Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40, mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry, rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad, drag-200stang, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Jimmys61falcon, rjonah, Sooshi, Robert92867, Invectivus


PLEASE TEST ON http://dev.fordsix.com

<<<***PLEASE READ*** New Site Update >>>

high ratio rocker arms

Moderator: Mod Squad

MustangSix
Assistant Admin
Posts: 3763
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:15 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #101 by MustangSix » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:58 pm

67Straightsix wrote:I pretty much understand what you're saying, but I don't quite understand how you get the 70 thou offset without enlarging the bore on the rocker. I have made bushings and have been experimenting with FE rockers - my problem is the bushing thickness is only .031 so you'd have to enlarge the bore on the rocker to make an offset bushing (I don't think there's enough material on an aluminum rocker to do that and be strong enough)- also, the geometry of the rocker is off. I'm thinking if you lower the rocker pedestal approx a .25" that would correct the rocker geometry.


Take a look at this old B-series MG rocker I have on hand and you can see where the rocker was rubbing the valve stem. The distance from the pushrod ball to the rocker shaft center is almost exactly 1.00". From rocker center to the outermost edge of the rubbed area is 1.45". The published spec for this MG rocker is 1.46:1, so that's probably pretty close to right.

From the edge of the wear area to the very end of the pad I still have about .080" of unused space. If I simply move the rocker pedestal back by .070" it allows the rocker to use that space. My ratio goes from 1.46:1 to 1.53:1 just by doing that.

My cam lift is .265" so the my valve lift jumps from .3869 to .4055 inches, a gain of .018 in lift and a corresponding slight rise in effective duration. It isn't much, but on this tiny engine it could be worth a couple of horses.

Alternatively, you could offset bush the rocker itself. A .030 offset rocker bushing would mathematically give me similar results, BUT - the distance between the valve stem and the rocker shaft center is fixed. That end of the lever remains 1.46" no matter what the rocker bushing does. You would have to offset the rocker shaft a similar amount to get the gain of a longer lever arm.

Right now I'm leaning toward just making new pedestals because the height also needs to be adjusted a bit to correct some geometry that I think is off. But the bushings would be a very easy thing to do as well.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Jack Collins

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #102 by 69stang_250 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:39 pm

Ok so I just spent a little while doing some math and using what you guys have posted in here this is what I have came up with.

If your stock rocker is 1.43:1 you need to move the arm toward the valve .095 to get a 1.62:1 rocker ratio.
This is using a rough measurement i did with a phone ruler ( my ol lady has mine in her car. idk why).
That is saying the PR side is 1.3125 center to tip and valve side is 1.8733 center to tip.
so taking that .070 bushed rocker shaft and a .025 bushed stock rockers.
Now for the questions.

How much do you have to shim the pedestals to fix the geom?
does that affect the ratio? or effective lift?
I am sure it does, but how do you apply that math to the ratio?
Also, buy moving the arm toward the valve, is there any mods to the wear pad needed to be done?

And by the way guys, looking at how much it cost for certain new shafts and rocker arms, I can see how 1.6 rocker assemblies cost $400 for a company to make money.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #103 by cr_bobcat » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:02 am

My sample 1.76 FE rocker showed up today. Holy smokes is it close to the rockers on our little engine. Now I wanna go take some measurements of the 223 rocker shaft I have out in the garage to see if that guy has the same dimensions as the 200 shaft or if it matches that of the FE valve train. Maybe there's some horse trading I can do on this thing. The geometry of the pushrod side of this 1.76 rocker is definitely different than that of the 200 rocker. It looks like I've got to angle this bad boy a few degrees higher on the valve side. This will mean I need to carefully figure out what the installed height needs to be or start looking at taller valves. I've got a fully assembled head sitting on my work bench so I'll have to try to gauge the relative geometry. The shaft diameter size "might" be close enough that I can install this 1.76 on with the 1.5 side by side and do some comparisons.

Dare I say that this is starting to look feasible. I have a couple routes I can go, I think: longer valve stem or shorten the pedestals. I may try to fab this up with some pieces of plywood roughly cut to the size of what these new pedestals would be. There's gotta be someone here in town that can cut up some ingot for me once I get it all figured out.

If I can use stock FE rockers with a set of custom pedestals and maybe sweet talk someone into making me a custom length shaft, I might be in business....

