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Carter BBD

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Econoline
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Carter BBD

Post #1 by Econoline » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:51 pm

Recently 63falcon4drwagon wrote:

"I just installed a China made $72.00 Carter BBD lowtop 285 cfm two barrel on my large log 1978 200 head.
Both the cable throttle and cable C4 kickdown cable are connected to the gas pedal under the dash.
I welded an arm on to the carb choke linkage to use my stock 1963 choke cable.
The Carter BBD has 1 1/4" throttle bores which are closely spaced making it an easier conversion than a Holley or Autolite.
The adapter I was made from 1" x4" x 6" aluminum.
The carb has to be turned at an angle which turned out great for my 1978 Fairmont cable throttle linkage modifications
I had to raise the carb higher to clear the valve cover so I made an 1/2" red oak carb spacer out of two pieces of 1/4" oak fiberglassed together.
These Chinese carbs don't come with an air cleaner hold down bracket. I had to make one.
I have the stock 1963 Falcon air cleaner modified to fit this carb.
The 1" aluminum is easy to drill and to cut with a router bit.
After drilling 3 pilot holes my tiny drill press would not cut a 1 3/4" hole saw so I used a heavy duty 1/2" hand drill.
The intake and adapter is hogged out so this adapter is not some silly funnel setup.

It seems to be all the carb or more than this stock engine needs. I was building the adapter for another engine I'm rebuilding but decided to try it on the engine already in my Falcon. I enlarged the intake after stuffing rags and grease in the log. I think the Sniper would work at an angle. The angled stud holes on the intake need to go between the outer carb mount holes when making a one piece adapter. This puts the carb at an angle. My cable throttle would not have been long enough if not angled.
273 ~ {1964 thru 1969} Carter BBD {1.437" Throttle Plates x 1.063" Venturi}.......... 275 CFM Rating
318 ~ {1968 and up} Carter BBD {1.437" Throttle Plates x 1.186 Venturi}............ 285 CFM Rating
383 ~ {1962 thru 1971} Carter BBD {1.563" Throttle Plates x 1.313" Venturi}.......... 365 CFM Rating"

Image

I got that image to print at scale by enlarging it 116% in my printer dialog.

The maximum BBD bore opening is around 1 9/16" x 3" vs 1 11/16" x 3 9/16" for the 2300 and a pad size of 4" vs 5 1/8". It can flow more than most of us will ever need. Holley claims their Sniper version can support up to 350HP.

63falcon4drwagon mounted one directly to his head by shifting it inline with the bolt holes for the bore to fit in between them on the stock carb pad. I'd love to see some pictures of that set up showing the linkage and clearance to the valve cover. I'm fascinated by this carb b/c of it's footprint mostly but it has an interesting history and the fact that holley released the sniper bbd puts it right into the wheelhouse of what I want to do for my van.

Looking at the stock lrg log head this carb will mount onto the length of the stock carb pad along the log. I'm thinking mill it flat, bore it out and make a simple adapter to bolt it to the log with studs for the carb and never hardly get outside of the length of the stock mount on the log. It looks like it aligns best with the log if the outer edge of the bore aligns to the outer edge of the 1 3/4" bore on the log. Iow, aligning the bbd's inboard pad side to the long flat inboard edge of the stock carb pad. And that keeps it as far away from the valve cover as practical. The question is how high it needs to be to clear the valve cover and which orientation best suits it and the fuel lines and linkage.





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2v direct mount - Carter BBD

Post #2 by chad » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:29 pm

this is different than the 'phase 2' I thought U were goin with? (efi)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

63falcon4drwagon
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #3 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:50 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

63falcon4drwagon
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #4 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:21 am

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #5 by Econoline » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Unfortunately that won't work for me. I have to keep the top at or below 6" from the top of the log to fit inside of the doghouse. That's 6" from the surface of the actual log near the carb mount pad, not the carb mount. 1 1/2" from the carb mount would put me more than 5/8" too high.

My idea to lower the carb after looking at it this morning is to mill the pad off. Mount it as shown in my pic but use a 1" piece of aluminum and cut the throttle bore @ 22.5* through the adapter giving me a 3/8" offset and a clearance of 1 5/8" from the edge of the bbd gasket to the valve cover. This would keep the carb at or below where my YFA is now, which is as high as will fit.

