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DSII vs DUI

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1967JMG
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DSII vs DUI

Post #1 by 1967JMG » Sat May 01, 2010 12:06 am

It seems like there are more people using DSII set-ups than DUI's, probably because of the up front cost. The thing is, I like the more stock looking appearance of the DSII, but I want the power of the DUI. If even possible, how can I get the DSII to give me the same added ponies that the DUI would?
Thanks,
JMG
1967 Mustang 200- Oz 250 Head, DUI, Holley 350 cfm, Isky 262H, Hooker Headers, 40 series Flowmaster, T5z, 9" 3.70 Posi

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #2 by FalconSedanDelivery » Sat May 01, 2010 1:05 am

There are NO extra pony's from a DUI ( aka gm HEI ) the only thing going for a DUI is its all in one spot , Ever see one in Nascar ,No, not there they use MSD and thats much closer to a Duraspark unit , same deal with the top classes in NHRA/IHRA , unless they have to use them ( HEI) they were designed for 4500 rpm chevs in the smog era, Ive been working with Dists since 1976 , Chrysler had the best Ignition Modules , Ford the best magnetic pickups , GM the most unitized design , BUT they DON't Make more power
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #3 by 1967JMG » Sat May 01, 2010 1:52 am

So why is it that the DUI is advertised as making 13 more horses over the DSII?
please forgive my ignorance :oops:
1967 Mustang 200- Oz 250 Head, DUI, Holley 350 cfm, Isky 262H, Hooker Headers, 40 series Flowmaster, T5z, 9" 3.70 Posi

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #4 by 64 200 ranchero » Sat May 01, 2010 2:23 am

i have a dsII and msd if you are looking for more power try that :mrgreen:
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.40 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Flowmaster, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #5 by inline300 » Sat May 01, 2010 9:18 am

Manufacturers can make any claim they want too.

Honest company can test many combinations and only need one peak number that looks good.

Dishonest company can make any claim they want.

Think the big appeal for the DUI is the billet material. The actual functional side of the distributor can be immitated using other sources for less $$$$

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #6 by AxeSeth6 » Sat May 01, 2010 9:49 am

This topic will never end (which came first the chicken or the egg). You can get the same power out of either from all the post I've read. I went with the DUI for easy installation, looks and the power (over stock unit). My easy and your easy are 2 different things. The look I like and you like are 2 different things. Power is what most of us all like :twisted: . The purist want to stay all Ford no matter what and I cant blame them but to say that the company that makes the DUI is dishonest is not right. Mike helped have them made and I do not think he would have gone through the trouble if it didn't work as stated. So the debate will go on as long as we keep the INLINE dream alive :) .
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #7 by Lazy JW » Sat May 01, 2010 10:19 am

The DUI "may" have the advance curve closer to what is needed by a performance engine; this, of course, can be corrected in the DS2 and since every engine is different the DUI will probably need some tweaking too.

The DS2 with GM HEI module and TFI coil comes pretty close to the DUI for performance but it is nowhere near as tidy.
Joe
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #8 by inline300 » Sat May 01, 2010 5:38 pm

AxeSeth6 wrote:This topic will never end (which came first the chicken or the egg). You can get the same power out of either from all the post I've read. I went with the DUI for easy installation, looks and the power (over stock unit). My easy and your easy are 2 different things. The look I like and you like are 2 different things. Power is what most of us all like :twisted: . The purist want to stay all Ford no matter what and I cant blame them but to say that the company that makes the DUI is dishonest is not right. Mike helped have them made and I do not think he would have gone through the trouble if it didn't work as stated. So the debate will go on as long as we keep the INLINE dream alive :) .



I didnt say anyone was dishonest.

They are basically bastardizing GM inspired ignition components? Its not voodoo or anything special, its familliar technology with a distributor shaft that fits your engine.

Is it better than stock points, you bet. Is it better than the stock duraspark II setup, you bet.

But at the same time, the actual functional side or increased spark power/curve, can be immitated or exceeded using less expensive sources, there is nothing to debate, thats fact.

Im not knocking the product, if I needed a distributor and had the money, I would buy one of these, then again, maybe not, I like the ignition box/coil/distributor look under a hood...plus Im cheap. :D

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #9 by rbohm » Sat May 01, 2010 7:24 pm

8) the two biggest advantages of the DUI ignition are;

1: everything is in one location which cleans up the wiring.