:beer:
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #104 by 69stang_250 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:28 am

Can you post some pics of them side by side?
I am gonna hit the pick n pull around here soon and see if I can't find an old set of fe rockers to play around with.
If the ratio works out better than 1.6 I may build some for my engine. If not I'm just gonna go with the RAU high ratio rocker assembly. Like I said earlier, it doesn't look like those guys make a lot off the ones they sell for our engines.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #105 by cr_bobcat » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:29 pm

Sorry it took so long. Photobucket hadn't been cooperating for me the last few days.

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r67 ... ieiy44.jpg
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #106 by 69stang_250 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:07 pm

So here is a question for ya. What engine is your rocker assembly from? Looks like yours mounts different than mine does. On mine the bolt goes through the center of the pedestals and the shaft. Yours looks like it is off set. Also, there is more meat on those FE rockers to of set bush them if you can get the pedestal height correct they may work just fine.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #107 by cr_bobcat » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:37 pm

Oh, that other set of rockers is from a separate failed experiment. That is the full rocker setup for a 223 inline. Those rockers are way too long and are something like a 1.43 ratio. I have 3 other setups: 2 non-adjustable, 1 adjustable. They are all the 1.5 ratio for the 200/250. It's also the same rocker shaft O.D. as that of the Falcon 6. Was hopin to get lucky but alas, no.

I haven't looked into what those 223 pedestals will do for me with the FE rockers. I will probably just have someone fab me some new pedestals offset by the appropriate amount to use a customized 840 thou shaft. The shaft for a 200/250 is something like 750 thou. I'll probably contact RAU to build an undrilled 840 that is the proper length. That way I don't have to bush anything and potentially weaken parts.

I'm trying to work a pedestal loose from one of my other shafts to see how much meat I have to play with. If I have enough to just re-center drill the holes for the shaft then that might work too. Still too early for me to have that figured out though.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #108 by xctasy » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:08 pm

cr_bobcat wrote:Sorry it took so long. Photobucket hadn't been cooperating for me the last few days.




I've put the Equal sign in here three times, but HTTP DOESN'T SHOW IT.

But I'm sure you get the idea.


[url]http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r679/cr_bobcat/Rocker%20Arms/20160122_054241_zpsqiieiy44.jpg[/IMG]http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r679/cr_bobcat/Rocker%20Arms/20160122_054241_th_zpsqiieiy44.jpg[/IMG][/url]




Image

Image


Rocker to pushrod alignment in the side elevation improves as you raise the valve from its nominal 4.79" to 5.16". The taller valves are aftermarket 283/307/327/350 Chevy first generation, used by early 289/302/351 non Cleveland head modifications 'back in the day'.

SI can get you anything you want. Holden Australia used them in the factory 1974-1978 L34/L31 308 Homologation special , and Yellla Terra used them as an upgrade to the Bathurst L6 202 12 port cylinder head.

All small six stuff is a bit of a disaster for valve height, which is why in 1976, Ford went to Clevleand valve heights and port geometery on its cross flow engines. 1.73:1 rocker ratio longer valves about that lenght and more.


Getting the picture, Ford Australia did this 40 years ago, and FE designers did it 60 years ago.

High riser FE engines have 5.45" tall valves, and a differerent Valve angle of 13°, but raising the valve and pedastol to suit helps.



All the advice from Faron (FordSedan Delivery) was that he uses lash caps to correct geometery with his adjustable FE roller rockers. Pictured is the non adjustable.

You can drill for adjusters, or jest get the aftermarket roller rockerts.


Bill Ambler asked for some cross sectional views on the iron and aluminum headed small six, from those, you can see the pushrod angles between FE and small six exist simply becasue the camshaft is in a different position.

some cross sectional views of the FE Edlebrock Performer head give you the ideas on what changed between the small six and the FE.

Image

Image


Its not rocket science...its rocker science, and its easy...
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #109 by xctasy » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:15 pm

[url]http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r679/cr_bobcat/Rocker%20Arms/20160122_054241_zpsqiieiy44.jpg[/IMG]http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r679/cr_bobcat/Rocker%20Arms/20160122_054241_th_zpsqiieiy44.jpg[/IMG][/url]

:nod:
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

BCOWANWHEELS
Registered User
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:32 am

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #110 by BCOWANWHEELS » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:19 pm

amazing all you engineers ! have done all this for what ? this has already been solved and the cost alone throws all you engineers to the rear........................ put your brains to work on a double roller timing chain for the 250
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #111 by cr_bobcat » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:11 pm

Oh, I know I'm so close to cracking this nut. I didn't know Faron went this route too. I was contemplating getting a few other samples to play with. I figure that geometry ain't so bad when you know exactly what it is you're looking for. I have most the numbers figured out (Matlab is an awesome tool). I can plug and play different specs but I need real samples to look at/measure. I'm always looking for the path of least resistance!

