Wheres My Gusto In My New 250?

[xctasy]

I pleased to tell you "oh Yes you can swap a C4 converter if....". The C5 case is based on what Aussies call the C10 (1970 onwards 164 teeth truck/351C/351W) based pan fill automatic. The trans is longer becasue of the bellhousing case. The C5 is just uses the truck style C4 auto case, and those bits can be retro fitted. Plenty of SVO kits use the C5 case, and then they put in the C4 truck main stator and shafts it it. A hidden mod which not too many know about because they don't know the truck C4 predated the C5. I've got an 88 Hot Rod article on it. Great trick mod!

In Aussie, 'we' called it a C10 becasue they were imported ex USA for the 1970 model year on wards to 1982, and C7, C8 and C9 had been allocated, and C10 was on the case. It's like the C3. That was the first year of minting for the C4 gearbox, but they call it a C3 and people get confused with the little French made Bordeux C3 auto used in Pinos, Capris and some of the 1980 3.3 engined. All in the year it was first minted.

All 302/351 Clevelands and Windsor 351 4V's that didn't get FMX's got this bigger C4 based transmission. It's found in F-150 trucks /Bronco (Falcons, Fairlanes, Ltd's, Broncos, and F100's in Australia) and anything that sees harder than normal duty.

 

[Anonymous]

. The C5 case is based on what Aussies call the C10 (1970 onwards 164 teeth truck/351C/351W) based pan fill automatic. The trans is longer becasue of the bellhousing case. The C5 is just uses the truck style C4 auto case, and those bits can be retro fitted.

No sir.
Every C5 I have (all six of them) is case fill, not pan fill.

The C5 bell housing (deeper and smooth, no ribs) uses the same bolts as the front pump, same as the "small bell" C4 (157 teeth)

I only have ONE pan fill C4 (from a truck) and it uses 164 teeth (so I can keep my C5 flexplate for "Big Bell" 200 ) and the bellhousing has a separate ring of bolts around the outer diameter of the pump, completely independent of the pump bolts.

Want Pictures??

 

[MustangSix]

I think that the C5 has either a deeper pan or a hump in the pan. The C3 is easy to spot because the modulator is on the passenger side of the transmission instead of at the rear.

Maybe this will help:

 

[xctasy]

. The C5 case is based on what Aussies call the C10 (1970 onwards 164 teeth truck/351C/351W) based pan fill automatic. The trans is longer becasue of the bellhousing case. The C5 is just uses the truck style C4 auto case, and those bits can be retro fitted.

No sir.
Every C5 I have (all six of them) is case fill, not pan fill.

The C5 bell housing (deeper and smooth, no ribs) uses the same bolts as the front pump, same as the "small bell" C4 (157 teeth)

I only have ONE pan fill C4 (from a truck) and it uses 164 teeth (so I can keep my C5 flexplate for "Big Bell" 200 ) and the bellhousing has a separate ring of bolts around the outer diameter of the pump, completely independent of the pump bolts.

Want Pictures??

No, I'm certain you are right.


I'll recheck my Hot Rod article, and find some info on truck C4's (our so called C10's). The C5 and truck C4 are pretty similar inside. The depth from the automatic case to the bellhousing plate is longer on the truck c4 than the normal C4, and the same as the C5.

I have possibily got it mixed up between pan and case fill.

 

[Anonymous]

It wouldn't be the first difference between US and Aussie parts!

 

[Guest]

I gotta change the fluid in it anyway, so why dont I just count up the bolts?

Thanks for the good diagram.

 

[Anonymous]

I gotta change the fluid in it anyway, so why dont I just count up the bolts? .

C4 and C5 use the same pan gasket, but different pans and filters.

Two different C5 pans:
1) Shallow with a "Bump" on the bottom
2) Deep pan

Bring the old filter with you to the parts store so you can get the right one.

 

[Guest]

Oh, good, the diagram that MustangSix re-appeared. It was gone for awhile. I was worried Id have a problem ID ing it.

Thanks, MSix, cause I plan to pull the pan this weekend. Then I can ID the tranny.

By the way, which is the C5 on the chart (?), because theres other numbers...or should I look at the C4 pan sizes and pan forms to id it?

I guess then Ill get back to this thread.

All I know is that its a 3 speed auto without OD, a long gear (maybe in the rear, 2.73?) compared to my C3 3.55 Merkur XR4TI (going 60 @ 3000 RPM's) and the previous owner told me it was a C3. He didnt seem to know much, though...kind of a "billy" (no offense meant).

It does "feel" like the C3 that was in the Merkur, though.

Whats the difference between the C3 and the C5? Because I swear that C3 in the Merkur was locking converter also...Felt much different than all the AOD, A4LD's, 727 etc, that Ive had. They (AOD, A4LDs 727) had a little "slip" to them at low rpms, and didnt "clunk" right into reverse or from neutral to drive. No, my idle isnt high.

In this Fairmont, I feel its a locker too, whether it be C3 or C5.

Any answers or debates to this thread?

 

[Anonymous]

By the way, which is the C5 on the chart (?), because theres other numbers...or should I look at the C4 pan sizes and pan forms to id it??

The C5 didn't come out until 1982, the chart was printed before that.

Use the pan gasket to get close to what you have.
"RIGHT CLICK" on that chart above and save it to "My pictures" in your computer, then you will have it forever.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, Linc's, I did that right after I posted my last posting.

 

[xctasy]

It wouldn't be the first difference between US and Aussie parts!

See this from the Aussie forum!

I'd be using a c-series flex plate and re drill the crank mounting holes. The centre boss is the same on the rear of the 221 crank so its not like you could really muck it up too much. For insurance you could use a spreader plate off a cleveland as well, doing the same mod.
The so called C9 is a Vee-Eight-type C4/10 with the bigger input shaft and oil pump drive, mounted on a 6 cyl bell. I think they are fully manualised as well. I'm not sure if the 8 cyl converter will fit in the 6 cyl bell so it may be a matter of having a custom converter made up. Most turbo X-series owners run C9's but still manage to destroy them.
The flex plate isn't unbalanced Adam, it's zero or neutral balanced. Just me, an engine balancer being pedantic
I'm just around the corner from you 64XM. Work from home in Kilsyth, and part time at Just Falcons/Kilsyth Parts. Is your car matt black?

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

My 81 Mustang coupe has a 200 and a C4 with no a/c. I also noticed you have a non a/c car. Nice and lightweight.

If I were a bettin man I would bet on a 7.5" rear and 2.73:1 gears and no traction control.

Get under car and remove the one bolt holding the axle tag on and take the tag off. You will probably have to use some stel wool or a scotch brite pad to clean it up. If its too hard to rear place a piece of white paper over it and rub it with a pencil.

The tag will ahve a top row of numbers and or letters and a bottom row.

What you are looking for is the bottom left number and the numbers to the right of that.

It will show something like 75 and then something like 273, if it says 2L73 then it could be a Traction Lock rear end.

Not all but the majority of Fox Body inlines I have looked at had 7.5" rears with 2.73 gears. I have seen one that had 2.53 gears. I have seen one I6 Fairmont station wagon that had a 7.5" with 3.08 gears. This was back when I was wanting to run a 10" rear drum brake setup and have the drums drilled but then I was given a 8.8" Lincoln disc brake rear and I dropped the drum brake plans.

 

[Guest]

I would expect mine (81) to be a C3 (C5 began in 82) with Ill betcha that 2.53 It is the dog of all dogs off the line, seemingly worse than a 2.73, and on the highway, rpms stay low.

These are great cars, easy to work on (not as easy as the Falcon, with the simplicity of less vacuum hoses lines, unsensible junk things, etc), but feels like my old 2.3 92 Mustang I had in handling (hence the Fox term).

Plus, I got some slightly used Yokahamas 225 50 15 on the rear matched, and a set of slightly used goodyear GA 205 60 15. Handles way better than I would have thought. some 50s may be soon.

 

[Guest]

So are you guys under the impression that its a C3? Im not under any impression, cause I didnt get under the car yet.