Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

a new "blow-through" build..

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

a new "blow-through" build..

Post #1 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:14 pm

Hi there guys, I am new here as you can determine. I've been a lurker for a couple years or so while building a DD powered by the infamous 300-6. My signature bears it's credentials and I built it myself. I was around when "Corsa" 150's and then 180's were around, and built a few DD's while working on a restored "65 180 had to be sold due to "life" and financial issues that were involved. (It died hard though, I towed it to Alaska along with all of the matching serial numbered correct parts, and it was drive-able with a 2-carb 110 at the time.)

Any-who, I get turbos, and I get why "blow-thru" carb'ed at lower pressures (up to 10 or so) may be the best choice for me to shoot for given the following parameters.:

stock crank, rods, cam (with a Cloyes metal set),.060 over block, (pistons are at this point up for discussion, although I like H519p hypers.)

This will be the block. Whether I will turbo or not It will be with me for a while as stated.

Heads: I can use a 90" EFI, or an 86, or 79 carb'ed head.

So, if I use an EFI head (which I prefer), what about using say (2) head-gaskets, lowering the pressure to allow for a safe (fairly experimental) head pressure to allow for up to 10 psi? (If I don't turbo it, I can remove 1 gasket and continue to use the block as a viable carb'ed naturally aspirated block).

This will all be going thru a CARB. I can use an Autolite or Holley, AND If Holley, I MAY be using a leaning device newly discovered that will allow me to adjust a HOLLEY carb from Idle cutoff-100% rich. (adjusted in-cab via a vernier mixture control). (managed by EGT input)

I believe I will use EFI exhaust manifolds, fabbing up a stainless turbo-mount-supporting style header pipe. Using a turbo solves many problems allowing for use of a cummins-style 3" out-flange, making the exhaust install very manageable. I WILL incorporate and EGT manual gauge style overall temp monitoring situation either pre-turbo or post...of course we CAN add an inter-cooler, and no doubt, WILL in time, allowing for higher limits of boost.

This is a long post and thank you for our patience.

May I say, that overall insane POWER is not my main objective. I hope to achieve a -low-boost, air-supplemented type of install suing a carb, and manual adjust-ability using an EGT to monitor overall health of the motor..(basically pistons) of course as testing proceeds, with satisfactory results, I CAN dial in more boost.

I GET how to do the carb hat install, and have the necessary tools and info to seal up the carb...

any "don't do it" input?...I have three engines or so available for testing..I WILL be shooting for low rpm spooling and the ability to "work" this 300-6 to a better potential under 2500-3000 rpm..so turbo choice is also a part of that equation, I get that..open to suggestions there.

On Edit I forgot to mention that I WILL use a DSII ignition probably initially, and am able to modify my own spark curve if need be. I am familiar with catch-can's for for breathing assistance, although at the RPM's I plan to operate at I don't see it as a potential problem.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:26 am

Don't do .060" over bore.
For turbo use you want as much cylinder wall thickness as possible.
Displacement is not as important as block integrity.

Sonic check the block for cylinder wall thickness and core shift.
If you have more than one block to choose from then check them all and use the best one.
Then only bore enough to clean up the cylinder walls.

No double head gaskets. Stacked head gaskets will blow out.
If a person was to go that route then they would use a single thin head gasket or a single thicker head gasket.

If you are going to use an intercooler and 10 psi of max boost, then the engine can be set up one time for both NA and/or boost.
Your looking for a cam and compression ratio combination for maximum torque from idle to 3000 rpm.
Those combinations general dictate a static compression ratio at 8.5 or less.

To minimize detonation, piston to head clearance should be around .040" so no thick head gaskets.
The piston needs to be near zero deck to accomplish proper clearance.
If you use the EFI head that puts around 34cc in the piston dish.
If you use the carb head then the piston has around a 24 cc dish.

You can do an inverse dome piston that mirrors the combustion chamber or a Spherical dish that centers the down force over the center of the piston pin.

I would use the early stock rods that do not have the oiling holes in the big end.

Do you plan on using the stock cam?