Sorry Bob....gears are a bit foreign to me. I'm an electrical engineer by trade and even then I'm about as far away from a tech as can be. But if you want me to spec an industry standard over this, i'm your man.... Well, that and even though I technically "own" a 250, I don't know exactly where it is. I pulled the head and C4 but the block I couldn't transport. I assume it's still at the dude's house but I don't have the room for it and I reckon I already got my $200 worth of parts out of it... that being said, eventually I'll mosey over again to see if its still there...
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #112 by xctasy » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:51 pm

We luv ya Bob!


Just a note, Faron (FordSedan Delivery)didn't go this route on his 220 hp 250 12:1 engine, he used an old cam grind with not much lift, not much duration, he didn't need 1.73 or 1.76:1 rockers to get his 12 :1 compression, 14 second 66 Mustang to do high 95 mph passes.

He just followed the 1971 Ak Miller based articles and built the engine they way he saw fit. Gene I think has that engine now. Faron mearly said to us all that he liked to use lash caps to fix up any clearnace issues on his race and road FE engines, and that he was quite happy having a solid lifter rocker gear. Faron says quite a lot of very revolutionary things about everything, we just didn't get it the first time around.


:thumbup: I'm breaking my comttment responding to this post, but it it helps, then its all good.

Why would I go buy an Aussie twin roller chain and broach it for a US US 250, when there is so little market for it?.Mike1157 found the A series Mini 1275 double roller chain and similar 18r Toyota and 308/304 Holden twin roller chain was able to be matched with a 5.0 aftermarket sprocket on a US 250. So if you want one, get your enginer dude to have a go, and set up your own service.

Its basically just a machining operation that will cost you the time to rework the existing parts. JP make it from common white box supplies, but even Diecrest don't have any customers for a 250 gear drive, and there were about 4 million 250 engines made between 1971 and 1992. Al using US technolgy. And we make 350 to 400 hp naturally aspirated 4.1's down here from taxi cap engines, with blister pack rings and bearings and often locally made knock offs of US pistons.


IMHO, its not engineers. Engineers do for 10 dollars what costs you 100. They are like lawyers at the bottom of a lift shaft, a good start culling off the bad ones, but a nessesary evil. I think back in the day, Mao Tse-tung asked his subjects to eliminate all the sparrows out of Shaghai back in the 70's, but it created an insect problem....

There is no way to collapse the quality price trade off in your favour excpet by informing you.

You just have to bite the bullet, and do it. If you've gotten a good price on the rockers, then props to you brother...its becasue an Engineer has gotten off his butt and done the work for you.


I've done the rocker swap here using borrowed FE rockers myself, cost an armload for stuff s relative to a Chevy 350, cheaper here in New Zealand than it is in the USA. Its all supply and demand. The Aussies down here, form import and locally made sources, sold only about 2500 new Small block Chevy 350 engined cars a year from 1971 to 2016, but over 60000 per year in line sixes per year between that time. So its 24 times more expensive to do a Small Block Chevy than it is to do a any in line six down here. That's why the solutions are now Australian and why your getting tcked off. The cost of doing a 5.0 SBF or SBChevy of any kind will keep dropping, and its unlikley anyone here will help collpase the service price equation.

Back in the day, we made for 700 milion dollars a 240 plus hp 15 second streat pounding Ford in line six sedan that would whip the hiney of any Ford car made anywhere, but no one wanted it. They buy Camry's instead. So its just the way things is heading. LOL!


I do my information for free, but not my product. I'm broke as any New Testment apposle except Judas Isacariot on a Thirty pieces of silver performance bonus, spending a percentage of my time helping you guys. Becasue you'll have saved me thousands over the 15 years I've been here. Thanks everyone, and a large amount of info is from engineers here.


Its a take it of leave it deal. If it don't help you none, just don't read my posts. It's nothin I take personally. Some people just like milk, others want to meat.

You've gotten what you need on the rockers, job done for me.

