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Engines out, what would you do??

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slimjimandtherats
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Engines out, what would you do??

Post #1 by slimjimandtherats » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:11 pm

K, so over the weekend, I found myself picking up a mighty fine 1980's 200cid engine. The gentleman was very helpful in tearing down the head and checking out the guts with me, and she checked out with flying colors. The heads look fantastic, as if a rebuild was in the very recent past.
I have several questions to be addressed after hunting around online for a while.
On a 300$ budget, what basic replacements/upgrades would you throw at the engine before dropping her in the wagon?
I like doing a thermostat, waterpump, timing chain set for kicks, since shes out and their relatively inexpensive for piece of mind. I was looking at taking a weekend and installing new freeze plugs for kicks as well.
As for upgrades, one of the biggest that people rave about seems to be a simple cam swap; which leads me to asking everyone out there to lend me their personal preference on a cam they've used and can recommend. The wagons currently running stock fordomatic and a 7" rear end[(unaware of the gear ratio)(with intentions of swapping to the c4/8")]. Exhaust is 6-2, running thrush packs. With this in mind, she'll be my daily driver, but I wouldn't mind a thumpy cam for mid rev hotrod pleasures :D I liked the summit kits which included new lifters and timing set with the comp cam. Between the two profiles offered in the kit (252/.425)(260/.440) I was leaning toward the more aggressive of the two. Once again, your experience is greatly appreciated.
My old 170cid motor had electronic ignition, so that will be swapped over.
As a side note, i have an adapter plate, and early 80's rochester 2v carb sitting in the shop that was removed from my 170. I didn't try too hard to tune the setup, and ultimately swapped over to a stock weber single barrel which eliminated all fuel deliver issues. I may fiddle with adapting this carb back on this motor in due time. Any suggestions here?
How would one determine if the head had been milled to accommodate for thicker headgaskets? The one we ripped off was a metal felpro (looked brand new) I'll try and get a part number and research the thickness of the gasket.
What year did they begin using hardened valve seats on the 200's?
Is there any other items about the later 200cid engines that'd be good information to know? From what I've seen, this blocks got the updated bellhousing bolt pattern to be easily modified to fit v8 pattern bellhousings, and the log intake is quite a bit bigger than my 1961's measly intake manifold.
So yeah, that's where i stand so far. More questions to come. Thanks in advance for all advice. And always, party on wayne. Cheers
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #2 by RichCreations » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:06 pm

I highly recommend calling schneider cams on the phone, talk to jerry, tell him what you have, how you want to drive it, and go with whatever he says... (the comp grinds for these engines are not really that great)

slimjimandtherats
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #3 by slimjimandtherats » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:09 pm

Rad, I did see reference to these guys. I'll give them a ring this coming week. Cheers
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #4 by B RON CO » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:51 pm

Hi, you should be able to see the seat inserts in a later head. CC the chambers to see how much you should mill. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #5 by slimjimandtherats » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:35 pm

rad, gracius. I'll take a measurement later this week. Cheers
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #6 by bubba22349 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:23 am

I think Ford started doing the flame hardened valve seats sometime in about 1972 or by 74. This is because the 1975 cars built for the Calif. market had to run on unleaded fuel. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am hunting for a cheap project car to build up. My Ex-Fleet of Sixes sadly these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #7 by CZLN6 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:56 am

Howdy Jim:

It's late so this will be short. If the '80 engine still has the DuraSpark II distributor definitely plan to use it.

More later, but I like what you're got so far.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #8 by xctasy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:49 am

