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Head Work

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StarDiero75
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Head Work

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:02 pm

Howdy guys,

So i just dropped the 1980 2V head off at the machine shop to clean and magnaflux the head. If all is a go, i gotta pick out new springs and retainers, it needs new valve seats, and I'm going up to 1.50" exhaust valve. I might as well replace all the valve seals, I'm thinking replacing the intake valves, and back cutting and the 3 angle valve job.

So here's my questions:

What springs and retainers should i get? I'm using a 256-256 Schneider cam with .420" lift and 1.5 adjustable rockers. Maybe 1.6 later. I've heard the 302 springs are good, but what retainers should i use? Or are there better springs to use?

On VI, they have stock steel replacement valves and Stainless Port Flow valves. I was thinking of using the port flow ones, or should i use the steel ones? This is a daily car so whatever holds up the longest. And are the port flow already backcut?

I still need to CC the head but I'll wait till i get all the new valves and seats done b/c the seats are failing and i don't want the sinking valves changing the CCs. Then i can determine how much to cut off the bottom. I'm looking at doing a 9.2 or 9.3:1 static. I'll be using 92 octane and am roughly near sea level. I plan to use a 1.08 Autolite 2100.

Thanks guys
Ryan
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--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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wsa111
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Re: Head Work

Post #2 by wsa111 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:11 pm

Get the springs & retainers from Schneider. Their springs are whats needed for your camshaft & the retainers are quality.
Stock Ford springs have no damper.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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StarDiero75
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Re: Head Work

Post #3 by StarDiero75 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:21 pm

wsa111 wrote:Get the springs & retainers from Schneider. Their springs are whats needed for your camshaft & the retainers are quality.
Stock Ford springs have no damper.

How do I know which ones to get from them? I was on their site and saw a bunch of different ones. I know i need a single spring but i don't know which
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

Soldmy66
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Re: Head Work

Post #4 by Soldmy66 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:27 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
wsa111 wrote:Get the springs & retainers from Schneider. Their springs are whats needed for your camshaft & the retainers are quality.
Stock Ford springs have no damper.

How do I know which ones to get from them? I was on their site and saw a bunch of different ones. I know i need a single spring but i don't know which


I'd call them.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Head Work

Post #5 by StarDiero75 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:36 pm

Soldmy66 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:
wsa111 wrote:Get the springs & retainers from Schneider. Their springs are whats needed for your camshaft & the retainers are quality.
Stock Ford springs have no damper.

How do I know which ones to get from them? I was on their site and saw a bunch of different ones. I know i need a single spring but i don't know which


I'd call them.

That's what I figured.

Ok thanks guys for the spring and retainer help, I got that solved. I'll post when I call them monday when they open.

Now time for the valve questions. Keep it coming guys.

Thanks!
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Econoline
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Re: Head Work

Post #6 by Econoline » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:31 pm

If you have a schneider cam the spring # and specs are printed on the cam card. Personally, I'm planning to use comp 903-12's. I used a little lighter spring for break in, but I'm going to swap to the 903-12's when the 2v mod is performed. They are 80# closed @ 1.7" installed. I should have had them measured @ 1.6" when I had a set in hand. But that's what I'm looking to use. I got paranoid about the cam break in so I had 906-12's(61# @ 1.6") installed. I have the one pc retainers I got from classic inlines and new 7 deg locks I got from comp installed now.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Head Work

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:56 am

Econoline wrote:If you have a schneider cam the spring # and specs are printed on the cam card. Personally, I'm planning to use comp 903-12's. I used a little lighter spring for break in, but I'm going to swap to the 903-12's when the 2v mod is performed. They are 80# closed @ 1.7" installed. I should have had them measured @ 1.6" when I had a set in hand. But that's what I'm looking to use. I got paranoid about the cam break in so I had 906-12's(61# @ 1.6") installed. I have the one pc retainers I got from classic inlines and new 7 deg locks I got from comp installed now.

I don't have the cam yet but i know what i want to use. I'm building a list of crap I need and can put money aside 1 piece at a time rather buying it all now, b/c i can't afford that lol.

I'm just gonna run the same springs. I'm sure it'll be fine. Especially using the prelube and breaking it in properly.

I'll give Jerry a call on monday to ask what springs and retainers I need. B/c I'll need those first since I'm having the head done now.

Any info or ideas about the valves guys?
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Head Work

Post #8 by chad » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:08 am

StarDiero75 wrote:Any...ideas about the valves...?

what diameter did U have them machined to?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
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Re: Head Work

Post #9 by StarDiero75 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:25 am

chad wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:Any...ideas about the valves...?

what diameter did U have them machined to?