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #3 by johns3524 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:58 am

pmuller9 wrote:Don't do .060" over bore.
For turbo use you want as much cylinder wall thickness as possible.
Displacement is not as important as block integrity.Dully noted

Sonic check the block for cylinder wall thickness and core shift. I'm not sure I can get that done locally, but I'll look into it..and make a plan
If you have more than one block to choose from then check them all and use the best one. good point and good info to have
Then only bore enough to clean up the cylinder walls. I have 3 blocks, 1 standard, 1=.030, 1=060

No double head gaskets. Stacked head gaskets will blow out.
If a person was to go that route then they would use a single thin head gasket or a single thicker head gasket. Noted

If you are going to use an intercooler and 10 psi of max boost, then the engine can be set up one time for both NA and/or boost.
Your looking for a cam and compression ratio combination for maximum torque from idle to 3000 rpm.
Those combinations general dictate a static compression ratio at 8.5 or less. Noted, I was hoping for about 8.0+

To minimize detonation, piston to head clearance should be around .040" so no thick head gaskets.
The piston needs to be near zero deck to accomplish proper clearance.
If you use the EFI head that puts around 34cc in the piston dish.
If you use the carb head then the piston has around a 24 cc dish.
You can do an inverse dome piston that mirrors the combustion chamber or a Spherical dish that centers the down force over the center of the piston pin. I need to pencil on this some more for sure..noted

I would use the early stock rods that do not have the oiling holes in the big end. good point

Do you plan on using the stock cam?


I have at least 1 good stock cam so it would be my choice at this point. All good points to consider and I appreciate the input. I am juggling my projects around in my little shop this next week, and I'll begin to look at that standard bore block first. It is still all assembled at this time..so I'll know more in a week or two about that.

Thanks for the overall look at the plan. It sounds like I should focus on what piston to use first, based on an EFI head I guess. I haven't forgotten about checking the pistons out that you are using.

I'll be looking for a turbo that will come in as early as possible as well. From what I remember a small IHI did a pretty good job, but I need to look at all the options. The turbo choice flange needs will determine my approach to the exhaust config too, so choosing wisely and early will will make That an easier process.
It may take some time to build this up, but since I'm going to have the basic long block built and running in the truck,( which will more than likely be a c6 install), I'll be able to add what I need as I go. Having a solid, broken-in motor is my idea of a platform. We'll be in touch..and reading..always reading...things change.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

country fried 6
Registered User
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:31 pm
Location: wc wisconsin

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #4 by country fried 6 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:29 pm

why is it that you want to run the EFI head? general consensus seems to be that the carb head will flow a bit better, and it would make achieving the lower CR a little easier I think. but fast burn feature of the EFI head, if not disturbed could work for you.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #5 by johns3524 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:27 pm

country fried 6 wrote:why is it that you want to run the EFI head? general consensus seems to be that the carb head will flow a bit better, and it would make achieving the lower CR a little easier I think. but fast burn feature of the EFI head, if not disturbed could work for you.


Thanks for asking, I actually have been wanting to buy a new casting while available from Engine-Quest anyway that supposedly has a few thicker areas in the casting. I'm not sure if they are really any better, or even as good as OEM, but having tried one that I'm now using on my signature Bronco, I like it. I like the extra exhaust mount holes for hanging the EFI manifolds but that is a side "benefit".
I mainly wanted a new casting and they are offered with hardened seats. I will merely smooth out any casting roughness but not make any major changes. In my growing interest in these 300's I have found some EFI heads cracked beyond use, and it has become important for me at least in my perception that having a spare head, may not be a bad idea for an engine that is not longer produced. (Using the philosophy--life is in the head) There doesn't seem to be a lot of aftermarket support for these motors either, at least not like the typical SBF or SBC, so again..a spare head.