slimjimandtherats wrote:K, so over the weekend, I found myself picking up a mighty fine 1980's 200cid engine. The gentleman was very helpful in tearing down the head and checking out the guts with me, and she checked out with flying colors. The heads look fantastic, as if a rebuild was in the very recent past.
I have several questions to be addressed after hunting around online for a while.
On a 300$ budget, what basic replacements/upgrades would you throw at the engine before dropping her in the wagon?
I like doing a thermostat, waterpump, timing chain set for kicks, since shes out and their relatively inexpensive for piece of mind. I was looking at taking a weekend and installing new freeze plugs for kicks as well.
As for upgrades, one of the biggest that people rave about seems to be a simple cam swap; which leads me to asking everyone out there to lend me their personal preference on a cam they've used and can recommend. The wagons currently running stock fordomatic and a 7" rear end[(unaware of the gear ratio)(with intentions of swapping to the c4/8")]. Exhaust is 6-2, running thrush packs. With this in mind, she'll be my daily driver, but I wouldn't mind a thumpy cam for mid rev hotrod pleasures :D I liked the summit kits which included new lifters and timing set with the comp cam. Between the two profiles offered in the kit (252/.425)(260/.440) I was leaning toward the more aggressive of the two. Once again, your experience is greatly appreciated.
My old 170cid motor had electronic ignition, so that will be swapped over.
As a side note, i have an adapter plate, and early 80's rochester 2v carb sitting in the shop that was removed from my 170. I didn't try too hard to tune the setup, and ultimately swapped over to a stock weber single barrel which eliminated all fuel deliver issues. I may fiddle with adapting this carb back on this motor in due time. Any suggestions here?
How would one determine if the head had been milled to accommodate for thicker headgaskets? The one we ripped off was a metal felpro (looked brand new) I'll try and get a part number and research the thickness of the gasket.
What year did they begin using hardened valve seats on the 200's?
Is there any other items about the later 200cid engines that'd be good information to know? From what I've seen, this blocks got the updated bellhousing bolt pattern to be easily modified to fit v8 pattern bellhousings, and the log intake is quite a bit bigger than my 1961's measly intake manifold.
So yeah, that's where i stand so far. More questions to come. Thanks in advance for all advice. And always, party on wayne. Cheers


78-s to 83's had Cast iron rods...replace them with forged steel 170 rods before you go turning it into a pro streeter.

Later model baffeled Rocker cover baffels hit any adjustable valve gear you might use.

24 Hour of Lemonz Parkwood60 proved the worth of the Rochester 2CG.

Image

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... tura/page3

This is yours, ripped from your cool video.
Image
Image

What size carb is it?


Here below is 's what I'm using on mine. Does your 2GC have any problems at all with fuel surge?


Mine is similar to the http://carbkitsource.com/carbs/kits/CK067.htm replacment listing, with top casting 7044114 130 4 - CM and bottom casting P-7046452 C-1. Not specifically listed on The Carby Dr's site, and it has a front fuel line, not side like your little gem.


xctasy wrote:I'm avoiding the big long range tank just now. I joined an Ecomodder site, and have decided to bring up the fuel economy first, keeping the car as close to stock as a person can. Given its historicala nd truly odd ball JDM status and its value and its numbers match food chain position on the Fox family tree, I owe it to myself and others here to work with the orginal parts. Where I draw the line is with carbs, cam and tunining, for everyone in the past, from Holman Moody to Offenhauser, from Vic Edelbrock to Ak Millar enterpises, has had a go at Triple Carb economy Falcons and Mustang sixes, but they dropped the ball when the little I6 Foxes came out. And thats why the 2.3 and 5.0 and latter Essex and Cologne V6's survived, and the I6 didn't. It was too hard to hi po this ancient engine without a full head redesign, and Ford, probably wisely, spent the extra dough on better engines. Where I come in is that I'm stuck with the log, and I gotta just make it work within the confines of my budget and purpose.


In line with that, I've been busy cleaning up my triple carb Rochester 2 jet carburation system for attaching to my 170 cylinder head. I'm using the common 7014114 130 4 - CM and P-7046452 C-1 code 2 Jet Rochester body 352 cfm carb,

Image

Image

Its a nice sized carb, good for independent runner induction, with 500 CFM Holley 2-bbl 4412 sized throttles at 1-11/16-in. bores, or 1.6875" or 42.8625 mm, and the same throttle center spacings as the bigger Holley 2-bbls (1.875" or 47.625 mm), but nice, small 1-3/16-in. venturis (30.16 mm) for that 352cfm at 3.0"Hg in each.

Image


Where it is heaps better than the good old 2100 Autolite /2150/Motorcraft and the Holley 2-bbl 7448/4412 part number 2300 series is for its four bolt clamping spacings, for even though mine is a wide base 2.0" by 3.75", its got heaps of room around it to mount in the confines of the awkward 200/3.3 log heads iron dog turd.

Once I've got these jetted down to the right level, I'll get the economy and power I'm looking for, and I'll be able to fit a stock Tripower air cleaner on it to ensure I can run it as an CAFE/CARB/EPA emission era system with all the stock interconnects.


Low mount bell was a C5 transmission only , and not many 81, 82 or 83's had it...most were high mount's with the imported French C3 auto. A percentage were high mount stick shifts for 1980 to 1982 in Foxes.

Grey = Low Mount
Blue = High mount

But most everyone paints these engines red or black or blue if they are grey, so you do have to look at the stock trans.

If the rocker cover number tells you c232ab it is likely to be X code 1983 low mount. But people do change rocker covers, carbs, gearboxes, paint engines, and don't tell you what year and modle car it came out of, so 3.3's are a real lottery...

An enjoyable one!
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #9 by drag-200stang » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:57 am

X, I think you hit C2-- instead of E2.
66 Mustang Coupe
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #10 by CZLN6 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:17 pm

Howdy Back Jim:

As long as the head is off to measure chamber volume, I recommend that you disassemble one chambers valve assembly to check the quality of the valve seat. The stock, OEM valve seat was a one 45 degree valve seat and valve face. If that's what you've got, I'd recommend that you invest in a more performance oriented three angle valve seat along with a 30 degree top cut on the intake valves. That is called a back-cut. This machining will increase low lift flow noticeably. FYI, the stock 1980 head has about 62 ccs of volume. Any amount less than that will be an indication that the head has been milled. This is also the time to assess your CR goal and plan for a mill cut if necessary. What is your CR goal?

With the head off, disassembling the valves, recutting the seats and putting a back-cut on the intakes, and milling to goal CR should not be too expensive, but shop around for the beat quality and price.

Another carry-over might be the adjustable rocker arms and pushrods from the original 170. They are a direct bolt-on. But make sure that they are thoroughly cleaned, inside and out. Especially the inside of the rocker shaft. Use the later engines stanchion tapered bolts to remount the rocker assembly. The adjustability will allow you to compensate for machining and to get the most out of whatever cam you go with. The '80 rocker arm cover is a keeper too. It may take some careful adjusting on assembly to clear the adjustable rockers.

You mentioned "wagon" in your original post. What vehicle is this going in? What year? How will this engine/vehicle be used? You mentioned "daily driver". Is that a highway commuter? A shop truck? or what? What rear gear is in the 8"? This is all information that will be needed to accurately choose an appropriate cam for you. FYI- The C4 will like a cam with pretty good vacuum.

A valve job gasket kit is a good value. It will also include new valve seals. Shimming the stock valve springs .030" is a cheap upgrade also.

$300 budget isn't going to go too far so plan carefully, reuse when possible and spend wisely. And keep us informed on your choices. Good luck.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #11 by woodbutcher » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:07 pm

:hmmm: Hi Bubba.IIRC the valve seats were induction hardened not flame hardened.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #12 by rbohm » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:33 pm

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy Back Jim:

As long as the head is off to measure chamber volume, I recommend that you disassemble one chambers valve assembly to check the quality of the valve seat. The stock, OEM valve seat was a one 45 degree valve seat and valve face. If that's what you've got, I'd recommend that you invest in a more performance oriented three angle valve seat along with a 30 degree top cut on the intake valves. That is called a back-cut. This machining will increase low lift flow noticeably. FYI, the stock 1980 head has about 62 ccs of volume. Any amount less than that will be an indication that the head has been milled. This is also the time to assess your CR goal and plan for a mill cut if necessary. What is your CR goal?

With the head off, disassembling the valves, recutting the seats and putting a back-cut on the intakes, and milling to goal CR should not be too expensive, but shop around for the beat quality and price.

Another carry-over might be the adjustable rocker arms and pushrods from the original 170. They are a direct bolt-on. But make sure that they are thoroughly cleaned, inside and out. Especially the inside of the rocker shaft. Use the later engines stanchion tapered bolts to remount the rocker assembly. The adjustability will allow you to compensate for machining and to get the most out of whatever cam you go with. The '80 rocker arm cover is a keeper too. It may take some careful adjusting on assembly to clear the adjustable rockers.

You mentioned "wagon" in your original post. What vehicle is this going in? What year? How will this engine/vehicle be used? You mentioned "daily driver". Is that a highway commuter? A shop truck? or what? What rear gear is in the 8"? This is all information that will be needed to accurately choose an appropriate cam for you. FYI- The C4 will like a cam with pretty good vacuum.

A valve job gasket kit is a good value. It will also include new valve seals. Shimming the stock valve springs .030" is a cheap upgrade also.

$300 budget isn't going to go too far so plan carefully, reuse when possible and spend wisely. And keep us informed on your choices. Good luck.

Adios, David


jim, david gave you a lot of great advice, heed the highlighted portion carefully. i would first make sure everything is up to par before adding any performance parts or any "bling" to the engine. even though the engine might have been through a rebuild recently, i would put in a fresh set of rings and bearings to avoid any issues. once that is done, and you are ready for add ons, like the cam, choose carefully. look at cams that are designed for the 1000-5000 rpm range for a solid street engine.
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #13 by slimjimandtherats » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:27 am

Just to clear the waters, this will be my first build. I usually take some time to reply back cause i like to research whats been thrown up on the page before asking basic questions.
Will do! Thanks for the thorough run through CZLN6.
I like that train of thought of doing simple refreshing of gaskets, bearings, and rings. And back cutting the valves sounds like a quick and dirty way of increasing airflow!! Too rad.
As for CR...unkown. If the milling has been done to the head, then I will confirm the cr and move on with no change in that category. On the other hand, if i need to mill down the head to account for the new head gasket, I'll take a walk down that road. Any pointers on that subject?
As for the the rocker arms and pushrod assembly, I'll have to double check the condition of the rocker arm faces. I believe those might be on their last leg.
Rad, as far as the cam goes, I'll just have to wait n see. Until i get the trans/rearend, i won't have a clue how to answer those questions.
The ignition is not of the duraspark type


So the list of to do for the time being is
1) find cc's of head to determine whether the heads been milled
2) back-cut intake valves
3) order up gasket set, std rings, bearings and valve shims
4)
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #14 by slimjimandtherats » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:37 am

And to answer xctasy's question, im not sure of the old rochester carb size. I tossed her in the garage and havn't taken the time with her. If it is of any information, the accelerator pump on mine had the 21/32 rubber cup. Cheers
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #15 by xctasy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:38 am

drag-200stang wrote:X, I think you hit C2-- instead of E2.



Nup, Just Missed a Jay


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #16 by cobraguy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:07 pm

Doing the 3 items you mention in your last post will pretty much use up your $300 budget.
You say the 170 has electronic Ignition. I assume pertronix. An 80s 200 will work better with the DS II setup.
You say its a 61 ? wagon, again assuming Falcon, with a fordomatic. Is it a running driving car. If it is I'd leave it so and save my pennies to do the whole drive train at one time. Sure get the engine ready then find a C4 to stick behind it. I used an 8" from a V8 MustangII in my 62, I had to change the spring mounts but that was easier than narrowing. You'll need a driveshaft also.
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #17 by CZLN6 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:29 pm

Howdy Again Jim and All:

It sounds like we are overwhelming you. Sorry. I've found that one of the best way to go, on the cheap, is to clean and reuse as much as you can. If money is no object then throw it at it. No need to replace the timing set or water pump unless it need it.

Inspect the adjustable rocker arm set for wear. Oil flows to the front rockers last so check them carefully for wear. These early rocker arm assembly are heck for stout. If wear patterns are acceptable clean thoroughly and plan to use. If you're not going to use them list them in the classified section for resale to add a few dollars to your build fund.

Have you verified with casting numbers that this is an 80's engine? All '80s small six engines had a Dura Spark II ignition system. Was the distributor with the engine? Your old, I'm assuming a Load-O-Matic type distributor, even with an Ignitor, will need a carb with a Spark Control Valve (SCV) to function properly. It is vacuum advance only. The DS II ignition system, with both vacuum and centrifugal advance is the way to go.

IIWIYS- I'd offer up for sale any parts of the old engine/ trans on the classified section. Then I'd focus on the 80's head, as described earlier. FYI- a valve job gasket kit runs around $50. It will include a head gasket, valve stem seals and a bunch of other gaskets. Once that is done, I'd assess the block starting with the cam timing set and the top cylinder ridge. Depending on that assessment, I'd proceed from there.

Take your time understanding what's what and don't hesitate to ask questions. There is lots of help here.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #18 by OpelGT+3point3 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:02 pm

Pics won't load. R u trying to bolt a low mount starter block up to a fordomatic two speed?

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #19 by xctasy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:05 pm

OpelGT+3point3 wrote:Pics won't load. R u trying to bolt a low mount starter block up to a fordomatic two speed?



Like they say, chance is a very fine thang...


Due to all the emission shite and some of the too general information "out there", most people think they have a low mount block if its 1980 to 1983. Only some automatics were low mount, but a he|| of a lot were stick shift, and C4 and C3 auto, in which case its high mount.

Due to the emissions lines, unless you have one to compare to, a newby Small Sixer cant really tell unless you use Lincs200 photos to compare...

Low mount
Image


High mount
Image


I seriously doubt its low mount...but I ve been wrong before....
Last edited by xctasy on Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #20 by xctasy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:46 pm

Quite often, an 80 to 83 200 I6 engine that may be low mount will be out of the original vehicle, and maybee repainted for a quick sale....So Question 2, block casting, is the way to answer the low/ high mount question. The later 80-83's have a huge primary light off cat, and they prevent seeing the block numbers easily.


See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... raight-six

When first produced for 1981, 1982, and 1983, they were color coded the engines. None were unpainted.

Image

Question 1.

Orginally Blue engine with blue rocker cover and an id no

OR

Grey engine and rocker cover with another number?.

What color rocker cover, what engine id code.


If its Orginally grey, its low mount.

If its Orginally blue, high mount

Question 2.

The block will still be D8 BE 6015 xx for early 1981,
then they went to E1 BE 6015 xx for all high mounts

E1 BB 6015 for all low mounts.

Is it a, b or c?

Question 3. If the engine is still in the car....

Check your door tag...it will have a BV code for trans if its a C3, which automatically makes it a high mount 3.3

C4 or the lock-up clutch C5, had another code. The 1981's still had a non lock-up clutch C4 3.3 option, which is high mount.

The low mounts had a big bell lock-up clutch C4 or C5.

Question 4. Is the starter like the red rocker, black block engine?

Or the grey engine like blake4591 or Lincs200

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?136992-82-cougar-project

[QUOTE=blake4591;1445921]Yeah the Inline is the low mount gray CJ232 motor. I'm assuming it is a C5 since it looks the same as a C4 but is the same length as a T5 and it is a 7.5" 2.73 ratio diff.

I've read over that thread https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24859

Image

before and was close to putting a turbo on it but decided not to bother with the old inline mostly because I hated the automatic (WOT shifts where 3900 rpm)

I'm planning on keeping the bench for now test of the trans looks like there is enough room at least.[/QUOTE]


Or is it like user BTD's or my xctasy engine, and blue and high mount?

Image

And Question No 5

If still in the orginal car...

Check

Buck Code Details
Image


BV A H JPN
L P U 1B
15R 99D

French Bordeux C3 "BV" code trans


Always a blue, high mount engine block, without exceptions
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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lahti35
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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #21 by lahti35 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:51 pm

Just brought home an '83 200 myself... Grey, C3 tranny, low mount starter. I was hoping it was a high mount... I could have used this thread earlier! At least I can still put the head to good use.

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #22 by xctasy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:04 pm

lahti35 wrote:Just brought home an '83 200 myself... Grey, C3 tranny, low mount starter. I was hoping it was a high mount... I could have used this thread earlier! At least I can still put the head to good use.


Its Amercian, freedom ensures that its gonna get complicated only if you loose your lanuage....you stop talking about it, you loose it...

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCCGsAKt58 (Wakapedia, a song about when you loose your mother tongue)

It won't be a low mount C3...all Bordeux French trans were blue high mount engine blocks like this...even until the very last June 1983 3.3 X code Ford LTD of 1983, which still had a painted engine, and Proof of the concurancy of the two blocks in the early 80's is this:-

10
E1BE
6015FA

block casting.

Image





lahti35, it'll be a low mount C5 like these repainted engines, which only ever got one gearbox, the C5 lock-up clutch auto. , and the similar to it C4 was always a high mount.

Image

Check for the CJ232AB front rocker decal, should be gray colored rocker and block.

ImageImage


Like Lincs 200's Grey transmission in the post.

Linc's 200 wrote:Downpipe near trans bell, multiple compound angles not noticable (starter is in a bad place!!)

Image

another angle of downpipe separation flange, near trans bell:

Image

.........



I wouldn't recomend a low mount on a pre mid year 62 unibody Ford, but...you can easily clearance it if you have to.

Here's how...


I'd still say you can use it, you just have to clearance the early firewall sheet metal. You drop the engine, and clear the carpet and make sure your sealant doesn't go on fire by having a CO2 extingisher at hand. Then go to it!, and grab a sledge hammer, propane torch, and heat and bend untill its clear. Sand back, Etch rpime, and POR15, then repaint. The steering arm can be easily flipped at the same time.

Its best not to use the low mount, but it doesn't mean you can't. If the engines out, you can make room for the huge 164 teeth bellhousing low mount gear box.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #23 by slimjimandtherats » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:18 pm

Image


Image

Image

Image
Last edited by slimjimandtherats on Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #24 by Econoline » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:07 pm

:beer:

High mount block, 80 head

What is this going in jim?
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #25 by slimjimandtherats » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:14 pm

I decided to just throw up some pictures to clear up any questions/confusion. According to the fordsix 200cid casting numbers page, the block is of the '75-80 type, and the head is of the '81-83. Seems a lil confusing, but the colors match. Doesn't mean the head is original.
As for transmission, the falcon currently has the 2 spd. I'd like to eventually swap over to the c4. will there an issue mounting the 2spd to the 200cid?
That's what i've got right now. I took the head down to a gentleman's place that'll be doing the work and was told it had not been through the mill ever. So this takes me down the road of milling the head to boost CR, and swapping the rocker arms over to my 170cid adjustable ones. I'll check up on the faces of the rockers, and see if that's even in my cards.
1961 Ford Falcon
Party on wayne
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #26 by slimjimandtherats » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:39 pm

And I'm gonna venture to say the distributor is pretty darn similar to whats running on my 170. The cap resembles whats already on mine. Am i correct to say the top is the duraspark, cause the bottoms mine. Cheers

Image

Image
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #27 by lahti35 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:00 am

xctasy wrote:
lahti35 wrote:Just brought home an '83 200 myself... Grey, C3 tranny, low mount starter. I was hoping it was a high mount... I could have used this thread earlier! At least I can still put the head to good use.


Its Amercian, freedom ensures that its gonna get complicated only if you loose your lanuage....you stop talking about it, you loose it...

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCCGsAKt58 (Wakapedia, a song about when you loose your mother tongue)

It won't be a low mount C3...all Bordeux French trans were blue high mount engine blocks like this...even until the very last June 1983 3.3 X code Ford LTD of 1983, which still had a painted engine, and Proof of the concurancy of the two blocks in the early 80's is this:-

10
E1BE
6015FA

block casting.

Image





lahti35, it'll be a low mount C5 like these repainted engines, which only ever got one gearbox, the C5 lock-up clutch auto. , and the similar to it C4 was always a high mount.

Image

Check for the CJ232AB front rocker decal, should be gray colored rocker and block.

ImageImage


Like Lincs 200's Grey transmission in the post.

Linc's 200 wrote:Downpipe near trans bell, multiple compound angles not noticable (starter is in a bad place!!)

Image

another angle of downpipe separation flange, near trans bell:

Image

.........



I wouldn't recomend a low mount on a pre mid year 62 unibody Ford, but...you can easily clearance it if you have to.

Here's how...


I'd still say you can use it, you just have to clearance the early firewall sheet metal. You drop the engine, and clear the carpet and make sure your sealant doesn't go on fire by having a CO2 extingisher at hand. Then go to it!, and grab a sledge hammer, propane torch, and heat and bend untill its clear. Sand back, Etch rpime, and POR15, then repaint. The steering arm can be easily flipped at the same time.

Its best not to use the low mount, but it doesn't mean you can't. If the engines out, you can make room for the huge 164 teeth bellhousing low mount gear box.



Its actually for a '64 falcon wagon I just picked up... I've got a 250/toploader 3 speed going into the '61.

I'm not going to try and make it fit in the '64... I'm going to pick up a nice running '66 200 with a C4 Saturday that will drop right in. I'll steal the large log head off the '83 for a swap onto the 200 at a later date after I get it all running.

Great info on the high/low mount tranny combo's... gets confusing with all the changes made to these engines over the years.

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #28 by chad » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:31 am

"...head off the '83 for a swap onto the 200 at a later date…"
Do U still have that clay spor U made an adapter from a yr or so ago?
Will U need that again?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #29 by lahti35 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:18 pm

chad wrote:"...head off the '83 for a swap onto the 200 at a later date…"
Do U still have that clay spor U made an adapter from a yr or so ago?
Will U need that again?


Not sure what a clay spor is?

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #30 by Econoline » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:21 pm

slimjimandtherats wrote:And I'm gonna venture to say the distributor is pretty darn similar to whats running on my 170. The cap resembles whats already on mine. Am i correct to say the top is the duraspark, cause the bottoms mine. Cheers


Yeah, it's got a points distributor, you're going to want to upgrade that to a DSII
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #31 by CZLN6 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:28 am

HOwdy:

The distributor in the photo is a Load-O-Matic.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #32 by slimjimandtherats » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:25 am

Any chance of just re-purposing the pertronix load o matic i've got in the falcon already? Secondly, is there a year range i would have to stick with to run the durasparkII? I'm leaning toward keeping the distributor for now and searching the junk yards at a later date (que joy division background music). Thirdly, is the distributor model specific? Could i swap the a 250cid distributor in its place? cheers, party on
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #33 by Econoline » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:41 am

200 or 250 use the same dist. You could use a LoM distributor, but it's not going to work right, or at least as designed, with any carb that bolts to that head afaik. Unless maybe a 240 LoM carb??? You could use a later points, non LoM distributor with your pertronix. I have a nice one I'd sell cheap I pulled from my 70 250 if you're interested. It a 2 port vacuum type, but I don't think that matters, just use the advance port I think.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #34 by slimjimandtherats » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:07 am

Image

Image

Image

Is this a thing? this autolite 1100 carb doesn't have vent valve/rod like most that i see on the market. It's been plugged with a red stopper and is missing the rod assembly all together. it only has one of the two pumps i see on most. It has the pump lever assembly, and not the dashpot and lever like i see on the rebuild schematics. Just curious. Cheers

Heres the schematics via mikes carbs
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/assets/ ... s/K436.pdf
:beer:

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #35 by Econoline » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:59 pm

The 1100 on my 170 is like that, except the plug is aluminum and was driven in. I replaced that plug when I rebuilt it iirc, it came in the kit.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Engines out - machine/cam/carb/DSII dizzy

Post #36 by chad » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Looks like you'll hafta rebuild that carb.
I'm thinkin if U want a lill pep, reliability, economy, & available prts Y not go to the non-LOM/SCV system & use DS II?
Classic Inlines archive (here @ the Index page) & the "Handbook" (20 $ frm Matt @ VintageInlines) will bring U far in this process.
After a ck w/1 or each you'll have the knowledge to ask the pertinant Qs for ur individual and specific build.
Again, just ME thinkin (U did ask)...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Engines out, what would you do??

Post #37 by CZLN6 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:05 pm

Howdy Jim:

The carb in the photo is likely an 1100 from a 1964 170 or 200 with a manual trans. If the tag can be believed? Only one dashpot means manual trans. The only way to tell if its from a 170 or 200 is to measure the inner diameter of the venturi on the inside.

The plug is access to another floor bowl vent that is throttle accuated.

The early, 1963& 64 1101s used on cars with a 223 six will work with your LoM and Petronix Ignitor. More flow with a 210 cfm rating.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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