All Small Six What to do about damaged pistons in 144

This relates to all small sixes
JoeCrozier

JoeCrozier

Active member
Question from a beginner (be gentle haha). I have a 1961 Falcon 144 engine that I got for free off craigslist.

Posted briefly last year about beginning to tear it down here.

Well, as you can see from this photo, once i got the head off, it was in pretty rough shape inside. Standing water, wouldn't rotate, and several pistons were rusted in place:

piston.jpg

I've made serious progress since then and have been able to get 5 of the pistons out, and the cylinder walls actually look pretty darn clean.

Well my question is about what I did to the pistons while getting them out. Again, being a beginner, I did some probably unnecessary damage to their undersides hitting them with a piece of metal to dislodge them:

Probably worst example:
piston1.jpg

The top and sides look great and took no noticeable damage (didn't fall on floor or anything), but how serious is the damage to the underside?

Obviously if this was a high performance engine that I paid for work on, I'd be pissed, but my question is more: "if I debur everything, will it run without blowing up?"

I'd replace the pistons, but when I look online for pistons for sale for the motor, I only find kits for $350+ and given it was a free engine I'm just tinkering with, I'd rather not drop that kind of money on it.

Are there cheaper sources?

One thing I do have is a friend with a bridgeport mill, can the piston undersides be machined clean? Is there anything you'd keep in mind while doing so?



Long story short, if it was you, and you were trying to rebuild this engine on a shoestring budget, what would you do?
 
Cost wise, you'd probably be better off just finding another engine. Facebook marketplace or Craigslist. 144,170, and 200 will bolt right in. Easy to find complete running engine and trans for $200-$300.

I'd say those brute-force removed pistons are toast.
 
Oh there's not even a car for it to go in, and learning how to rebuild a donor engine is like the entire point for me. So just buying a whole new working engine would defeat the purpose.

But agreed that if a whole running engine is $300 then I'd rather not spend more than that on pistons.

You think those are toast?
 
Even if the pistons were in perfect condition you probably couldn't reuse them. The cylinder bores are so rusty that they will probably need a lot of boring to clean up, if that's even possible. The old pistons would then be a pretty loose fit...
 
I hear everyone loud and clear on not reusing them. This MAY mean the end of this particular engine project, but if I get stubborn and go the route of new pistons (with bored cylinders or otherwise) does anyone have any suggestions for sources?

I only knew to google "Ford 144 pistons" and I was just finding results on ebay, seemed like original sets and were upwards of $350. Typical sources such as RockAuto and Summit didn't seem to have pistons.

Are there pistons from compatible engines? If its bored out and I need a different size what are some budget options?

Thank you and sorry for these beginner questions.
 
JoeCrozier said:
I hear everyone loud and clear on not reusing them. This MAY mean the end of this particular engine project, but if I get stubborn and go the route of new pistons (with bored cylinders or otherwise) does anyone have any suggestions for sources?

I only knew to google "Ford 144 pistons" and I was just finding results on ebay, seemed like original sets and were upwards of $350. Typical sources such as RockAuto and Summit didn't seem to have pistons.

Are there pistons from compatible engines? If its bored out and I need a different size what are some budget options?

Thank you and sorry for these beginner questions.
Click to expand...
Your questions are good, don't fret. . I can't directly answer about pistons for that engine, but kudos for taking on tearing into an engine and figuring out how to work on it. (y)
 
If this is a learning experience, what kind of tools do you have? Any engine building tools? Hones? Mics? Bore guages? Torque wrench? Feeler guage? If you have the above, you could clean everything up, down to bare metal, check clearances/ tolerances, compare with specs. It would give you the knowledge of what you have and what needs to be done to get it in spec
 
DON said:
If this is a learning experience, what kind of tools do you have? Any engine building tools? Hones? Mics? Bore guages? Torque wrench? Feeler guage? If you have the above, you could clean everything up, down to bare metal, check clearances/ tolerances, compare with specs. It would give you the knowledge of what you have and what needs to be done to get it in spec
Click to expand...
I think thats kinda the plan for now. To answer your question about tools: a few of the basics like torque wrench and micrometers. No hones/feeler gauges/bore gauges.

I think until I figure out what to do I'll just keep stripping everything. Get the final stuck piston out, clean everything up, see how bad the cylinders are, etc..

Best case I continue with this engine, worst case I might be able to sell off some of the parts I stripped to help fund a new project...
 
JoeCrozier said:
I think thats kinda the plan for now. To answer your question about tools: a few of the basics like torque wrench and micrometers. No hones/feeler gauges/bore gauges.

I think until I figure out what to do I'll just keep stripping everything. Get the final stuck piston out, clean everything up, see how bad the cylinders are, etc..

