil change intervals to 5000 miles max for the next couple of years. Remove the dizzy and inspect the gear every oil change.

Glad the cam and timing set aren't at fault.
 
well i usually change the oil every 3000 miles so that is no prob and i will inspect the cam gear as best as possible and where would i get a hardened gear drive for one of our sixes and for the mean time im getting another cam dizzy gear form tommy(aka hasa68mustang) and will use that till i can find the hardened one u talk about
 
From memory, Crane or Comp sell the hardened gear. Az might have it, too. Should be less than $50 shipped.
 
I would drop the pan and pull the pump.

Fords are notorious for twisting the pump drive and stripping the gear if something gets past the strainer and into the pump. Seen it happen more than a few times on small block V8's. A piece of junk will get between the gears, foul the pump, and cause the gear to strip. Check it out to be sure or it may happen again.
 
I rebuilt my 170 about 1 1/2 year ago. When rebuilding the distributor I noticed the little oil hole had no passage down into the shaft. When I ask the question about that everyone said it did. Then a few folks took a good look at theirs and theirs didn't have one either. Then some people said the spirals on the shaft took oil to the bushing. Well the spirals are the wrong way for that, they tend to keep oil from the distributor.

Well I put it together that way and have 5,000 miles and have worried about it ever since.

Wonder if that has anything to do with the gear and or roll pin failing on his and according to posts it is common?

Anyone have any info on how the distributor should oil?

I don't know why there is a oil hole but no way for that oil to get to the bushing.

L.D.
 
I'm having just about the same problem as you are. I'm going to pull my dizzy tonight or tomorrow morning. What should I be looking for? Just a broken gear? And should I pull that hex bar? I got a new one with my engine, so I didn't think anything of it when I installed it. Just wondering what to look for. This old dizzy is real tired, and I'm going to put a new one on the engine, loadomatic or otherwise. Maybe I'll look for that hardened gear.
 
it wasnt quite stripped but the teeth themselves had been rubbed very thin which caused them to be weak and som broke ill try to upload som photos if i can find a digi cam
 
The end play in my distributor is huge. So big that when I tightened the hold down, the timing actually sped up because of that. New dizzy this weekend. I've got the original loado on there. It'll be nice to put up on my mantle with all my old parts, like my original instrument panel. =)
 
This is a problem we see in the Mopar Slant Six also. There is some things you can do to help.

One meantioned the slack in the Dizzy. Here is the deal, as the Dizzy shaft moves or can move it possitions the Dizzy gear differently on the Cam gear. So you take your Dizzy & paint the Gear, yes PAINT the gear. Install the dizzy & crank the motor over( dont let it start, take coil wire off or somthing) Then remove the Dizzy & check the wear marks in the paint on the Dizzy gear. Then shim the Dizzy shaft to possition the gear till it runs centered on the Cam gear, and also shim the slack out to keep it from moving up & down. Kinda like setting the Pinion gear on a rear end. As a matter of fact the Gear marking compound for doing a rear end works good instead of paint if you wish. But mainly get the gear running to where there is the most meat on the gears making contact as you can. Of course worn bushings that let the shaft get tilted dont help things either so a good tight Dizzy is best. But you may have to put shim between the shaft & Dizzy housing(the upper part) to get the Gear centered to run its best. I guess you could even redrill the gear for the roll pin to reposition it if you wanted or had to.


This is easier when you are doing a rebuild on the engine & I have even seen some use Valve Lapping compound between the gears to get a smooth contact. I am not sure about this technic because I always thought the gears had Oil Grooves in the teeth like a rear end gear to help hold some oil on the gears but there is some that do it & say it helps. I have never.

Anyway this may help some get better milage out of your gears. When doing a rebuild there may be some oil mods you could do to help get more oil to hit the gears. I would have to look at the block type to know how to achive this with your blocks but dirrecting some of the drain back oil from the head or lifters towards the spot that they run can help alot also. There has been things like a groove in the lifter boar (on solid lift )to let oil drain by & help the cam & putting stand pipes in the lifter valley to allow oil to build up so there is more to drain through and help the cam. With todays oils it seems to be coming more important to do oiling mods on the blocks because of many more cam failures than there use to be in the past. There not putting something in there that we use to get & some of the pure Racing oils still have this additive & also some Diesel oils have it to. Hot Rod Mag did a right up about it if you wish to look it up.

Hope this helps if not but a little.



Jess
 
Here's a video of my load-o. Look at the end play. And in the pictures, what is this hole here? And why is it plugged on my old one with a trap door, but if you buy a new one, the hole is left open?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBG6IgMpF9Y

img0014dq2.jpg


img0015by7.jpg


img0016vh3.jpg
 
That's an oil hole. Should have a pad of absorbent felt jammed in there. It really dates back to the days when machinery used sacrificial oiling - think of old factories from the 19th century... My '68 points unit (Aussie made) has a flapper on the oil hole.
 
So should I put some oil in there when I get the new dizzy on there? I wanna swap the flapper somehow that's really awesome.
 
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