You've now gotten a free rundown of what you need to do to do a SBF 5.0 timing gear conversion with a cheap Indian twin roller chain that British Motor Coprporation designed to win the Montecarlo in 1963, then Toyota used a similar version as did General Motors Australia as they copied it on the updated 1969 Holden 253/308 HQ Monaro engines chain. That chain won the Australian Touring car championhip's 163, 621 mile race in

1966 Morris Cooper S 1275 (130 lap, 500 mile race)
1975 Holden LH Torana L34 308 (163 lap 621 mile race here on)
1976 Holden LH Torana L34 308
1978 Holden LX Torana A9X SS 308
1979 Holden LX Torana A9X SS 308
1980 Holden VC Commodore 308
1982 Holden VH Commodore SS 308
1983 Holden VH Commodore SS 308
1984 Holden VK Commodore SS 308


When the timing chain was down graded to single roller, it still won, but failed at Monza.
1986 Holden VK Commodore SS Group A 304

They then homologated the 1971 HQ Holden 308 timing chain again, and kept winning.
1987 Holden VL Commodore SS Group A 304
1990 Holden VL Commodore SS Group A SV 304
1993 Holden VP Commodore 304


Then the 5.0 Ford twin roller timing chain set, won Bathurst seven (7) times, but the 1967 win in a 289 hp 225 HP V8 also used a similar chain on the 1967 Ford XR Falcon GT 289, so it could be 8 wins

1994 Ford EB Falcon Boss 302
1998 Ford EL Falcon Boss 302
2006 Ford BA Falcon Boss 302
2007 Ford BF Falcon Boss 302
2008 Ford BF Falcon Boss 302
2013 Ford FG Falcon Boss 302
2014 Ford FG Falcon Boss 302


So if you use a timing gear like Mike1157's and an Indian made twin roller timing chain, then you have 7331 miles of race proven reliablity in the chain, and about, oh, 4347 wins on the timing gear set.


Thus end the words of xctasy...
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

BCOWANWHEELS
Registered User
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:32 am

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #113 by BCOWANWHEELS » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:42 pm

I don't like foreign made parts regardless where there made. U.S. FOR ME 100% no offence. and as useual juust basics from you nothing exactly specific.
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #114 by 69stang_250 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:02 am

Well the timing chain set has been done and we know how to do it due to the endeavors of mike and will.
If you would like one, I have a feeling you will have to buy a kit and mod it yourself or find someone to help. I'm not a huge fan of the stock timing chain set, but I do feel that it's still pretty beefy for the amount of power most people will be making with their engines. One other option, although I am not sure how hard this would be with the 250 gears, you could get the chain and grove the gears to match. However I am sure those gears are hardened and may not be that easy to machine. idk. But on the rocker arms, I enjoy learning and have no experience with them at all and it has kept my attention and made the wheels up stairs continue to turn. Most that have been chimming in I am sure are the same way. It's not to step on your toes or ride your coat tail. If that is how you feel I do appalogize.

In all honesty, I would absolutely love to take over the business that mike had, but I am in no situation to do so. I will say that down the road I Amy get into it at some point though.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
64falconsix
Registered User
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:24 am
Location: Daphne ,Al

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #115 by 64falconsix » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:04 am

Spoke with Hector at rocker arms unlimited Friday. .....he says he will have 1.6 and 1.7 ratio roller rockers ready in 6 to 8 weeks......no prices yet......
64 falcon 2dr 200 C.I. .040 decked ,comp. 260 .440, C.I. adjustable timing chain w/ 79 log head 52.cc , offy w/ triple webers , Clifford header , D.U.I. , C/4 2,200 stall , Transgo Stage 2 reprogramming kit , 7 1/4" with 3.20 gears. NX, N2O 75HP shot.

10.29@ 61.91 M.P.H. in the 1/8th mile. 4/12/13

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #116 by cr_bobcat » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:01 am

Allllriiight! I emailed him again yesterday about getting 840 shafts, undrilled, and the proper length for our six. Maybe we've all made enough noise for this option to be at least worth the R&D. They do this and I'll send all my buddies their way. :beer:
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #117 by 69stang_250 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:08 pm

Cr_bobcat

Man, I have a few questions for what you are doing.
What ratio are you going for?
If going with the .840 shaft, are you gonna drill out the pedestals?
Does going with that size shaft work with the VT Geom?
Have you figured out what the ratio would be by going with those rockers?
Do you need to trim some width off of the rocker? They are a little wider at the fulcrum point than the inline 6 rockers.