2: it is much easier to change the advance curve on the DUI since the advance weights are right under the rotor.

beyond that all electronic ignitions are about equal in performance and reliability.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #10 by 80broncoman » Sat May 01, 2010 7:42 pm

there is also the pro comp brand of DUI (GM HEI with coil in cap) systems that are selling all over the internet and ebay
and they sell CHEAP. they may work better and they claim they have better (hotter spark) than GMs modules.
Maybe they do but If their fancy elctronics module dies. The GM module you get at a local store won't come close to fitting under that cap its ALL different than the GM stuff. I have no idea if DUI go this route also.

I have seen may years ago cheap plastic caps and rotor buttons with holes burned right though them on GM HEIs, so i am not really in love with its compactness.
Remember the screws that hold down the coil are pointing directly above the hot end of the rotor. I've holes there and you get a miss that is very hard to find.

I like the system Joe is using on his White truck. all very available parts and most any parts store.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #11 by '68falconohio » Sat May 01, 2010 8:16 pm

It's my understanding that the DSII came with an adjustable vacuum can, my DUI did not. It can be fitted with an adjustable vaccum can from Summit or Jeg's or the like.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #12 by AxeSeth6 » Sun May 02, 2010 12:10 am

Like I said to our poor original poster the debate will go on long after we are all gone. The dsII is a great set-up I went for the DUI because I like the look and Perfomance (over stock) you can get simalar results out of either one I am sticking with DUI now 1. because I bught it and 2. because when I want the carf to start it does. Good luck deciding they both work both are great one looks stock one is definetly not you will have to go from here and good luck.
1968 200ci Duel out CI header, CI DUI, Weber 32/36 carb on adapter.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #13 by 1967JMG » Sun May 02, 2010 2:19 am

thanks for all the quick replies fellas. this thread has been quite busy over the past day. the only reason why i was originally asking is because on the CI site it said the approx horse power gains from the DSII were 5-10 and the DUI was 10-20, so i was wondering what the difference was.
so it sounds like it really all comes down to what coil and module you use with the DSII?
has anyone with power steering tried using the DUI?
1967 Mustang 200- Oz 250 Head, DUI, Holley 350 cfm, Isky 262H, Hooker Headers, 40 series Flowmaster, T5z, 9" 3.70 Posi

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #14 by inline300 » Sun May 02, 2010 6:26 am

80broncoman wrote:

I like the system Joe is using on his White truck. all very available parts and most any parts store.



Ive actually done this myself, its ugly, could be made pretty with creativity but as far as functionality goes, it works great and inexpensive!

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #15 by AxeSeth6 » Sun May 02, 2010 8:45 am

Yes I did the DUI with power steering. There is not much difference between 67 and 68 so it should work for you.
1968 200ci Duel out CI header, CI DUI, Weber 32/36 carb on adapter.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #16 by fordconvert » Sun May 02, 2010 9:10 am

I wonder if there is something in the design and layout of the weights and springs in the HEI vs the DS that allows them to get a bit more out of the HEI? It appears that both have the improved mechanicals and they both have a 'special' module and coil so from that standpoint you would think they are both pretty close.

I have not seen the small 6 version of the DUI but their other versions everything is physically interchangeable with standard GM stuff. Quality, value, and performance is yet another question. For the 8's thats nice because most stores have options in the quality of caps and rotors. 6's I suspect CI would be the best source since not a lot of people are hot rodding 6's.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #17 by Lazy JW » Sun May 02, 2010 10:29 am

1967JMG wrote:..... approx horse power gains from the DSII were 5-10 and the DUI was 10-20, so i was wondering what the difference was......


