what's up with argentine heads?
- Thread starter mattri
- Start date
""Won't be long before someone will be running a small six in the tens."" 
FSPP has been working for the past several weeks (actualy years) on importing the Argie heads. The only reason they are still not available from FSPP, is the problem with the intakes, which we all know are no longer in production. I have contacted numerous foundries and pattern makers here in the US, seeking a way to have these produced in comparatively small quantities, yet at a reasonable price. The cost to have the patterns made, and the mold plates produced is going to run into thousands of dollars.
Yet if successful in my dealings, FSPP will not only invest the funds required to produce the intakes, but will import the heads in mass quantities. If successful, FSPP intends to offer the head, a new quality 4V intake (not a used 2V) designed by one of USA's foremost intake experts, and several exhaust options produced by one of the nations leading header manufactures, all for a price which will be several hundred dollars less than what they are currently being sold for. Bottom line, more quality for for your money (and less of it).
When I first started importing the OZ heads, they were selling for a considerably higher cost than what they are even now selling for. I personally paid $820 to purchase mine and have it shipped over, as did many others. But that was the going price then, and I applaud JD for his efforts. Not only until FSPP was founded and began importing in these in mass quantity, did the prices drop. Today, the heads are available through various sources, not just FSPP. And the prices continue to remain lower than the days when they first started showing up here in the USA.
The OZ heads are not in competition with the Argie heads, as they are nearly extinct. Therefore, the supply lines for Argie heads, must be through various resourses, other wise, one company (or individual) will set the price at whatever they want, which will keep the prices high, as they currently are.
I should also point out that not until FSPP came along, we the forum members (including myself), had few choices for purchasing headers. When FSPP started importing headers from down under, a new high quality header was offered, and again at lower prices. Not only are the prices better, but the competition was forced into redesigning their own header in order to offer a higher quality product. And they had to reevaluate their service issues as well, which have gotten much better.
One last point to consider. Is the current supplier ready, willing, and able to offer support (Warrantee) when problems do arrise.
Better prices, better quality, better service. I think you have your facts a bit mixed up.
My facts came from your post I was not making things up, and besides why did you take my suggestions so personal, they are only my opinions. I am not trying to shed anything negative on anybody, I mean I am thankful for FSPP and all they have done for us inliner enthusiasts. You do not need to feel compelled to give me a history lesson on all your business dealings. We know what you did with the headers and are grateful, if I would of bought an Aussie from you I would have bought those from you too, and the valvetrain, rockerarms etc. etc. I just didn't want to wait five months to get one, and that is not a slam either, we know how long it takes to get them. I also did not realize the urgency you are feeling to get these Argie's either, since the Aussie well is all dried up so to speak, becoming harder and harder to find. Another type of head is needed in case the Aussies are completely wiped from the face of the earth and that is certainly understandable for all of us who want performance.
So I am glad you agreed with me on this cause that is really the point I wanted to make. I am sure that whoever the other sellers of these Argies are that you refer to, will plan to match your prices, or you will match theirs, and that will be good for all of us consumers like you said.
On the business end of things another point to consider would be which supplier will be ready, willing, and able first? What shipping prices are from Argentina compared to production costs here in the US? That will certainly have an effect on price. I don't doubt that Argentinian products will be of the upmost quality since they are currently using all those products as we speak down there already, and have been for years remember Southern Cross Racers post. Heck, in a couple of years we will be arguing if US made products are better than original Argentinian products, when you are successful in your current endeavors, so I guess time will tell in everything.
AZ I applaud you the same way you applauded JD in his efforts( I can only assume that JD was someone who was selling Aussie heads in the beginning, I surely do not want to insinuate that I know facts about that) I guess the "other" seller of these Argies is in the same position he was, in terms of pricing, when he began importing Aussies from what I can gather from your post. So I applaud them too. I am sure your mass quantity ideas will benefit us all.
I guess I am proud that I am among one of the first to have an SP here in the states, and hope to contribute to both their popularity and speak of their quality. I will certainly keep members informed of anything I come to find out about the Argie head as my engine project grows.