64 falconsix

Keep us up to date on those rockers. I think I would be all about getting some 1.7 rockers.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #118 by cr_bobcat » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:32 pm

I was going to just build my own pedestals. I would also grind the sides of the rockers to narrow them up. My goal is to not bush anything. Was going to just use square stock, drill the correct size holes for mounting screws and the shaft. Once I had one mounted i could doublecheck the geometry before drilling the correct through hole for the pedestal mount screw and again for the oiling holes for the rocker arms as it will all be different than the stock set up.

Edit: Ratio I want is 1.7. If it goes a little higher, so be it. My goal is 500 thou lift, based on the intake flow numbers quoted on the CI website for a modified large log. My cam has 0.294" lift at 264* duration. I don't want to jack the SCR up enough to deal with more duration, mostly because I'm not rebuilding the bottom end right now.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #119 by 69stang_250 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:42 pm

Ok I got ya. Was just curious. Once I get out of California I will have my garage back and be able to mess with this stuff more than what I can now.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #120 by 69stang_250 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:56 pm

Here is an idea.
Has anyone just thought about making a mounting plate, installing studs, and running high ratio rockers on that?
I know it will be a little costly, but may open the door for rocker options.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #121 by cr_bobcat » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:24 pm

That was one of the options I was considering. This is essentially how the YTA setup is built. I just don't have a stud mount sample to start with. They would be most likely sold as a set and I didn't want to be out a few hundred dollars if the math didn't work out. With the shaft mounted rocker approach, I'm so far out the $22 I spent for the 1 rocker in order to take measurements.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9809
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #122 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:39 pm

:shock: A shaft mounted rocker system is vastly superior for a performance engine build so you would be going backwards! :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #123 by cr_bobcat » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:48 pm

I've read that in a number of places. That's part of what was leading me down the path of using the slightly larger FE rocker shaft diameter. But I'll be honest, I really didn't want to have to bush 12 rockers and potentially the pedestals as well. My hope was to get away with only having to deal with building new pedestals without utilizing any bushings at all.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #124 by 69stang_250 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:56 pm

Bubba you are correct on that. I was just thinking of options and cost.
That is one thing I have always loved and hated about fords. Some their stuff was way over engineered
and superior in strength, but you pay out the rear to upgrade them lol!

One other option I have thought about is the Studebaker 289 rockers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVCX-w7NnW4

I am trying to find measurements for these and where to get them right now.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #125 by cr_bobcat » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:58 pm

Mockup pedestals could be 3D printed or made from some scrap wood from the garage. 4x4 that has been cut down to size and drilled could easily get me an initial model. Then I check the final dimensions, draw it, then trick someone into CNC'ing the final part. The "hard" part is the shafts. Those would have to be custom ordered to the right length and either ordered drilled by the vendor or it would have to be something I take to my buddy's house where he has a drill press.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

69stang_250
Registered User
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #126 by 69stang_250 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:04 pm

Dude! that is smart!
I will be getting a few blocks of wood to play around with now lol
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.80 gears, Eaton trutrack.

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #127 by Econoline » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:26 pm

You guy's are onto something. Why not use the FE rockers and find the shaft stock and make pedestals. Makes sense. Or maybe silicon bronze bush the right rockers and voila
It ain't gonna fix itself

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #128 by cr_bobcat » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Any werd from RAU on the 1.7 ratio progress? They stopped answering my emails. I somehow must have ticked them off or something. ...
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #129 by CNC-Dude » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:44 pm

I've mentioned before that designing and having an extrusion die made for these rockers would be easy and an economical way to produce these. Here is one I designed for the Slant 6 Chrysler engines a few years back. This can bring the cost per roller rocker down to about $20 each.





Image
Image

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 5285
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #130 by chad » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:08 pm

briefly-
what is the extrusion die (I know in plastics) process?
Thanks.