I'm too lazy to look it up but I am "guessing" they used a stock DS2 in this test (someone please correct me If I am wrong) and the DS2 "tin can" coil is essentially the same as the stock breaker point type coil. The DUI uses the "E-type" coil (so called due to the shape of the iron core) which is definitely superior because of its higher inductance capability; if you hang an "E-type" coil on a DS2 then the game is much closer to even.
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"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #18 by fordconvert » Sun May 02, 2010 11:49 am

Ahhh.... I was thinking that comparison was to their DS2 but if it was a 'stock' one without a re curve and such...
TJ H

Had a 66 mustang coupe, traded in for a 93 convert 2.3.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #19 by rommaster2 » Sun May 02, 2010 1:54 pm

If your down to wire it all up i would say go ds2 with msd module, thats what i've been running and you can pick up used msd modules for pretty cheap (got my module and coil for $100) which puts my duraspark 2 and msd package at about $150 pricewise. Made such a huge difference.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #20 by Broncitis » Mon May 03, 2010 12:31 am

I agree that the cheapest way to get a really hot spark is keep it cheap with the distributor and make sure it has the timing curve you want and put an MSD unit on it with a good e core coil and light it up, its amazing how far you can hold the cap wire from the coil and watch the blue lightning show, you will have to have spiral core wires of a good brand to hold the juice in the right places, I like talor wires, but theirs another can of worms and opinions and open the spark gap to at least .045 and you don't have to run any kind of fancy plugs, the cheapest will work fine and last longer with the cleaner burn.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #21 by MustangSix » Mon May 03, 2010 8:08 am

DUI + optimized ignition curve, integrated assembly, simplified wiring, performance electronics, consistent hot sparks throughout the rev range.

Keep in mind that the DSII is an "emissions control device" designed to provide a consistent spark for 50,000 miles, not a performance distributor. To optimize it for higher performance you need to do more than just take it out of the box. It is far better than points, however.

Can you make a DSII work as well? Sure, but you need to spend a good bit of time figuring out how to recurve the thing properly, add a decent ignition box, find a good coil....
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #22 by FalconSedanDelivery » Mon May 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Ok this May insult , but here goes, first a bit of history , I recurve Dist and anyone here can Google me ( Faron Rhoads ) most of the Dist's I work on are in engines that make more power at Idle than most of the combos on here , Now with that said, A Recurve means nothing on a dyno ,and Everything on the Street on a Dyno the pulls usually start at 3000 , and by then the curve is all in ,( or should be , the only exception to having your dist curved for a Dyno pulls sake ) and I suspect THAT"S where the extra pony's came from , I like this site, BUT everything sold through CI , is NOT , the must have part , many of them are fantastic , The DUI isn't one , its an overpriced Chevy Dist, that dosen't even have an adjustable Vac adv? , mated to Ford six base, if you bought one fine, it will work since most of the sixes on here never see the 5000, if you didn't get a Duraspark ,a 68 and up Dist have it Curved correctly, and a good coil, good Wires . and an MSD 6al, ( if you really plan on above 5500rpms) , less money looks like its for a Ford ( because it is )and will power past 7500 ( although that's obviously an extreme case build ) Most of the stuff on here would be better off with a pertronix conversion and a 68 or later Dist , When even a points dist is New it will be splitting straws to find extra HP in an electronic system , its a week later , that they start to and continue shine. A DUI is a GM Dist designed in 74 , no better than the Ford or Chrysler Dist of the time, or NOW again , NASCAR , or any other endurance style Racing does NOT use them. many Street machines and Hot Rods do , ( of course the ones for a GM are 79.95 ), ok this is my last post on DUI's Spend your money were you wish. In the end its usually that.
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #23 by sp_alloy_head » Mon May 03, 2010 2:52 pm

FalconSedanDelivery - Do you believe that the directions in this article will get us pretty close to the "ideal" curve?

EDITED the link.
Last edited by sp_alloy_head on Mon May 03, 2010 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #24 by '68falconohio » Mon May 03, 2010 3:28 pm

sp_alloy_head wrote:FalconSedanDelivery - Do you believe that the directions in this article will get us pretty close to the "ideal" curve?


I couldn't get your link to work, is it just my shady computer?
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #25 by FalconSedanDelivery » Mon May 03, 2010 4:36 pm

I cant get the link to work as well
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #26 by sp_alloy_head » Mon May 03, 2010 4:55 pm


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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #27 by Lazy JW » Mon May 03, 2010 5:01 pm

The link worked fine for me. It gives a good, step by step procedure for re-curving the DS2.