As mixed up as I am I want you all to know that I appreciate FSPP and all the products they sell for our engines, they probably don't even need to sell heads to stay in business, and like it or not they have educated other business minded people in breaking down those V8 barriers that we all run into when searching for parts. Success leads to competition and thats healthy IN MY OPINION for all of us inliners. Let's face it people our community is growing in popularity. Is there anything wrong with that?
When both sets of these heads are flow tested, it would also the right time to measure the cc's of both the intake port & exhaust port.
A large port will flow a lot of air, but a smaller port will maintain velocity, necessary for low & mid range torque. Hope whoever does the testing has to equiptment to check this important specification. William
A large port will flow a lot of air, but a smaller port will maintain velocity, necessary for low & mid range torque. Hope whoever does the testing has to equiptment to check this important specification. William
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Anonymous
Guest
Port volume measurements won't be very useful IMHO simply because the port lenghts and even location are different. That comparison will only be valid when you are testing heads with same port locations, like for example, an Edelbrock Performer and a Victor Jr. for a small block Ford.
MandarinaRacing
Famous Member
First of all let me APLAUD all of you.
The members of this board are TRUE gentlemen, that's what I love about this board, I've seen topics like this (in other forums) spiral out of control into insults and bickering...no such thing here!
As for the debate of which is better, WHO CARES!??? The good thing is that we have options, something we didn't have. I've been a member of this board when it didn't even exist, and it was part of the Clifford forums.
The members of this board are TRUE gentlemen, that's what I love about this board, I've seen topics like this (in other forums) spiral out of control into insults and bickering...no such thing here!
As for the debate of which is better, WHO CARES!??? The good thing is that we have options, something we didn't have. I've been a member of this board when it didn't even exist, and it was part of the Clifford forums.
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Anonymous
Guest
Can you imagine if Clifford jumped into the fray and got into the Argie SP biz? It would make perfect sense, they have the infrastructure and it could possibly ressurect their ford 6 clientele.
Alex":19gkpcum said:
I just knew you knew something we didn't.
Now, should I put money on the Steelers, yet?
I dissagree, i think the port volumes would still be interesting to compare vs flow, now a x factor is do the flow tests with each head using its intake manifold attached. Then also doing just the bare head flow test.
A prime example is the head on a 69 boss 302 which had huge ports & flowed a ton of air. In the 1970 boss 302, ford decreased the intake runner volume to get back the loss of midrange torque.
I feel the results with mike & johns heads will be very informative.
William
A prime example is the head on a 69 boss 302 which had huge ports & flowed a ton of air. In the 1970 boss 302, ford decreased the intake runner volume to get back the loss of midrange torque.
I feel the results with mike & johns heads will be very informative.
William
Just a reminder unless the heads are all flow benched by the same shop the results are worthless..... Same a Dyno numbers, all dyno's vary as do flow benches. I agree the number would be of interest but I'm not sure how much value I'd place in even knowing them, if done by different shops.
Ben, if this test comes off, i understand the same flow bench & the same day the flow tests will be done, to keep the playing field level.
Whatever the results are you will come out of the test session with an idea of the potential of both heads. Marketing of these heads will be done in a true capitalistic manor to make the best product available for the buck.
The 4 barrel intake on either head is the best of both worlds. driveability & performance will be paramount.
The main concern is the availability of decent headers for different applications,carbureted, & turbocharged. Lets get it on.+++William
Whatever the results are you will come out of the test session with an idea of the potential of both heads. Marketing of these heads will be done in a true capitalistic manor to make the best product available for the buck.
The 4 barrel intake on either head is the best of both worlds. driveability & performance will be paramount.
The main concern is the availability of decent headers for different applications,carbureted, & turbocharged. Lets get it on.+++William
if a new intake is being designed for these why not cast in bungs for injectors? small thing to add that will allow efi or port n2o for some of us. now that would be a trick motor......efi turbo sp 250
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Anonymous
Guest
I insist, port volume comparison is not relevant on this case. Even on your example you are talking about the same kind of head. You are making a comparison with head that differ on its basic dimensions when it comes to port setup. Just look at a picture of a 250 2-v and the SP with its manifolds on and it will become obvious.
Im so tired about this, because I never bashed on the Aussie head , and I tried so hard a while ago to sell heads, and I lost, for many reasons, to the honest (I remark that) competition of the 250-2v heads (that's bussiness). The only head I was able to sell, I never got paid for it. I don't have a commercial interest on this anymore, or to express it more politely, I don't give a darn about who sells what to whom, or who supports wich product.
For the record, my "BIG DADDY" SP has 125 cc intake and 90 cc exhaust ports.
P.S.: I never thought I would make such a short comeback on this forum...
Im so tired about this, because I never bashed on the Aussie head , and I tried so hard a while ago to sell heads, and I lost, for many reasons, to the honest (I remark that) competition of the 250-2v heads (that's bussiness). The only head I was able to sell, I never got paid for it. I don't have a commercial interest on this anymore, or to express it more politely, I don't give a darn about who sells what to whom, or who supports wich product.
For the record, my "BIG DADDY" SP has 125 cc intake and 90 cc exhaust ports.
P.S.: I never thought I would make such a short comeback on this forum...
I think all of us that are involved, are taking all this a bit to personal, myself included. I don't think anyone is intending to bash anything or anyone, just a difference in opinions. Bottom line here, as BEN so nicely stated, both heads are great when compared to the log (I hope the GEEZER didn't hear me say that)
Martin, I think its a shame that bozo stuffed you on the head. Wish there was something we could do to get him to shell out the funds. And that is saying it mildly.
And here is a promise from me. If FSPP adds these to its product line, I'll personally guarantee a percentage of the profits to you, as I think you deserve it. It's not fair that you take a loss (literally), for trying to support our hobby.
Martin, I think its a shame that bozo stuffed you on the head. Wish there was something we could do to get him to shell out the funds. And that is saying it mildly.
And here is a promise from me. If FSPP adds these to its product line, I'll personally guarantee a percentage of the profits to you, as I think you deserve it. It's not fair that you take a loss (literally), for trying to support our hobby.
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Anonymous
Guest
Now your talkin' mike.
I'd like to suggest 25% each to Martin and John of the gross profit from the sale of each SP head. That still leaves a healthy profit for you from the sale of the intake and header. Let's get this in writing boys!!!!
I'd like to suggest 25% each to Martin and John of the gross profit from the sale of each SP head. That still leaves a healthy profit for you from the sale of the intake and header. Let's get this in writing boys!!!!
66200i6
Famous Member
I second that; I would be interested in any ideas that would support helping MartÃn recover from that financial loss. If he hadn't been stiffed, ruining his cash flow, I would probably be running my ME right now.
I would also be interested in investing what I can to make this new venture happen.
Thanks again guy's for everything you have done for this hobby, Ric.
I would also be interested in investing what I can to make this new venture happen.
Thanks again guy's for everything you have done for this hobby, Ric.
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Anonymous
Guest
If Martin and John want 25% of the profits each from importing these heads then why dont they raise whatever money it would take and do it themselves?? That would make the most sense IMO....Heres an even better idea....I want 25% of the profits also! That makes just as much sense!
I think its really too bad that Martin got hosed from that A$$hole in Florida, but if you guys are so concerned about it, why dont you take up a collection amongst yourselves and then send it to him then?
Mikes done a lot to promote the Inline 6 hobby in the past several years and its not cheap and has required a lot of time, effort, and mostly some big $$$$ on his part!! Most of you guys are really clueless as to how much it actually takes.[/b]
I was going to stay out of this topic, But it seems that several of you guys are tag teaming Mike and he needs some support for all that He has done for the Inline 6 hobby and my own buildup in particular. I dont really understand what several of you are talking about? Its almost like you have some sort of hidden agenda....
Just my .02 cents!
Oh and BTW....
TURD HEADS RULE!!!!!
Doug
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Anonymous
Guest
Mustang_Geezer":2lg5xr08 said:
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
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Anonymous
Guest
First things first,I really appreciate AzCoupe´s and other forum member's comments. I think they understood what I tried to say and Im truly grateful.
I´m not going to get myself into a discussion of that now. I think, it's purely commercial. I see this as the logical consecuence of a market that's actually starting to show growth. Who says that, in a couple of years, thanks to all of this, Ford inline fans will be able to choose from several sources?
Regarding the mofo that screwed me with the money, I will gladly post his phone number if anybody wants to call. Just tell him Martin says hi, and that If I ever get a chance to go back to the States, I will visit Sumterville Fl, and show him some real argie power.
Doug, I don't think it is reasonable for me, and I don't intend to, expect a share of the profits out of someone else's bussiness. At the same time, I honestly think that there would be no knowledge of the SP or ME were it not for me. Of all the argie heads currently in the States, all but one are there because I found, bought, and shipped them. I only made profit on a single one. On one I got screwed, like you know, the rest I just tried to show some real, tangible proof of the product (other than my word). I tried to establish a market, and I failed, period. And yes, FSPP has showed the inline six world something far different than the prices and service they were forced to accept from Clifford. But I think I also tried to do the same thing, as many others have also. And the profound love we have for the Ford Six has a lot to do with it.
For what it's worth, I've seen this before, and my humble advice is, don't start a fight about it. It's everybody's loss if things keep going this way.
My best wishes for 2005 and help keep the chance for the inline Ford to show its real prowess alive!
MartÃn.
I´m not going to get myself into a discussion of that now. I think, it's purely commercial. I see this as the logical consecuence of a market that's actually starting to show growth. Who says that, in a couple of years, thanks to all of this, Ford inline fans will be able to choose from several sources?
Regarding the mofo that screwed me with the money, I will gladly post his phone number if anybody wants to call. Just tell him Martin says hi, and that If I ever get a chance to go back to the States, I will visit Sumterville Fl, and show him some real argie power.
Doug, I don't think it is reasonable for me, and I don't intend to, expect a share of the profits out of someone else's bussiness. At the same time, I honestly think that there would be no knowledge of the SP or ME were it not for me. Of all the argie heads currently in the States, all but one are there because I found, bought, and shipped them. I only made profit on a single one. On one I got screwed, like you know, the rest I just tried to show some real, tangible proof of the product (other than my word). I tried to establish a market, and I failed, period. And yes, FSPP has showed the inline six world something far different than the prices and service they were forced to accept from Clifford. But I think I also tried to do the same thing, as many others have also. And the profound love we have for the Ford Six has a lot to do with it.
For what it's worth, I've seen this before, and my humble advice is, don't start a fight about it. It's everybody's loss if things keep going this way.
My best wishes for 2005 and help keep the chance for the inline Ford to show its real prowess alive!
MartÃn.
I was going to stay out of this topic, But it seems that several of you guys are tag teaming Mike and he needs some support for all that He has done for the Inline 6 hobby and my own buildup in particular. I dont really understand what several of you are talking about? Its almost like you have some sort of hidden agenda....
Martin, Im sorry you got hosed on your first sale of these argie heads. But remember cash talks & bullsh-t walks. you should have gotten payment before delivery of your product. If you have a sound business releationship with your buyer thats a different story. You probably think im a pain for requesting port cc's vs flow. Being an engineer i deal in numbers. Also being in the auto industry for many years i want facts & figures to evaluate. Thanks for the info on the argie heads. they look fair, but could possibly use a larger exhaust valve rather than the 1.38. If i'm wrong correct me, as there is not much information on these heads.
I want to hope FSPP is able to import thers heads with the necessary engineering upgrades & professionalility in marketing this product.
John & Db all you do is blow a smoke screen to a potential buyer with your hidden agenda.
Why don't you let a professional handle the marketing, rather than an amatuer.
If you don't like my comments TS, i'm sick & tired of listening to you whinners. William
Martin, Im sorry you got hosed on your first sale of these argie heads. But remember cash talks & bullsh-t walks. you should have gotten payment before delivery of your product. If you have a sound business releationship with your buyer thats a different story. You probably think im a pain for requesting port cc's vs flow. Being an engineer i deal in numbers. Also being in the auto industry for many years i want facts & figures to evaluate. Thanks for the info on the argie heads. they look fair, but could possibly use a larger exhaust valve rather than the 1.38. If i'm wrong correct me, as there is not much information on these heads.
I want to hope FSPP is able to import thers heads with the necessary engineering upgrades & professionalility in marketing this product.
John & Db all you do is blow a smoke screen to a potential buyer with your hidden agenda.
Why don't you let a professional handle the marketing, rather than an amatuer.
If you don't like my comments TS, i'm sick & tired of listening to you whinners. William