The one on those pictured is cast, hardened, then machined I'd assume...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #131 by wsa111 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:41 pm

I just spoke with Gary this afternoon from Rocker Arms Unlimited. rockerarms.com
He is in the process of ordering material to produce rocker arms.
I told him to go for 1.65-1.7 ratio.
Another thing i mentioned was he has to be price competitive with Yella-Terra full roller arms.
His feelings is he dislikes needle bearing rocker arm fulcrums for street use.
I told him he is mistaken in that opinion.
I also mentioned again he has to be price competitive or below Yella-Terra prices. He agreed.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6425CL & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

BCOWANWHEELS
Registered User
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:32 am

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #132 by BCOWANWHEELS » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:44 pm

IF YOU GO THAT HI OF RATIO YOU,LL NEED VALVE COVER SPACER OR TALL VALVE COVER WONT YOU .
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #133 by CNC-Dude » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:23 pm

chad wrote:briefly-
what is the extrusion die (I know in plastics) process?
Thanks.

The one on those pictured is cast, hardened, then machined I'd assume...


The die has the shape of the rocker profile and when the aluminum billet bar is heated, it is forced through the die at extreme pressure to form the shape of the profile as it comes out of the die and it still retains the same strength as the original billet it was made from. Virtually all aluminum roller rocker arm bodies have been made from the extrusion process for the last 30 years or so, so this isn't something that is new or unorthodox by any means. Crane, Crower, Isky, Comp Cams and all the alphabet name brand companies make theirs this way then and now.
Yes, it would still need minimal machining to finish into a completed part, but that's the beauty of the extrusion process, it eliminates a lot of machining time making the process faster and cheaper.

Here is what one looks like.
Image
Image

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 5285
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #134 by chad » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:55 pm

"...all the alphabet name brand companies make theirs this way…"
OK, seen a few of the dull grey - now I know -
that helps.
Thanks!

i can anneal & harden iron - can they do that w/alu? I mean harden it? I would think you would hafta to use as a rocker...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #135 by CNC-Dude » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:42 am

The dull grey ones your talking about are made from an entirely different process as well. I'm talking about the traditional Gold series anodized Crane roller rockers and others that are also anodized by the other companies. Yes, the heat treating is included as part of the extrusion process.
Image

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #136 by cr_bobcat » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:30 pm

I haven't seen him on here for a couple of years. Not sure what ended up going down.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #137 by xctasy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:31 am

cr_bobcat wrote:I haven't seen him on here for a couple of years. Not sure what ended up going down.



quote="BCOWANWHEELS"]since classic inlines is all but gone guess I,ll try to find out what was the intended application for the 1.65 rocker arms hopefully adjustable also who could make the aluminum roller rockers Harland sharp ? also does anybody know the pushrod length with the cupped end and its application. my engine is a 4.1 250. although I,am new to ford 6,s I already miss c/I business[/quote]

BCOWANWHEELS had a farm implement accident, but is back as of May 8, 2018. I think he rocks!

I'm glad he's back, I missed him.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

BCOWANWHEELS
Registered User
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:32 am

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #138 by BCOWANWHEELS » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:11 am

STILL TRYING TO GET BETTER GUYS, PRAY FOR ME.
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

User avatar
Invectivus
Registered User
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:41 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #139 by Invectivus » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:01 am

I've been looking at some different rockers, and I'm trying to see what I'm missing. I have a set of Yella Terra 1.65 ratio full roller adjustable rockers. They are virtually indistinguishable from 1.6 comp cams 5.0 v8 full roller rockers. If I drop a pin into the divot in the middle of the YT shaft, line it up with the dimple on the 1.6 5.0 shaft, they have virtually the same push rod cup distance and elevation, and roller tip distance. The YT have additional gusseting around the bottom, and a larger relief cut for the spring. But if the YT can use a 302 spring, and obviously so can the 5.0 rocker, I don't think the relief cut would be an issue.

The Comp Cams 1.72 BBF rocker has a longer nose.

I have a set of full roller FE rockers coming Friday, 1.76 adjustable. It seems that unless I'm missing something, using a YT style locating plate and pedestal system, or an FE style rocker shaft system, it's shouldn't be that hard?

I'm just not sure what I'm missing that has seemingly kept people from doing it yet.
1967 mustang coupe - 200ci, 69 dizzy, adjustable rockers, headers and dual exhaust, T5.

1964 convertible falcon - Gutted.