Chad, this is phase 2. I was looking into fitech and holley sniper efi's and I like the features of the sniper better. Holley has more robust software to better tune by giving you a PC program to do more advanced tuning. I'm liking this path better than my original plan to go with GM tbi and I think it will be cheaper to do easily. If I can adapt a BBD carb to my engine I can put a Sniper BBD on there :twisted:
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #6 by bmbm40 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:13 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:I would not mill the log!
This log carb opening area is larger area of both throttle bores of a BBD.
The BBD venturi is smaller than the bore size. Make it simple.


I was vaguely aware of the BBD carb at one time but had pretty much forgotten about it. It is a good low cost 2v carb for most Ford six owners it seems. These pics show how to do it and this is the kind of value engineering that appeals to me. Might work on my Bronco.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 2v, power brakes, rear LS, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #7 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 pm

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:50 am

:hmmm: what about turning the carb 180 degrees? This would also give a better flow through the throdle blades i.e. A more direct shot. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #9 by Econoline » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:21 am

180* around won't work. There's too much carb on that side. It's got to be mounted with the linkage on the fwd side. 90* on a 2v or aluminum head. Seems like having it skewed in between the studs may be good wide distribution though w/the log. I don't know.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #10 by Econoline » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:32 am

63falcon4drwagon wrote:
Econoline wrote:Unfortunately that won't work for me. I have to keep the top at or below 6" from the top of the log to fit inside of the doghouse. That's 6" from the surface of the actual log near the carb mount pad, not the carb mount. 1 1/2" from the carb mount would put me more than 5/8" too high.

If you can get the throttle body turned straight the valve cover clearance should increase. I may have been able to go with just the one inch spacer if I banged in or modified the valve cover for long idle speed and choke fast idle speed screw clearance. This is what I did on a bench mock up. I didn't want to bang in or modify my 1965 valve cover. I did dimple it in two spots and shorten the screws.
The Sniper throttle body does not have the long idle speed or choke fast idle speed screws that hit the valve cover.


That's good to hear. From what I could tell I needed 1" to the valve cover to clear the vacuum stubs and another 1/2" to get a hose on.

Thank you for the pictures. I love it. Weren't you talking about the relationship between cfm and diameter recently? Like we could enlarge it a 1/4" easy and it would flow x much better and leave at least 3/16" for the gasket, go as far as we can.. Was that you?
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #11 by 63falcon4drwagon » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:12 pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #12 by Econoline » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:22 pm

I've been thinking about this and looking at what you've done. I'm considering buying one of these carbs or finding a junk carb and looking at the clearance issues with my cracked head. And look at opening it up like you did on the stock carb pad and see if I can orient it to clear everything with lower spacing. It looks like I can use the stock fwd carb stud for the bbd and have room to install a machine screw in the other hole to secure the adapter and still have just enough space to have a stud in the adapter for the bolt very near that hole. It would offset the carb aft slightly. If so, then funnel/transition the carb bore into the opened up newly odd shaped bore of the stock carb pad with a 3/4 - 1" adapter. If it works I'll figure out the linkage and do like you did and not mill the head and do it in place. As far as the Sniper flow goes, there are no venturi's being efi, and the throttle bore's are 1 3/8" from what I can tell. I will ask them about the flow before purchase. Right now I'd just like to get a 2v on there and be ready for the swap when I can afford it and have time to do the fuel system mods.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #13 by wsa111 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:07 pm

Good luck another piece of chinese junk. Where would you get parts for this thing??
Do it right and install a Holley 350 on there.
Parts are no problem & an automatic choke is available.
The Autolite is also an excellent choice.
Again parts are readily available.
Another plus is the help from our members of this forum on both of those carbs.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6425CL & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #14 by Econoline » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:56 am

Where's the fun in that Bill? ;) Next thing you know I'll be putting a sbc crate engine in lol.

Kidding aside I know what you're saying. For me half the fun is macgyvering these things and another 75-100 cfms is good step up in flow over the YFA for $70 and little work. I'm sure it's hit and miss but a year and a half later my $70 Chinese YFA clone is still running like champ. If I figure 75-80% ve, 255 cu inches, and a 5000 rpm redline I'm around 300-325 cfm's, I never spin it up to 5000 though. I'll bet the TBI version flows at least 400. Btw, the throttle bore on these is 1 7/16"
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #15 by wsa111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Econoline wrote:Where's the fun in that Bill? ;) Next thing you know I'll be putting a sbc crate engine in lol.

Kidding aside I know what you're saying. For me half the fun is macgyvering these things and another 75-100 cfms is good step up in flow over the YFA for $70 and little work. I'm sure it's hit and miss but a year and a half later my $70 Chinese YFA clone is still running like champ. If I figure 75-80% ve, 255 cu inches, and a 5000 rpm redline I'm around 300-325 cfm's, I never spin it up to 5000 though. I'll bet the TBI version flows at least 400. Btw, the throttle bore on these is 1 7/16"

Thats true. I would like to see an A/F test done with a wide-band.
I wonder what jets it comes with???
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6425CL & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #16 by bmbm40 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:06 pm

I saw a couple of Carter BBD on Ebay that were sold as cores. One was priced low that I recall maybe around $30? Could probably get parts for that but hard to know exactly what you are getting buying used carbs.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 2v, power brakes, rear LS, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #17 by Econoline » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:47 pm

I was thinking of going out to the local yard and seeing if they had one laying around for cheap or an old jeep or whatever. Yeah the jetting could be a big problem, I doubt they are available and if you're buying a carb for a 318 that flows ~280 cfms it might run rich. On the other hand if the Chinese carbs sold for the 258's have the larger 318 venturi's but are jetted down it could be workable. You can always make them bigger. Actually I've soldered jet's and redrilled them to. It's less than ideal. But with a little care and a good numbered drill set it's doable.

Ultimately I like the idea of a 285 cfm carb that can be adapted to mount on the stock carb mount and I'm going to tbi so all the jetting stuff and the venturi cfm rating is going to be in the rear view mirror eventually.

When I re-did my exhaust last summer I welded a bung in for an O2 sensor. If I mount one of these carbs I'll hook it up with a sensor and a gauge.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #18 by 63falcon4drwagon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:22 am

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #19 by 63falcon4drwagon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:20 pm

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Carter BBD

Post #20 by chad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:40 pm

seekin the highest 1v tq monster available.
Will B tryin the RBS (just cuz I got it & is v e r y low to clear hood) in a mo or so...

Isnt the BBD a 2V?

Monojet looks good but too hi & won't mount my "M" 250 head, eh? 3, 400 bucks?
I like'n C the ele choke, the cmf, tho.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #21 by Econoline » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:14 pm

I've looked at those monojets before, I think they are too tall for my use. About the same height as a YF. I didn't know they were 250 cfm's. That's got to be the highest flowing 1v out there. It looks like they are about the same mounting as a YFA. The orientation adapter for it should work w/o to much work if at all. Probably suffers from the same mediocre idle circuit metering like all 1 barrels seem to. When the weather and the stars align just right they'll purr like a kitten.
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Carter BBD

Post #22 by chad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:23 pm

OK, I'll bite,"63falcon4drwagon".
How tall is it -total- as seen in ur pic? Inches & part inches if U can plez?
It has a lill adapter on the bottom, there -&- an A/C housing 'screw holder".
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #23 by 63falcon4drwagon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:52 am

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Last edited by 63falcon4drwagon on Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Carter BBD

Post #24 by chad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:08 am

never seeking to fool any1 so I might not B the one to answer. I do C my post 'quoted' tho.
I C a 200 as a lill high rever, a 250 as a bit more oriented to tq.
I have a bronk and this motor has it power at 1500 rpm. Don't wanna spin tires in off rd work.
That's my reasoning & (a la Click'n Clack) I'm stickin to it.
Hope that's what U R lookin for? Ask again/more if not.

To B helpful for me - let me know the hight of the carb.
BBD or Monojet
Thnx~
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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.

Post #25 by 63falcon4drwagon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:56 am

.
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onto other things, now

Post #26 by chad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:58 am

no cryin here...
Thanks anyway.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #27 by Econoline » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:18 am

.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #28 by 63falcon4drwagon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:43 pm

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #29 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:50 am

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #30 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:07 am

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #31 by Econoline » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:09 pm

Fair enough.
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Carter BBD

Post #32 by chad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 pm

hopin we don't get into politics (religion or a whole buncha other stuff around here. Stick w/the ford6'n should B OK, infact more'n OK by me.
The other stuff is a real distraction as can B seen by the graphics, swears, personal attacks, etc. I come here to get away frm that. 'S Y I enjoy the garage (same agreements). BTW: we got no drinkin there till after 8 pm so 's OK to sneek away if a$$holes start goin over the top...

Still lookin 4 a top to bottom measurment of the 1v Rochester "Monojet" (1MV).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #33 by xctasy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:49 pm

63falcon4drwagon, Dhat's what im talking about. Yippeee!

Avoiding a clash with the rocker cover or the passenger side head studs is always a problem if you start swing the carbs around. You've done it right!

63falcon4drwagon, you've identified the short turn radius, and how to stop it ghosting the air fuel mix.

Nice work 63falcon4drwagon. :beer: :mrgreen: :thumbup: :wow: :nod:

And lemme say, yep, its a 200 thing. Tall deck 250 is a whole nuther topic...
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #34 by xctasy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:09 pm

For tall deck 250's, the Weber32/36, Weber38, and Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx versions are very shallow carbs about 3.5" or so tall, and they can take a moderate aluminum riser adaptor which just might clear everything.

The height of the Holley 350/500 cfm and Autolite 2100/2150 carbs in any 250 install with a stock Early Bronco or E-line dog box is too great, and the down shift linkages are hard to manage.

e.g/cf


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... th-a-4r70w
jahearne wrote:I adapted 250 throttle linkage bolted to the valve cover operated from 1970 Mustang throttle pedal and cable. Also used a Lokar TV cable to the AOD. It's not a perfect setup, but it works; however, a constant pressure valvebody takes the worry out of it..


ImageImage

[/quote]

The removal of a choke air horn allows you to use a TBi carb from a Tempo, but it goes bakc to the bad idle problem with one source of fuel to six cylinders.
Image

Image

I don't like TBi single point systems for this reason.

See 09-24-2012, 01:02 PM #15 http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ont-Futura


That asside, Fords best kept secret was on adding adapters to things to make hard carb installs work. GM did it even better.

Since the Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx is a mirror image of the Weber32/36, it offten works well on limited throttle shaft space applications

Econoline, this might help you some if the doghousing space and height is limited.

Its doing it 63falcon4drwagon with a 90 degree twist




Its likely to risk a sealing problem unless you devocon or jb weld extra margin, but it too will work.


I've found the bolt spacing matters prevent a lot of easy work.
63falcon4drwagon used the stock log head castings strengths, and his application is great.

Proof is in the idle quality. Idle is a key problem of a 1-bbl Ford, it's always bad compared to a 2-bbl or triple carb DCOE with 6 bbls in total.

I like the elongation 63falcon4drwagon has done, but I think swapping it 90 degrees, and then tear dropping the hole in the opposite plane is easier still. It then allows up to three BBD carbs. :twisted:

Opel with the twin Carb 1900 Kaddet engine used a very smart way of running its carbs.

It used the old 1958 PA Vauxhall style fire wall mounted shaft,
with an intermediate shaft to run the carb.
The intermediate shaft takes the load off the carb, ( andin multiple installs, all carbs have to operate form an intermediate shaft).

GM did this better than anyone else for many years, Vauxhall and Opel did it the same way from 1955 to about 1978, then went to other more modern means, but the results were excellent . The very Early twin carb Vauxhall 1592 cc VX490's (based on the PA 2262 cc six cylinder engine, cut down to four cylinders) and Opel twin carb 1900's used the same system. It allows the whole engine to rock without causing throttle actuation problems, and is better than the cable likage for progression, just like a down shift rod is better than a down shift cable.



The result from an additional to 63falcon4drwagon swing with another 90 degrees is the same, but it then might liberate more space for you.

I did this years ago for my triple carb swap with 32/36's.




http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... -HP-to-I-6

There's enough meat in the iron head to do three deuces, and the 32/36DGVA or 38DGAS or 320/350/500/650 Holley 2-bbl are possible. Or you can use the 90 degree adaptor from the Mercury 2.6/2.8 Capri v6

Image.

Ford did this when fitting other carbs on the 2.8 V6.


It bolts down onto the later head, and allows space to fit the linkages.

Opel went down the track of a triple carb version of the Opel GT twin carb engine. Solex carbs were always a little tempramental, but the US Ford option Weber, Holley Weber and Holley aftermarket carbs can be fitted in like manner, and the GM idle air sollenoid can be hooked up to balance all three without linkage balance issues.
Image

Triple carbs aren't a disaster waiting to happen if done right.

Image
Image
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Carter BBD

Post #35 by chad » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:59 pm

whenever getting into multis I like the 6 Keihins but won't post all my cites again.
Do not wish to get too far away frm OP's subject line...
Use my below addys in sig or (less desirable) a PM here.
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Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #36 by Econoline » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:32 pm

xctasy wrote:For tall deck 250's, the Weber32/36, Weber38, and Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx versions are very shallow carbs about 3.5" or so tall, and they can take a moderate aluminum riser adaptor which just might clear everything.

The height of the Holley 350/500 cfm and Autolite 2100/2150 carbs in any 250 install with a stock Early Bronco or E-line dog box is too great, and the down shift linkages are hard to manage.

That asside, Fords best kept secret was on adding adapters to things to make hard carb installs work. GM did it even better.

Since the Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx is a mirror image of the Weber32/36, it offten works well on limited throttle shaft space applications

Econoline, this might help you some if the doghousing space and height is limited.

Its doing it 63falcon4drwagon with a 90 degree twist

Its likely to risk a sealing problem unless you devocon or jb weld extra margin, but it too will work.

I've found the bolt spacing matters prevent a lot of easy work.
63falcon4drwagon used the stock log head castings strengths, and his application is great.

Proof is in the idle quality. Idle is a key problem of a 1-bbl Ford, it's always bad compared to a 2-bbl or triple carb DCOE with 6 bbls in total.

The result from an additional to 63falcon4drwagon swing with another 90 degrees is the same, but it then might liberate more space for you.

I did this years ago for my triple carb swap with 32/36's.


One of the things I liked about how it worked out for 63falcon4drwagon was b/c he was forced to skew it, it gave him broader coverage of the log. Happy accident. And the fact that he did it in situ and utilized the factory casting/pad. I did some math and there is an equal area on the oem carb mount that can be opened up. Compared to straight through 2 x 1 7/16" bores of a BBD TBI, ~3.29 sq inches can be opened up for the 3.24 of the BBD TBI. But of course the shape change probably affects flow and potentially for the worse.

At the end of the day I'll probably just mill mine off. It's easy enough to do if you pull the head and know someone with a mill. Which I do. I'm still waiting to hear back from Holley on the flow of their Sniper BBD. What I really love about the footprint of this carb is how it keeps you away from the area's of the log beyond the stock carb mount. B/c when you look at it both sides are moving up in relation to one another, esp the aft side. This means the wider you go the thinner it gets to bridge a flat spot between them w/o brazing a plate on there. I'm not worried about it being level. TBI may be less than ideal, but considering what we are working with, i.e. the log, a 2v tbi has got to be a huge improvement. Ideally it should be 90* to the engine but it's just way easier to mount it inline on the log.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #37 by xctasy » Wed May 01, 2019 3:27 pm

Holley is to be commened for at least having the balls to make a Ball and Ball Dual bbl. It will sell, and be wonderfull. Period.

In fact, any Throttle Body EFi will work if you can fit it, Holley has indeed made the whole package, which is designed to fix one engineering mess up, the small cap Duraspark, by fitting this Band Aid.

Image

In so doing, it optimized the design for the 258 Jeep (and Mopar 273/318/360) engine bay, and it can never be Emissions endorsed, or totally fix the idle problems.

It has fuel reservoir in the back, and a front sensor which means it'll be a tight fit in anything other than a 258, or 273/318/360

Image

However, Holleys Sniper BBD is a triumph of Engineering over Stupidity.

All the problems with 2-BBL 258 AMC Jeeps not ideling or progressing were due to

1. the stupid small Presolite cap they used on the Ford Duraspark, when Ford had already moved to the large cap Duraspark because of cross fire.

2. The wrong positioning of the carb so both legs of the fuel log get filled. The very issue Jagstang and 63Falcon4drwagon found regards the idle quality of I6 small Fords was figured out by AMC in 1963 with the 195.6 carbs and "intake". Back then, early versions of it and the updated 196 and 232 had a 2bbl WCB Carter intake manifold option




This is the 195.6 in line with the rate roaster plate.

An excellent manifold and carb system.
Image

Image
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If you use the Rat Roster Cross Ram Smoky Yunick style plate on a 6 cylinder,

I started in 2011, but got busy earning a living

Image

My background was twin TBi CrossRam and Twin throttle body Crossfire Chevy intake manifolds, so when I found the old AMC/ Nash six cylinder stuff, it was a slam dunk to do it on a Ford log head six.

Image

Based on the Mopar Ramcharger 413 Wedge system, and the later crossram z28 camaro engine

http://image.superchevy.com/f/97506013+ ... engine.jpg

I love Jeep, but I gotta call it as I see it, and IMHO, Jeep made the mistake of trying to use cheeper parts, and avoiding manifold AND LINKAGE changes, as they used the Chrysler Australia Torquefilte or BW 42 kickdown lever and 2-bbl Eamil BBD placement, and so the BBD was placed the wrong way around as a result.

In Fords planned development 1978 era 200 2bbl, it had used the 2150 Motorcraft carb.

So did AMC on other 304 and 345 V8's, but when the 258 came out, the intake was left the Australian Hemi 245/265 2-bbl way, and those cars never idled well either. And Carter supplied the 2BBL BBD, and excellent carb if its placed properly to "two leg" supply the log head.


Image



Meantime, I think anyone getting rid of the Jeep BBD should contact people on this forum, and sell it for 25 dollars.

Then I'd spend a few bucks on a BBD adaptor plate like 63falcon4drwagon, and just run the Carter. Maybee even three.

All the info exists, and no one would be silly enough to run a small cap Duraspark with a carb placed to create an idle backlog which stops both the front three and back three cylinders from having a chance to be well fed.

The Carter will work fine. If you want to feedback it, control the fuel air ratio with the Mixture Control Soleniod, and run three of them.

Help three people take off a emissions legal BBD carb off there Jeep, and use MegaSquirt to do a 100% close loop control of the fuel delivery system like Ford did on the 2.3 liter YFA Carter Ranger pickups and 2.3 Mustangs


This is the carb your looking for.

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #38 by Econoline » Wed May 01, 2019 10:06 pm

I'm glad to hear that X b/c that's the way I'm going to mount it :D I've got a chinese 318 BBD coming so I can get this figured out. The 318 BBD is the largest of the small BBD's and flows 285 cfms from what I've gathered online researching. Calculating flow through the size of the sniper bbd bores I'm estimating around 400 cfm. Holley hasn't gotten back to me. It's more than enough to feed my warmed up 250 to beyond 4500 rpms(which it will never go). I've been looking at the linkage using my stock rod setup and I think it will be fairly simple to execute by moving the stock pivot fwd on the adapter and adding a throttle arm extension to the carbs arm. I'll have to move the TV cable setup fwd as well, but I think that will be fine.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #39 by Econoline » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:06 pm

I noticed today that Holley has released a small bore "2CG" version of the Sniper which is just the BBD version with a different throttle arm attached that is more like the 2300 w/ the throttle stud holes and stud holes for various kickdowns. That was my biggest hangup with using the BBD version besides the extra $100. Unfortunately this one costs $150 more than the 2300 :roll:

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_efi_2gc_small_bore/parts/550-864

This base pattern will fit on a milled log with no need to fill anything, skew the carb or shift it fwd. Or could be used with an adapter and hogged out hole like 63falcon4drwagon's.

The Holley Sniper 2300 is advertised as flowing 580 cfm. The bores of the BBD/2CG are 85% of the size of the 2300. 1.6875" vs 1.4375" x 2. If it were a direct correlation, the BBD/2CG Sniper would flow 490 cfm. I'm not sure if it's that simple but I'd bet it can at least flow in excess of 400 cfms.

:beer:
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #40 by bmbm40 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:55 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:The more I drive my Falcon with the BBD 2 barrel the more I like it.
It's the best upgrade that I have performed on this old car.
My DIY manual choke is great.
Pull out the choke for an instant start then push it in to 1/4 for a fast idle warm up with out choking the engine and polluting the air or the washing the cylinder walls with raw fuel.
The BBD is a great carb for a 200 six.
With two idle screws-throttle plates there is no more uneven fuel distribution or rough idle.
Performance is outstanding over the whole power band.
Full throttle high RPM power is great.
The tone of exhaust and intake is now like a six cylinder race car engine.
I love it.
The Chinese carb has brass float in it.
From the looks of it and RockAuto info it is a 1971 Dodge pickup BBD carb.
I'll have no problem if I need a carb kit or what ever.
Without milling-brazing the head I can always reinstall the YFA carb.
My Falcon is now a hot rod!


Yep still liking this set up for several reasons.
Did you notice an improvement in low end torque?
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 2v, power brakes, rear LS, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #41 by Georgia200 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:12 am

Interesting thread.

I was on the phone with UREMCO, who rebuilds a bunch of carbs for the parts box stores.

They tell me that they buy the China carbs to use as cores.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #42 by xctasy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:05 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Since Feb 17 2020, all 66 63falcon4drwagon posts have been de contented.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #43 by bubba22349 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:14 pm

:hmmm: That's just more than a bit strange. If I remember right there was a quite a commotion on this post topic about April 12, 2019 maybe he couldn't get over that, and no more posts after April14, 2019. That's to bad was looking forward to see how his project worked out. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #44 by Econoline » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:05 am

I've been working on this lately. I need to get this mounted so I can reconfigure my TV and throttle linkage for the Sniper. I still need to buy a throttle cable and find the time to get it installed. I've made an adapter out of 1" aluminum. The hole in the log will be enlarged to 2". Eventually the head will be swapped, but I'm still looking for a good head.

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Carter BBD

Post #45 by chad » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:21 am

mmmm...! pretty good Seth...Y change the head?

(Want even more cfm? the rochester 1v on a (is it 70s/80s) chebby flows pretty good? therefore hi tq @ low rev. No Sniper made 4 it?)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #46 by Econoline » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:12 am

Chad, I may end up just having the current head milled, but I'm trying to get to this Sniper conversion done without having to have the Van down for a long period of time. Also, importantly, not spending so much $$$ all at once by not pulling the head right now. If I can find a good spare before I get to it, I'll convert the spare head. This BBD will sit in the same location as when the head gets milled and I can use the same adapter for the Sniper 2CG in the meantime. Right now I need to get the throttle converted to cable to get this thing mounted.

2" hole = 3.14 sq inches
1 7/16" hole = 1.62 sq inches
x2 holes = 3.24 sq inches

Only ~3% difference in area

And a stock 1.75" hole = 2.41 sq inches, 23% and 25.5% difference respectively than above.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #47 by bubba22349 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:04 pm

:beer: The adapter plate looks great Econoline! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Carter BBD

Post #48 by chad » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:45 pm

Ahhhh, capiche`.
"2 heads R beddah den one !"
:twisted:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Carter BBD

Post #49 by Econoline » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:18 pm

xctasy wrote: Since Feb 17 2020, all 66 63falcon4drwagon posts have been de contented.


bubba22349 wrote::hmmm: That's just more than a bit strange. If I remember right there was a quite a commotion on this post topic about April 12, 2019 maybe he couldn't get over that, and no more posts after April14, 2019. That's to bad was looking forward to see how his project worked out. :nod:


He was the inspiration for this thread. No ill will from me. He mouthed off about something with carb height and I was probably a little drunk or otherwise impaired and mouthed off back. That's all there was to that. I hope he's getting along good in that 4 dr wagon. You don't see them everyday that's for sure.
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Re: Carter BBD

Post #50 by Econoline » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:47 pm

Thanks for the encouragement and kind comments. I saw I didn't have any pics with the carb on the head when I posted last night. I thought I had one, but anyway here's a couple with my custom gaskets and plywood carb hat adapter! ;) lol. I'm afraid it may be too high b/c the choke arm forces the air cleaner up considerably. 1/2 an inch or close to it anyway. That's with having already pulled off the choke pull-off bit on the other side. The sniper won't have that issue.

Image

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