Best case I continue with this engine, worst case I might be able to sell off some of the parts I stripped to help fund a new project...
Click to expand...
Word of recommendation from experience- keep your bolts, etc in a good container and well labeled. I use several plastic mayonaise jars marked with a sharpie, and group parts together. Fore example, oil pan, front and side timing cover, water pump, thermostat bolts had their own jar. Especially if it will be a while before reassembly, doing this helps (me anyway) avoid confusion about what goes where and digging thru a pile of random bolts on the bench.
Also keep in mind that the crank main caps must be replaced in the same journal, in the same direction they were removed.
Enjoy the journey!
 
Last edited:
I keep all the small ziplock bags I come across, label with a piece of tape. Note the top of the pistons, they will be stamped with the oversized number, if they are. Need to know that in planning. Also check the back of the rod and crank bearings, if ford motor company is printed, your engine has probably not been rebuilt. Take photos of how things come apart. Keep us posted for a little guidance along the way 👍
Any wear area you can do a rough check with a finger nail, if you can catch your nail on it, it need replacing or machine work done
 
DON said:
Any wear area you can do a rough check with a finger nail, if you can catch your nail on it, it need replacing or machine work done
Click to expand...
I think the pistons actually came out much better than expected from above photo of water and rust. As you can see from this below photo they don't look terrible: (sorry its fuzzy, still frame from a video)
IMG_1596.jpg
That said I'll leave it to a machine shop to bore and hone it.

I'd asked above, but does anyone have a good source for pistons?
-The book I have on Ford Sixes mentions silvolites but it seems the current source of that (uem pistons?) doesnt have pistons for the 144.
-Egge pistons seems like they have the right pistons (and can be ordered with correct overbore) but they're $400 and given this engine isnt being built for performance but rather- "will it run?" that seems excessive.
-Advanced Autoparts has "sealed power pistons" that supposedly fit according to their website and a set would be $215ish which I could stomach, any experience with those? Garbage?
-Any other sources?
-Are there 'generic' pistons or pistons from other engines that happen to have same size and fit?

Any suggestions are welcome
 
Is there any reason that pistons designed for the 170 wouldnt work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/274309067718

My understanding is they have the same bore size (and I'd check the exact overbore measurement), and simply a different stroke length? When I check those particular pistons on the manufacturers website (enginetech) they do NOT come up as options for the 144 and only show up for the 170, but.... they'd work right?
 
JoeCrozier said:
Is there any reason that pistons designed for the 170 wouldnt work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/274309067718

My understanding is they have the same bore size (and I'd check the exact overbore measurement), and simply a different stroke length? When I check those particular pistons on the manufacturers website (enginetech) they do NOT come up as options for the 144 and only show up for the 170, but.... they'd work right?
Click to expand...
Ah nevermind, just realized they're different compression height. I'm having the worst time finding appropriate pistons for less than $400
 
JoeCrozier said:
Question from a beginner (be gentle haha). I have a 1961 Falcon 144 engine that I got for free off craigslist.

Posted briefly last year about beginning to tear it down here.

Well, as you can see from this photo, once i got the head off, it was in pretty rough shape inside. Standing water, wouldn't rotate, and several pistons were rusted in place:

View attachment 21352

I've made serious progress since then and have been able to get 5 of the pistons out, and the cylinder walls actually look pretty darn clean.

Well my question is about what I did to the pistons while getting them out. Again, being a beginner, I did some probably unnecessary damage to their undersides hitting them with a piece of metal to dislodge them:

Probably worst example:
View attachment 21353

The top and sides look great and took no noticeable damage (didn't fall on floor or anything), but how serious is the damage to the underside?

Obviously if this was a high performance engine that I paid for work on, I'd be pissed, but my question is more: "if I debur everything, will it run without blowing up?"

I'd replace the pistons, but when I look online for pistons for sale for the motor, I only find kits for $350+ and given it was a free engine I'm just tinkering with, I'd rather not drop that kind of money on it.

Are there cheaper sources?

One thing I do have is a friend with a bridgeport mill, can the piston undersides be machined clean? Is there anything you'd keep in mind while doing so?



Long story short, if it was you, and you were trying to rebuild this engine on a shoestring budget, what would you do?
Click to expand...
While you have successfully removed the pistons from the bores if you try to reuse the pistons the next chore will be getting the old rings off without damaging the ring grooves, getting the pistons out will seem like a walk in the park compared to this chore. Since this is a shoestring deal you could try looking at pistons from other engines with a near 3.5 " bore and see if you can find some that have a similar CH and wristpin size. For example Ford 221 V8's and Buick Olds 215 V8's also have a 3.5" bore but I don't know if their CH and wristpin sizes are close. Another thing you can do is check evil bay some vendors on there have old stock pistons for older engines that are sometimes very reasonably priced, its usually from a buyout of a defunct parts supplier or repair shop.But before you drop anything on pistons make sure the block is crack free with water in there it could have frozen.
 
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