1973 EB Bronco - 302ci (sorry!) DUI ignition, C4/D20, Dana 44, 33's

Mayeul99
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #140 by Mayeul99 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:23 am

BCOWANWHEELS wrote:everybody except those who rebuild total stock engines wants custom rockers. I don't want to step on anybodys toes as CHRIST would not be in it . but I want 1.65 rockers that are adjustable preferably irn or Rachat de crédit meilleur taux crédit alum don't really matter also but I,ve brought serveral items into production for different applications for 3 decades. I,am retired now and really don't want to go thru this for several reasons but I,am gonna because I want a set for my engine. pushrods isn't a problem, hard chrome rocker shafts isn't a problem. theres gotta be a real close if not right on match to the rockers . example fe rockers,292-312 rockers etc. as far as cams if you,ve got a good core isky will regrind your to your spec,s and you,ll know your cam isn't china junk. that's my plan on it. I guess 255 pistons so I don't have to cut head or block down /or not as much.
bob

p/s always open to thoughts or suggestions and if anybody is going to buy this closed business out please contact me so I don't mess you up. ......


Hi i have been following your discussion and i would like to buy this business closed
and I have some questions to ask you in passing regarding this? thank you for your comeback

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5579
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #141 by Lazy JW » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:41 am

Mayeul99 wrote:
BCOWANWHEELS wrote:everybody except those who rebuild total stock engines wants custom rockers. I don't want to step on anybodys toes as CHRIST would not be in it . but I want 1.65 rockers that are adjustable preferably irn or Rachat de crédit meilleur taux crédit alum don't really matter also but I,ve brought serveral items into production for different applications for 3 decades. I,am retired now and really don't want to go thru this for several reasons but I,am gonna because I want a set for my engine. pushrods isn't a problem, hard chrome rocker shafts isn't a problem. theres gotta be a real close if not right on match to the rockers . example fe rockers,292-312 rockers etc. as far as cams if you,ve got a good core isky will regrind your to your spec,s and you,ll know your cam isn't china junk. that's my plan on it. I guess 255 pistons so I don't have to cut head or block down /or not as much.
bob

p/s always open to thoughts or suggestions and if anybody is going to buy this closed business out please contact me so I don't mess you up. ......


Hi i have been following your discussion and i would like to buy this business closed
and I have some questions to ask you in passing regarding this? thank you for your comeback


As moderator I am approving this post with some reservation; if it goes sideways appropriate action will be taken.
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

Sergeant82d
Registered User
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:41 pm

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #142 by Sergeant82d » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:46 pm

@ Invectivus - Any updates on the rocker situation? Have you (or anyone else) found the "magic bullet" that will give all of us an inch of valve lift, using stock springs, pistons, heads, etc., and flow 400 CFM? :D :shock: :beer:

Yeah...
Anyway - I really would like to know what you found out on the Comp Cams 1.72 BBF, the FE 1.76, and the 1.6 5.0... and if you know of an easy way to mount them (the YT plate/pedestal you mentioned, or something?)?

Thanks!!
Brad


Invectivus wrote:I've been looking at some different rockers, and I'm trying to see what I'm missing. I have a set of Yella Terra 1.65 ratio full roller adjustable rockers. They are virtually indistinguishable from 1.6 comp cams 5.0 v8 full roller rockers. If I drop a pin into the divot in the middle of the YT shaft, line it up with the dimple on the 1.6 5.0 shaft, they have virtually the same push rod cup distance and elevation, and roller tip distance. The YT have additional gusseting around the bottom, and a larger relief cut for the spring. But if the YT can use a 302 spring, and obviously so can the 5.0 rocker, I don't think the relief cut would be an issue.

The Comp Cams 1.72 BBF rocker has a longer nose.

I have a set of full roller FE rockers coming Friday, 1.76 adjustable. It seems that unless I'm missing something, using a YT style locating plate and pedestal system, or an FE style rocker shaft system, it's shouldn't be that hard?

I'm just not sure what I'm missing that has seemingly kept people from doing it yet.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 5285
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

our member's changes

Post #143 by chad » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:59 am

the guy's had some health issues Joe...
not sure where things R @ right now
:arrow:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #144 by wsa111 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:37 am

Sergeant82d wrote:@ Invectivus - Any updates on the rocker situation? Have you (or anyone else) found the "magic bullet" that will give all of us an inch of valve lift, using stock springs, pistons, heads, etc., and flow 400 CFM? :D :shock: :beer:

Yeah...
Anyway - I really would like to know what you found out on the Comp Cams 1.72 BBF, the FE 1.76, and the 1.6 5.0... and if you know of an easy way to mount them (the YT plate/pedestal you mentioned, or something?)?