I will focus on the pistons for reaching the compression ratio I want even if I have to have them custom done I think. Hopefully the "as-I-think" process will help the best ideas to come to the surface as the project matures...
Last edited by johns3524 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:40 pm

johns3524 wrote:
I actually have been wanting to buy a new casting while available from Engine-Quest anyway that supposedly has a few thicker areas in the casting. I'm not sure if they are really any better, or even as good as OEM, but having tried one that I'm now using on my signature Bronco, I like it. I like the extra exhaust mount holes for hanging the EFI manifolds but that is a side "benefit".
I mainly wanted a new casting and they are offered with hardened seats. I will merely smooth out any casting roughness but not make any major changes. In my growing interest in these 300's I have found some EFI heads cracked beyond use, and it has become important for me at least in my perception that having a spare head, may not be a bad idea for an engine that is not longer produced. (Using the philosophy--life is in the head) There doesn't seem to be a lot of aftermarket support for these motors either, at least not like the typical SBF or SBC, so again..a spare head.

I will focus on the pistons for reaching the compression ratio I want even if I have to have them custom done I think. Hopefully the "as-I-think" process will help the best ideas to come to the surface as the project matures...


I looked at the Engine-Quest heads and can see why you want the new casting. Having hardened valve seats is reason alone and with the extra deck material and slightly improved ports is just another plus.

Your project is different from the norm in that the main focus is on how low in rpm can torque be made with a power adder rather than the quest for higher rpm horsepower.
The head needs to have high velocity port flow at low engine rpm which means the stock port size is fine.
The casting around the valve guides in the bowl area could be re-shaped for better flow and just a clean-up in the ports.
The combustion chambers need to be polished and all sharp edges rounded.

I always have the valve seat run-out checked along with the valve guide clearance. The run-out needs to be within .002" for valve guide longevity.

Turbocharger:
I'm figuring a working rpm up to 3500 rpm with a 4000 rpm max. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Max boost is 10 psi.
The stock head with some massaging should allow an engine Volumetric Efficiency of 80% at the low rpm range.
Figure 50% air to air intercooler efficiency.

Using those figures the turbo needs to supply 27 lbs/min of air at 3500 rpm at a compression ratio of 1.76 and a max of 31 lbs/min at 4000 rpm.
This falls in the range of a 47 mm turbo. I believe this also fits the IHI RHF55 turbo that you mentioned.

Using a small .60-.64 A/R turbine housing you should be able to get max boost by 2000 rpm.
The engine will produce 420 ft.lbs of torque from 2000 to 3000 rpm.

Air temps out of the turbo will be around 200 degrees and around 135 out of the intercooler at 50% efficiency.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #7 by johns3524 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:01 am

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:I actually have been wanting to buy a new casting while available from Engine-Quest anyway that supposedly has a few thicker areas in the casting. I'm not sure if they are really any better, or even as good as OEM, but having tried one that I'm now using on my signature Bronco, I like it. ....... done I think. Hopefully the "as-I-think" process will help the best ideas to come to the surface as the project matures...


I looked at the Engine-Quest heads and can see why you want the new casting. Having hardened valve seats is reason alone and with the extra deck material and slightly improved ports is just another plus.

Your project is different from the norm in that the main focus is on how low in rpm can torque be made with a power adder rather than the quest for higher rpm horsepower.
The head needs to have high velocity port flow at low engine rpm which means the stock port size is fine.
The casting around the valve guides in the bowl area could be re-shaped for better flow and just a clean-up in the ports.
The combustion chambers need to be polished and all sharp edges rounded.

I always have the valve seat run-out checked along with the valve guide clearance. The run-out needs to be within .002" for valve guide longevity.

Turbocharger:
I'm figuring a working rpm up to 3500 rpm with a 4000 rpm max. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Max boost is 10 psi.
The stock head with some massaging should allow an engine Volumetric Efficiency of 80% at the low rpm range.
Figure 50% air to air intercooler efficiency.

Using those figures the turbo needs to supply 27 lbs/min of air at 3500 rpm at a compression ratio of 1.76 and a max of 31 lbs/min at 4000 rpm.
This falls in the range of a 47 mm turbo. I believe this also fits the IHI RHF55 turbo that you mentioned.

Using a small .60-.64 A/R turbine housing you should be able to get max boost by 2000 rpm.
The engine will produce 420 ft.lbs of torque from 2000 to 3000 rpm.

Air temps out of the turbo will be around 200 degrees and around 135 out of the inter-cooler at 50% efficiency.