Since its the 1980, it has the 1.75" intake and 1.38" exhaust. I'm gonna have the exhaust upped to 1.50". But my question is, should i use stainless or stock steel valves? The stainless from VI say, port flow. I don't know if they're better to have vs the stock steel ones. But i just want the valves that will last the longest and be the best for a DD.

Should i just call Matt or do you guys have any ideas/opinions on it?
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Head Work

Post #10 by wsa111 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:01 am

Get the intakes & the exhausts from VI. After the intake valves are lapped in to the machined seat do a 30 degree backcut to the lappin & pick up 5 HP.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Head Work

Post #11 by StarDiero75 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:55 pm

wsa111 wrote:Get the intakes & the exhausts from VI. After the intake valves are lapped in to the machined seat do a 30 degree backcut to the lappin & pick up 5 HP.

Thats what i was planning on, but whats the benefit to the stainless over the stock steel ones? The stainless ones say port flow on them, so would they already machined to flow better?
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Head Work

Post #12 by wsa111 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:09 pm

Better flow out of the box & the 30 degree backcut is icing on the cake.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Head Work

Post #13 by StarDiero75 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:59 am

wsa111 wrote:Better flow out of the box & the 30 degree backcut is icing on the cake.

Sick. Sounds like thats what I'm getting. Thanks man
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Head Work

Post #14 by Econoline » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:46 pm

Bill, what's your experience or opinion on the longevity of a port flow/stem cut and back cut SS valve compared to a stock fomoco valve with a 3 degree valve job in a daily driver?
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Head Work

Post #15 by StarDiero75 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:18 am

Econoline wrote:Bill, what's your experience or opinion on the longevity of a port flow/stem cut and back cut SS valve compared to a stock fomoco valve with a 3 degree valve job in a daily driver?

I'd like to hesr this. This is what i was waiting to hear hehe
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Head Work

Post #16 by StarDiero75 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:17 am

So guys i finally got everything for the head. I looked at valve springs and since I'm not reving this thing anywhere past 4500, I'm using 1973 302 exhaust valve springs from NAPA. They have a 80lbs closed and 240lb open. The ones Schneider had were rated at 125lbs closed and 325lbs open. The Performance book said anything over 100lbs closed puts extra wear on the cam and valvetrain. And the performance book recommended these as a good spring to use.

Schneider recommended for my low RPM use to stick with stock retainers. He also said the 302 springs should be fine. So I'll be reusing my retainers. I'll be using NAPA locks.

For reminder I'm going with a Schneider 256H cam and matching lifters. Jerry reccomended I advance the cam 4° to bring the torque down a little lower.

Let me know what you all think. Should I have still gone with the Schneider springs and retainers?

Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Head Work

Post #17 by pmuller9 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:03 pm

You made the right decision by using the lighter springs.
The 300 six with much heavier valves uses 80# seat and 200# open at.400" lift in stock form.
We generally don't go over 115# seat and 280# open at .500" lift with a performance hydraulic cam figuring for 5500 rpm.

The problem is Schneider doesn't have a wide enough spring assortment to cover the many head and cam configurations.
As an example, I had to spec a Comp spring with the Schneider 142 solid lifter cam because they didn't have one close enough to work.

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Re: Head Work

Post #18 by wsa111 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:03 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
Econoline wrote:Bill, what's your experience or opinion on the longevity of a port flow/stem cut and back cut SS valve compared to a stock fomoco valve with a 3 degree valve job in a daily driver?

I'd like to hesr this. This is what i was waiting to hear hehe

Better flow & the 30" backcut is another at least 5HP.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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StarDiero75
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Re: Head Work

Post #19 by StarDiero75 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:23 pm

wsa111 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:
Econoline wrote:Bill, what's your experience or opinion on the longevity of a port flow/stem cut and back cut SS valve compared to a stock fomoco valve with a 3 degree valve job in a daily driver?

I'd like to hesr this. This is what i was waiting to hear hehe

Better flow & the 30" backcut is another at least 5HP.

I gotta tell him to do the 30°. I'll tell him when i drop off the springs
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Head Work

Post #20 by StarDiero75 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:25 pm

pmuller9 wrote:You made the right decision by using the lighter springs.
The 300 six with much heavier valves uses 80# seat and 200# open at.400" lift in stock form.
We generally don't go over 115# seat and 280# open at .500" lift with a performance hydraulic cam figuring for 5500 rpm.

The problem is Schneider doesn't have a wide enough spring assortment to cover the many head and cam configurations.
As an example, I had to spec a Comp spring with the Schneider 142 solid lifter cam because they didn't have one close enough to work.

Yeah my gut said that was too high, especially when I saw what was said in the Handbook. So thats good that the new springs are similar to what the 300 uses. The 73' 302 exhaust will work perfectly.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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