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as any one "perfect" curve, and the ideal timing will vary from day to day and season by season, even a different tank of gas will change things. This is why modern fuel injection has such an advantage; by using knock sensors, MAP sensors, O2 sensors, etc. they can constantly adjust the timing and fuel curves on the fly, something which we simply cannot achieve with "dumb" centrifugal advance mechanisms. If you could see the actual timing curve on most EFI engines it looks more like a sawtooth than a smooth curve.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #28 by FalconSedanDelivery » Mon May 03, 2010 5:47 pm

Agreed , well put
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #29 by CobraSix » Tue May 04, 2010 8:18 am

Bottom line, DSII versus DUI is about three things. Cost, Appearance, and parts availability.

Performance can be made the same. I went with DSII after my pertronix failed (no fault of the pertronix) one night and I limped home on 3 cylinders firing for 20 miles. I wanted over the counter available parts since I drive my car to and from work during the summers. DSII fit the bill. I do have an MSD ignition box, which greatly improves the performance of the ignition system. Coupled with a Flamethrower 40kV coil, I don't think I can improve much beyond that other than a tailored ignition curve for low RPM performance or to go with a modern ignition system.

My project for this summer is to set up a Mega-jolt (or I may start using MS) to run with a ford EDIS system. I've been extremely impressed with the long term performance of this system on my 1991 explorer. 325k miles on the original distribution pack.

I do admit the DUI looks nice, but for me it isn't worth the extra money and I don't see how I would gain any power over my current DSII set up.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #30 by 64 200 ranchero » Wed May 05, 2010 3:46 am

dsII with msd 6al, now my car feels ilke i can take a v8
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.40 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Flowmaster, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #31 by rommaster2 » Wed May 05, 2010 5:38 am

64 200 ranchero wrote:dsII with msd 6al, now my car feels ilke i can take a v8


Yeah, so does mine, first and second gear keep up, theres the small matter of when those damn 289's reach their power band. Now honds, shoot i can take a civic uphill and with the five speed swap on flat ground for a while till they hit 7,000 rpms :P.

In all seriousness, my falcons exhaust smells less then most of my friends late 80s early 90s cars and it has no emissions equipment (its a 65) ever since i put the msd in. Thats with it running rich with the two barrel, but the damn thing works so well :). Only thing i would caution against is that apparantly some of the early models on the adapters used the reverse wiring pattern and mine was one of them so it screwed up my timing till i figured it out. Baffled me cause i thought it was the carb that needed tuning and i would tune it at a gas station to perfection with my vacuum guage (of course i keep it in the car) and then i would go to leave and it would barely drive. After i fixed that though it was smooth sailing ever since.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #32 by fordconvert » Wed May 05, 2010 9:54 am

Ya that pickup polarity thing can be a real head scratcher.

An MSD6 will trigger off points.
TJ H

Had a 66 mustang coupe, traded in for a 93 convert 2.3.
73 Eldorado convert 8.2 megasquirt, 80 Eldorado 5.7 diesel, 96 Suburban 6.5TD, 05 Magnum 5.7 hemi.

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #33 by bmbm40 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:57 pm

Lazy JW wrote:
1967JMG wrote:..... approx horse power gains from the DSII were 5-10 and the DUI was 10-20, so i was wondering what the difference was......


I'm too lazy to look it up but I am "guessing" they used a stock DS2 in this test (someone please correct me If I am wrong) and the DS2 "tin can" coil is essentially the same as the stock breaker point type coil. The DUI uses the "E-type" coil (so called due to the shape of the iron core) which is definitely superior because of its higher inductance capability; if you hang an "E-type" coil on a DS2 then the game is much closer to even.
Joe


Never heard of an "E-type" coil. Who makes those?
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #34 by Lazy JW » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:06 pm

The General Motors HEI coil is an "E"-type as is the Ford TFI, there are no doubt a number of others.
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #35 by bmbm40 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:05 am

Thanks, always learning something new on this site.
I will do a search to learn more about these. Have not seen anyone talk about using E-coils until this thread.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #36 by rbohm » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:01 am

8) the term E coil comes from the fact that modern ignition coils are coated with epoxy rather than being put in a metal can filled with oil. the biggest reason being that epoxy, or E coils, are far more vibration resistant and thus last longer.
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Re: DSII vs DUI

Post #37 by Lazy JW » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:38 pm

The armature is shaped like the letter "E".
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