Thanks!!
Brad


Invectivus wrote:I've been looking at some different rockers, and I'm trying to see what I'm missing. I have a set of Yella Terra 1.65 ratio full roller adjustable rockers. They are virtually indistinguishable from 1.6 comp cams 5.0 v8 full roller rockers. If I drop a pin into the divot in the middle of the YT shaft, line it up with the dimple on the 1.6 5.0 shaft, they have virtually the same push rod cup distance and elevation, and roller tip distance. The YT have additional gusseting around the bottom, and a larger relief cut for the spring. But if the YT can use a 302 spring, and obviously so can the 5.0 rocker, I don't think the relief cut would be an issue.

The Comp Cams 1.72 BBF rocker has a longer nose.

I have a set of full roller FE rockers coming Friday, 1.76 adjustable. It seems that unless I'm missing something, using a YT style locating plate and pedestal system, or an FE style rocker shaft system, it's shouldn't be that hard?

I'm just not sure what I'm missing that has seemingly kept people from doing it yet.

Forget about using stock springs or 302 springs on anything but a stock cam or a cam with stock rate of lift.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6425CL & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

Lucas Wilke motorsport
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:13 pm

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #145 by Lucas Wilke motorsport » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:54 am

Hi there!

My name is Lucas, I am from Argentina, I am new on forums. I didn´t know where to introduce me. But i make high performance billet steel rocker arms and support with cnc machines. We are a workshop special builders a manufactures in inline 6 engine, Ford 221, Chevrolet 250 and cherokee.

Here are some pics of my work

IMG_6237.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #146 by wsa111 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:19 pm

Lucas, on the small Ford Six 144,170,200 & 250 what ratio do you offer & the cost???
Post a link for your products.
Also call Matt @ vintageinlines.com he is our vendor for all Ford Six Parts.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6425CL & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 5285
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #147 by chad » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:04 pm

Lucas Wilke motorsport wrote:Hi there!
My name is Lucas, I am from Argentina, I am new on forums. I didn´t know where to introduce me. But i make high performance billet steel rocker arms and support with cnc machines. We are a workshop special builders a manufactures in inline 6 engine, Ford 221, Chevrolet 250 and cherokee.
Here are some pics of my work
IMG_6237.JPG

Our motors are a lill different.
R U interested in a local retailer (to here)?
(there are benifits to having an in-countey distributor as cross-international lines-fees build up quickly)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Lucas Wilke motorsport
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:13 pm

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #148 by Lucas Wilke motorsport » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:21 pm

First of all, i discover this forum because my father is building a Ford 300 engine and searching for info of the engine. We have a work shop that make parts and build six in line engine. The engines we build was for a racing cars like nascar, here in Argentina, it's call TC (turismo de carretera, means road tourism in spanish) it is the oldest association in the world, older than F1 and NASCAR. In 2015 the main organization (ACTC) order to make a new head cylinder of 24 valves aluminum made and they rule the engine and forced the pilots to buy them all the parts. So we started to make and build engine for regionals categories. They race with the ford 221 and the chevy 230. But it have a rules that limits the engine to be cheaper. So that's the main reason i make this rocker arms without roller and no light alloys. The rules doesn't allow it. But i have some to 3d cad models to make them of aluminum and with roller for high performance street cars and drag racing. I'm interested in selling them to USA or Australia or wherever they want. Here i sell them arround 650 U$$ but they are custom made. I never sold them outside Argentina. I can reduce the price if i make a mayor quantity. I made in 1.50, 1.55 and 1.65 ratios but i can reach 1.85 ratio. If i change the nose distance i can reach 2 or more ratio.

Here i add more pics attached:

One of the ford 221 and other 3 of the ford 300. I made it for a drag race car.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9809
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #149 by bubba22349 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:41 pm

Welcome to the Ford Six forums Lucas Wlke Motorsport, those are some great looking rocker arms. I am a fan of those Argentinean 221 racing six'es! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Sergeant82d
Registered User
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:41 pm

Re: high ratio rocker arms

Post #150 by Sergeant82d » Wed May 06, 2020 12:48 pm

I also say those are very nice rocker arms! I would be interested in a set for the 200 cid Ford straight six at your estimated price point.

Please tell us more! Do you and your family have a website or something so we can see more details?

Thank you
Brad

Return to “144-250 "Small Block" Six Performance”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests