Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Hello Everyone!

I am starting this topic due to my recent decision to dive into the motor.

Here is a quick recap: The falcon has been sitting for over 20 years, the motor was starting then stalling. I put in a new fuel system front to back. Rebuilt carburetor, new ignition switch, starter solenoid, starter, coil, wires, dizzy cap, rotor, points, and condenser. I may be missing something but ask if needed.

Starting compression when I got the car, just to check if it would run was between 65-90 on all 6 cyl. Compression now is 1:65 2:135 3:140 4:135 5:135 6:140
Thats when I decided to dive in to find the problem, seems like there was a broken ring and it scraped with cyl wall. If you want to see the whole process getting to this point see the thread: Smoke from Carb, where my project continues to snowball.

Where I am at now: Head is off and out of the car (working on disassembly of all the valves to clean and hand lap them. Block is still in the car, I have no room or hoist to remove it. I did however manage to ridge ream and hone all 6 cyl. So far everything is going smooth! I plan on doing a rering kit, all new gaskets and hand lapping the valves and see what happens.

Most important right now! Bubba recommended a kit from falconglobal on ebay: What size bearings and rings do I need they say I have to specify the size? I'm looking at this from work so I don't have my handbook in front of me. I'm not sure if I should be ordering oversize rings or if the standard will still be good after honing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-rerin...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
And if you want to look at the pictures I have tons but I am trying to organize before It gets out of hand:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh

Thanks for everyones help so far on the other topic: Hoping to continue to learn and get this ol' girl back on the road before summer!

for me 1782 is the only pic needed. I'd wrk that cyl (ring, ridge ream, hone, ID valve issue, etc). Nuttin else.
I'm budget constrained as well. Ran my '68 170 33 yrs (woods wrk truck) that way. Much of it to get back to wrk
not just $. Make $ insteda spend...
As it is now, look 4 Y that 1 went bad. What caused the problem? Is it an oil passage problem, a simple ring failure, Y? If not doing a comprehensive (big buck) job...the Qs to answ are important. U address a very specific area, attempt to assure its correct, does not happen as soon as buttoned back up. My 2 cents...
-All in a sense of sharing, comradship, and enjoyment~

For the rings you could measure the bore if you have the tools to determine the bore size a stock standard 144 bore measures 3.500. Far easier since your not boring the cylinder and replaceing the Pistons is after your pistions are cleaned really well look at the tops of the pistions for any oversize markings so you can get the correct sizes. No markings or Std. means they are a Standard size, if you see markings like this .020, .030, .040, .060 ect. these are oversizes i.e. the engine has been bored out in the past. Order the rings sizes by those exact markings you can't use bigger ring oversizes than that are in your engine it would be to tight. If you have any trouble determining the piston size post a good close up picture of the pistion top. Using oversize rings with make the engin too tight and lock it up, too loose and it will have excessive blow by, oil consumption, low compression ect.

You could measure the crankshaft Rod journal size with a Mic if you have one a stock 144 standard size Rod Journal measures 2.1236. Or Remove the old Rod bearing insert for the rod cap and look at the back of it for markings again if there is no mark, a FoMoCo in an oval (this is an Original Equipment Ford bearing), or Std. these all indicate a standard size bearing. If you see a .010, .020, .030, .040, these are over sized bearings. i.e. The crankshafts bearing journal has been ground undersize in the past. You would order the exact same size as the old bearing, too loose will cause low oil pressure, a spun bearing, Rod knock ect., to big will lock up the engine. If you have trouble figuring out the bearing size post a picture of the back of the bearing. AgaIn since your not having the crankshaft ground to the next undersize than you can't use any size bigger than what is in your engine now. Keep up the good work, best of luck

Thanks as always!

I’ll get the pistons cleaned up tonight and take some pictures to make sure I ID them right. As well as the bearings.

Chad: I’ll take a better picture of #1 tonight after teaming and honing. It is much improved already from picture 1782! I will try to figure out if there are any issues but I’m 90% sure it was a ring failure. I bent my valve removal tool (it was for motorcycles) so I ordered a new one to complete that job. Is there a way to know if it was an oil passage problem?

More updates to follow tonight. 8)

Hi, X2. unless you bore the block or cut the crank, you use the size that came out.
Worn bearings show copper color. If the crank is smooth it is probably OK. A good machinist can measure for wear and taper.
I check the new bearing clearance with plasti-gauge, before assembly lube.
Moly rings need a smooth bore. If you go moly use a 3 stone hone and fine stones, not a ball hone.
I use an old ring, broken in half, to gently clean the ring grooves. You should check the end gap on the rings, and fit all the compression rings to a cylinder. You should also check the ring to the ring land on the piston. If the piston land is worn, the space will be too big, and the ring will flop around
If you ever rebuilt an engine or not, I would recommend a book by Tom Monroe, How to rebuild you Small Block Ford. There are good tips that apply to all engine work.
Good luck

"...way to know...(of)...an oil passage problem..."
just 1 idea. Let's C if the experts have suggestions. I just never see 1 cyl go like that. Did that guy (OP) ever change the oil?

Anyway, compressed air is my best friend. I use it every day (not just to power tools) to blow off stuff (after brake clean on surfaces, my clothing ta go home, motors, etc). I'd push it thru all known passages till runnin clean & w/full pressure. The Handbook (& may B 'tech archive' above as guides) show them. The rocker shaft is gunna B clogged if what I see in ur pic is any indication. U now have access (both directions) to "the kidney shaped" hole in block, head, etc...HTH !!!

Others can *Problem Solve on "the 1 piston", *offer more on the oil passages, or *poo poo the whole idea (of tryin to ID the initial issue).
Y would a ring break? Was the ridge after or B4 the break? Is that the whole story to this failure? By this time the committee usually would have chimed in.

Hi Chad, After having examined all the pictures by bones92 I will take a shot at the question of why it broke a ring. The crankshafts Rod journals look to be in very good condition no pictures of the Rod bearings but I am going to assume that because the engine had very good oil pressure that they are also still in reasonablely good condistion. In my opinion this would rule out a clogged oil passage problem in the short block / bottom end. Should the rocker shaft be cleaned out while its apart? Yes for sure this is a good idea and they are know to get gummed up with sludge.

The sludge build up inside the engine as well as the external appearance of this engine is evadenice of a lack of care by a previous owner or owners during its many years of existence since 1962. I believe this lack of care on the oil and filter changes before and or also because of it's 20 years of setting unused are the most likely possable causes of the broken ring. Unless an engine was well pickled before it was stored unused for this 2 decades, then when you also bring an engine out of this long of a slumber it takes some special procedures to keep from causeing engine damage before starting them up again. There is also the possibility that the ring was broken during it use sometime before this 20 years of setting unused and that is maybe why it was parked. From looking at the picture of the grove worn in #1 cylinder in my opinion this happened before it was parked. The two compression tests are an indacator to as #1 cylinder stayed the same yet with cleaning and a couple of oil changes and some running time of the engine in cylinders #2 though #6 the compression improved greatly likely from those rings loosening up and or the valves also sealing better.

By the way the hone job on number one looks real good and should work fine for this rering / overhaul. Good luck

What I wonder is will the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?

"...broken during it use sometime before this 20 years of unuse..."
and runa good while to form the ridge.

"...the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?"
I think that;s moot. Is re surfacing the cyl wall, cleaning the ring groove, replacing the ring.
May B I don't get ur point Seth (BTW - new thread on a sniper just showed in this form. Reminded them of ur current wrk w/BBD. They may PM you). Can U say more?

Got out in the garage for a while tonight, was at least somewhat productive. I cleaned one piston, and decided to let the others bath in some cleaner because getting the ring lands were so caked it is unreal. But either way I pretty much done with two now. The bearings are looking pretty good maybe some slight wear in the center (they all look very similar) but no copper look. I as usual took a bunch of photos. But I noticed something strange: There are 7 different rings on the piston? The upper compression ring is normal, then on the second ring there is another compression ring, a very small ring under it and then a wavy type ring behind them both, then the typical oil ring set up. But its progressing, I will order the rering kit all standard based. As usual thanks for the help. All opinions and ideas are much appreciated!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh

"...get fixed in that groove..."
reviewing the pic again I think I now know. I C sompin new-to-me.
One of the issues is the deep vertical score on the #1 wall is it passenger's side.
(may B frm dragin the piston out w/broken ring projecting)
Has that been reduced w/the resurfacing you've done?

It could have been on me when pulling the piston out but it is on the driver side. I really hope I didn’t cause it But. It has reduced in size my fingernail will barely grab it now. I’m going to hone again before I put everything back together and work out the ridge a little more. I started cleaning up the other pistons and noticed some pretty bad pitting, I don’t have photos yet and honestly plan on using it anyway. I should have assumed that this old neglected falcon, i would find some strange things.

guy on another thread (look it up?) is thinkin of sleavin 1 cyl.
Never heard of doin that w/block in. Good luck on the cont. hand work.

bones 92":d71c27o8 said:

... But I noticed something strange: There are 7 different rings on the piston? The upper compression ring is normal, then on the second ring there is another compression ring, a very small ring under it and then a wavy type ring behind them both, then the typical oil ring set up. But its progressing, I will order the rering kit all standard based. As usual thanks for the help. All opinions and ideas are much appreciated!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh

Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't know they used 3 compression rings, plus the oil scrapers! If all the other pistons are the same, and as long as the re-ring kit has the same number of rings, I wouldn't worry about it (except to wonder about Ford using a high-drag setup on an economy engine, lol)

Econoline":367o8j5t said:

What I wonder is will the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?

Click to expand...

Yes the rings should rotate after the pistions ring groves are cleaned with a ring grove cleaner or you can use an old broken ring to scrape out the carbon build up. This wouldn't have happen if past owners had did regular oil and filter changes. In the past i rebuild an International six for my wife's uncle (around 1977) though he had bought that pickup new he never changed the oil or filter for 50,000 miles. It was compleately worn out long before it should have been.

chad":33hr4jzy said:

"...get fixed in that groove..."
reviewing the pic again I think I now know. I C sompin new-to-me.

Was the ridge after or B4 the break? Is that the whole story to this failure? By this time the committee usually would have chimed in.

One of the issues is the deep vertical score on the #1 wall is it passenger's side.
(may B frm dragin the piston out w/broken ring projecting)
Has that been reduced w/the resurfacing you've done?

Click to expand...

The the cylinders ridge is cause by the rings wearing against the cylinder wall this was very common on the older engines that used cast iron rings. This would Have a happened before and during, the ridge line is only to the top of the upper pistion rings travel at TDC.

That's not likely that the grove happened from taking the pistion out you can see the discoloration in the bottom of the grove that this happened long ago, if it was recent it would be shiny. Yes the honing that bones92 did in #1 cylinder reduced the depth of the grove some and also took away any sharp edges.

bones 92":1fkfhhsb said:

It could have been on me when pulling the piston out but it is on the driver side. I really hope I didn’t cause it But. It has reduced in size my fingernail will barely grab it now. I’m going to hone again before I put everything back together and work out the ridge a little more. I started cleaning up the other pistons and noticed some pretty bad pitting, I don’t have photos yet and honestly plan on using it anyway. I should have assumed that this old neglected falcon, i would find some strange things.

Click to expand...

No you didn't cause this bore scrape the discoloration of in the bottom of the grove is a telltale sign that this happened long ago. That's a very old style set of rings the new ones will be of a better design. I seen some pitting on the one pistion didn't look to bad, a sign that there was some moisture or water setting in it, should be okay if it's like that first one. Couldn't see the back of the bearing insert well enough to be able ID the size, needs some cleaning the markings will be near the parting line on tang side.

yep, as stated (I've seen this B4 more "back in the day") few oil changes.
They usta believe the oil changes were just to steal their $...
Glad the 'score' is old too as continues to add to the ID of original/whole problem.

Cont to see if "wrk that 1 cyl" avoids what Seth sez (score not too deep).

How bout the slieve Bubs? Not deep enuff to need that?

Well Chad, the other site member had the bottom of a cylinder damaged from a Connecting Rod that broke it was a good candidate for a sleeve to fix it. Now in this case there is no good reason to put a sleeve in a cylinder that's not cracked or damaged and is still close to a standard bore. It would be better to just bore it out to the next oversize that would give it a nice round straight bore like .020, .030, .040, or even up to .060 over and install a new set of pistions. But this bore score isn't all that deep now so it's not enough to worry about. Plus in the beginning of this journey bones92 stated he wanted to fix this engine on a real tight budget, and that's going to rule out anything more than a rering overhaul, it won't be perfect but should put it back on the road quickly. Hope that helps you. Edited

Not much progress to report from today, even though I was out there for a long time :rolflmao: I cleaned the crap out of the head. There was a lot more junk than I thought! Stuff was caked on. But it's almost back to looking new. Even on a tight budget I'll try to get everything looking good. I'm almost done with cleaning the pistons, they are a pain in the ass to scrape clean. This poor little neglected motor definitely had a rough life. I will be doing the valve job tomorrow and hopefully finishing up the pistons too! Rings, bearings, valve seals and gaskets are on they way.