Wow..thanks for the extra info for sure.. Your comments on the head mods confirmed what I had hoped making it not as involved as some for sure.

Also the comment about the IHI I found interesting, I had researched them a couple of years ago while gathering parts for a Turbo-coupe motor I was building (an older change-course project)

If you haven't already you might want to read up on my other EGT probe thread. I gave some back story to my interest and history there. I genuinely appreciate the input..

I'll be following your progress on your 240 approach as well. Best wishes as you "play" at what drives you each day...
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #8 by pmuller9 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:01 pm

johns3524 wrote:
If you haven't already you might want to read up on my other EGT probe thread. I gave some back story to my interest and history there. I genuinely appreciate the input..

I'll be following your progress on your 240 approach as well. Best wishes as you "play" at what drives you each day...


I'm following your EGT probe thread and looked at some of your photos. Great stuff!
I'm interested in your manual fuel control. Sometimes the old ways are a lot more fun. Hope you get it to work the way you want.
I see you would also like manual spark control.
Our shop can modify or fabricate if you need. Spokane WA.

Thanks for the best wishes on my 300 project. The engine is for a college student who wants a six that will be faster than his friends that have V8 powered trucks. He originally wanted to go turbo but that was more than his budget allowed.
We were looking at a 500+ hp build.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:33 pm

Cam and compression considerations:
This is long and detailed because of it's importance.

As you already know, the stock cam is 4 degrees retarded and would best serve a turbo application in an advanced position.
If you advance the cam from 4* retarded to straight up, the Dynamic compression ratio is increased 1/4 a point
so would need to drop the static compression ratio by at least 1/4 a point.

The stock cam has 2 more parameters that are not compatible with turbocharging.

The stock cam's .050" lobe lift duration is only 192* but the seat to seat duration is a very long 268*.
That is a 76* difference. (lobe minor intensity) If you split that in half you have 38* to gently open the valve the first .080" and the same to gently close the valve on the seat from .080" valve lift. (.050" x 1.6 rocker ratio = .080")
This was probably done for valve train and valve seat longevity.

The second parameter is the 110* Lobe Separation Angle.
Combine that with the 268* duration and you get 48* of valve overlap.

With the intake and exhaust valve open together for that long of a period during boost, part of the intake charge will go out the exhaust instead of filling the cylinder and you lose engine torque and turbo spooling time especially at low rpm.

The solution is to keep the 192* .050" intake duration but shorten the 268* duration 20 degrees to around 248*.

Just a note at this point.
Normally we don't get that concerned with the advertised duration timing events and focus more on the .050" duration points.
In your case we are looking for performance in a working range from idle to 3500 rpm where valve motion is relatively slow and low valve lifts have greater effect.

The exhaust side is a different story.
There are 2 parts to the exhaust cycle.
The first part is the blow down period where the exhaust valve opens and the high pressure exhaust exits and continues until the cylinder pressure equals the exhaust system pressure somewhere after BDC.
This is where the turbo makes use of the exhaust energy that would have been wasted.
The second part is where the piston travels to TDC during the exhaust stroke and any pressure left in the cylinder acts against the piston and becomes a "pumping loss".
The more back pressure the turbo system creates the more pumping loss and the more exhaust pressure is present when the intake valve first opens.
At low rpm the exhaust gas will enter the intake port and reverse the flow of the intake charge.
On our turbo race engine at WOT, low rpm, when trying to get boost before launch, the exhaust gas would come up the intake runners far enough to melt the plastic ends on the injectors.

The goal is to minimize valve overlap.
At a low rpm application like yours there is plenty of time to evacuate the exhaust from the cylinder and since there is a benefit to closing the exhaust valve early, the exhaust valve duration can be less than the intake valve duration.

After consulting with one of my cam suppliers, a good combination would be an intake .050" duration of 192* and an advertise duration around 248*
The exhaust .050" duration of 184* with a 240* advertised duration.
That gives a lobe minor intensity of 56* which is still reasonable for valve train longevity especially if you use the heads that have hardened valve seats.

We want to start the exhaust evacuation early to minimize residual exhaust gas in the cylinder and reduce the valve overlap period so the LSA should be increased from the 110* stock spec.

If we use a LSA of 114* the overlap with the new lobe specs will be reduced from the stock 48* down to 16*

New cam spec:
Intake 192*/248*
Exhaust 184*/240*
LSA 114*

The cam can be set straight up or with 1 or 2 degrees advance
Static compression ratio between 8.0 and 8.5 depending on the amount of intercooling and final cam position.
To be safe just go for something closer to 8.0 which will keep the Dynamic Compression Ratio in the high 6s

Valve lift can be just over .400"

Idle will be super smooth with grunt power from 600 rpm.

Crower cams shows a variety of lobes in this range.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

motzingg
Registered User
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:16 am

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #10 by motzingg » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:10 pm

:shock: :wow:

that is awesome!

this is pretty much the exact same project i'm working on as well, small turbo for torque and efficiency. let the 6 do what it does best and pull. leave racing to the kids... haha! i'm too old for that, i just want to tow a car trailer across the rockies whenever it strikes my fancy.


Its reassuring to see that i got almost the same numbers from a turbo calc that you did. the 420 ft lbs sounds way too good to be true, but is spot on the number i came up with. I think that is assuming no wastegate loss, which my research leads me to believe is impractical.

I was initially looking at the TD-04E-16T from a 'hot' volvo v70 2.5 L as found in the V70R's. Cheap and plentiful, also very reliable and internally wastegated

After some more research, i'm concerned with having too small of a turbo, I'd like to start making power as low as 1500 so i can hold high gear on the highway, but if I have to climb a mountain, down shift into 4th and rev her up to 3000, will she cook the exhaust valves and turbo bearings?

Will it hurt the turbo to be blowing off most of the exhaust gas through an internal wastegate from 2500 up? And if I do increase the wastegate pressure will the intake temps get too high?


i'm quite a few months out on this project, still getting the basics sorted out (brakes, transmission, axle, etc) and daily driving the truck, so it will move slow, but I'd like to nail down a turbocharger so i can start lurking craigslist and junkyards waiting for something to come up cheap.


my latest thought is to grab the small cummins/holset HY35 that most of the late 90's 6bt 12v engines had. folks have said its too small, but i'm also working with a 240 instead of a 300 for now. my thought is to scrap together something quick and dirty to daily drive and start breaking it, then build up a dedicated platform once i've learned what brakes and what i got wrong on the first one.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #11 by johns3524 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:24 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Cam and compression considerations:
This is long and detailed because of it's importance.

New cam spec:
Intake 192*/248*
Exhaust 184*/240*
LSA 114*

The cam can be set straight up or with 1 or 2 degrees advance
Static compression ratio between 8.0 and 8.5 depending on the amount of intercooling and final cam position.
To be safe just go for something closer to 8.0 which will keep the Dynamic Compression Ratio in the high 6s
Valve lift can be just over .400"

Crower cams shows a variety of lobes in this range.


Well researched for sure..and dully noted. I can tell we will have a few things to discuss in coming days for sure.

I am responding to your other post about valve spring pressure now.. again dully noted.

I'm not against a new cam especially If there is a significant gain of performance in the lower rpms. I really perked up to the "Idle will be super smooth with grunt power from 600 rpm".. This interests me.

In planning this out, I understand I will need to watch CR making sure is is in the lowers 8's..how much will this effect any use NA?, Only time and use will tell possibly.

I suppose by now, you figured out my want of manual adjustment on-the-fly of MIXTURE, BOOST, and now my new love..TIMING.

With a vernier control cable I can micro adjust very precisely, so working out the details on the advance plate is soemthing I WILL be looking for sure..

Country Fried 6 mentioned it, and I was thinking about it already..so What comes to mind is...I'm sure your basic centrifugal timing can be set in a range...then you can tweak by vernier..probably setting it where the working range will allow for retard adjust and advance both..yet being able to push it all in to zero it out for starting or?..the neat part is..it's all a cable adjustment, like your manual choke..simple...Some of this may be necessary if/when you get a bad batch of fuel.

For me again the safeguarding of all of this is being abler to monitor the heat EGT,,and the fuel mixture (carb leaning device) In my mind, and AFR meter may just make you paranoid, thinking ur too far outta the box for the purists, but with this combination ur way past that IMHO...again the oil temps, pressures, and EGT reading along with your ears will tell you how close u may be to catastrophic issues.

I understand the problems of fuel pressure being indexed so, there really isn't much left to do except to choose a cam, pistons, and rings. I like SS valves at least, with a good valve job, and some prep on the ports, chambers..not much. ARP studs, a good 1024 gasket, basically then just need to enjoy the effect of the push pedal...
Last edited by johns3524 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #12 by johns3524 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:42 pm

motzingg wrote::shock: :wow: that is awesome!
this is pretty much the exact same project i'm working on as well, small turbo for torque and efficiency. let the 6 do what it does best and pull. leave racing to the kids... haha! i'm too old for that, i just want to tow a car trailer across the rockies whenever it strikes my fancy.


Pretty kewl, and I've made note of your turbo comments..that may change for us in a few months when the project gets more mature..at least for me.
One this i miss about my earlier years of "flying". I read about it again the other day. It was the concept of "FLYING THE MOTOR" This really means using the various knobs provided to get the most out of the motor at any altitude or use or situation. The airplane pretty much flies it self..the motor needs to be tweaked to get, speed, economy, longevity etc. all with levers and knobs in the cockpit...That pretty much what I want to do I guess.

I get that a racer wants maximum when racing with short bursts of power while shifting, watching for other cars, and cops etc. I got time..just want it to run sweet at any altitude get a good balance of power and economy and last for a while...and the constant tweaking helps keep me awake and interested.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #13 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:23 am

johns3524 wrote:In planning this out, I understand I will need to watch CR making sure is is in the lowers 8's..how much will this effect any use NA?, Only time and use will tell possibly.


Either advancing the stock cam or using the suggested new cam bumps the Dynamic CR up.
You would need to drop the static CR down to 8.5:1 to compensate just for NA use.

On paper, going from 8.5 to 8.0 CR is a 2% drop in engine thermal efficiency.
That's supposed to translate to a 2% decrease in torque over the entire power band.
That seems low to me.

The one thing that is sure, you get a lot more margin with gas octane at 8:1 CR and you don't get stuck using premium gas.
It also gives you a lot more room to play with manual adjustable timing on the fly.

As you can tell I'm really interested in this project.

Is this engine going into the Bronco?

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #14 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:03 am

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:In planning this out, I understand I will need to watch CR making sure is is in the lowers 8's..how much will this effect any use NA?, Only time and use will tell possibly.


Either advancing the stock cam or using the suggested new cam bumps the Dynamic CR up.
You would need to drop the static CR down to 8.5:1 to compensate just for NA use.

On paper, going from 8.5 to 8.0 CR is a 2% drop in engine thermal efficiency.
That's supposed to translate to a 2% decrease in torque over the entire power band.
That seems low to me.

The one thing that is sure, you get a lot more margin with gas octane at 8:1 CR and you don't get stuck using premium gas.
It also gives you a lot more room to play with manual adjustable timing on the fly.

As you can tell I'm really interested in this project.


Good morning. Well, I can appreciate the "interest" for sure. On my end putting these plans on paper has helped in the thinking process for me for sure, almost to the point of "over-thinking" as it always is for me. But as you wring out the plan eventually it will look clearer and solid as it translates into hard parts, and the intersections of no return are past, (mainly pistons and cam choices).

Another question has kept me awake some..that only mat be answered by reading, asking others, or testing:
"At what lowest RPM will this engine safely produce the most torque?' (all this while staying cool enuf for a practical DD)

Having a hunch about that rpm range..how can I best build some margins of strength, and reliability by other choices? Naturally all of the on-board tuning tools (leaning/enriching, boost and timing control) should handle whatever "influence" adjustments are necessary moment by moment) My gut tells me that it may not take much boost at that RPM but we'll see..

Of course timing is a critical factor..In my thinking I have thought of basically been thinking about (3) 12's as a starting point. 12 base, 12 centrifugal, and 12 manual advance..(and probably being all-in centrifugally at that lowest practical RPM point).. that could change of course.

I like the idea of non-ethanol premium as a base, but I know e85 is also part of the discussion. With the proper prep to the fuel system, (and it probably is a good idea) , using a Holley, it will be easy to build the carb if need be. I hate to paint myself totally into THAT corner though.

More thinking...AND reading.

But for now, pistons and cam choice. May I ask, it that an expensive "neighborhood" where those pistons you like are made?
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #15 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:55 pm

motzingg wrote::shock: :wow:
that is awesome! my latest thought is to grab the small cummins/holset HY35 that most of the late 90's 6bt 12v engines had. folks have said its too small,


hmmm..I'm not so sure about one of those myself..From what I've read, I would think it would be too big actually. It's capable of 20+lbs...which is kewl if you want to break things while testing I guess..be careful
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #16 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:20 pm

johns3524 wrote:
motzingg wrote::shock: :wow:
that is awesome! my latest thought is to grab the small cummins/holset HY35 that most of the late 90's 6bt 12v engines had. folks have said its too small,


hmmm..I'm not so sure about one of those myself..From what I've read, I would think it would be too big actually. It's capable of 20+lbs...which is kewl if you want to break things while testing I guess..be careful


As johns3524 said, it is too big for this application.
Most of the turbos used for diesel engines are designed for high pressure ratios and are not a good match for boost levels below 15 psi.
If you look at a compressor map you will notice the map gets very narrow below a pressure ratio of 2 or 15 psi.

The HY35 map shows a starting flow point of 10 lbs/min. This project needs a turbo that can flow 5 lbs/min without going into surge.

I couldn't find any specs on the TD04E-16T for the 2.5l Volvo V70 turbo.
Since it is used on a 2.5L engine I'm assuming it is too small for a 4.9l Ford six even at low rpm.
I was curious if it was small enough to possibly use it as a twin setup.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #17 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:56 pm

johns3524 wrote:Another question has kept me awake some..that only mat be answered by reading, asking others, or testing:
"At what lowest RPM will this engine safely produce the most torque?' (all this while staying cool enuf for a practical DD)


Is this engine for the Bronco?

The only time the engine would be worked hard enough for cooling issues for water temp or turbo turbine temp is if you are towing a heavy load up a long grade.
Otherwise there shouldn't be a problem even for short high boost sprints as in the passing lane or just for fun.

Of course timing is a critical factor..In my thinking I have thought of basically been thinking about (3) 12's as a starting point. 12 base, 12 centrifugal, and 12 manual advance..(and probably being all-in centrifugally at that lowest practical RPM point).. that could change of course.


I see you having to monitor several gauges as you drive.
One of them should be a vacuum/pressure gauge so can keep track of the intake manifold vacuum or pressure to help you adjust the timing.
During the times while cruising on a long level strip and showing high manifold vacuum you may want to be able to get the total timing out to 40 degrees to maximize the fuel mileage.

The engine will let you know about the centrifugal advance but it will probably be all in by 2000 rpm.

I like the idea of non-ethanol premium as a base, but I know e85 is also part of the discussion. With the proper prep to the fuel system, (and it probably is a good idea) , using a Holley, it will be easy to build the carb if need be. I hate to paint myself totally into THAT corner though.


I agree that running on E85 only and having to find E85 stations as you travel would not be a good plan.
There is always the water/methanol spray for those times where you might need to control detonation.

But for now, pistons and cam choice. May I ask, it that an expensive "neighborhood" where those pistons you like are made


I put the order in for my pistons this past Monday and I'm waiting for their engineering department to finish so the can give me a price.
I will let you know as soon as I get that info.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #18 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:13 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:Another question has kept me awake some..that only mat be answered by reading, asking others, or testing:
"At what lowest RPM will this engine safely produce the most torque?' (all this while staying cool enuf for a practical DD)


Is this engine for the Bronco? actually this is up for grabs at this point

The only time the engine would be worked hard enough for cooling issues for water temp or turbo turbine temp is if you are towing a heavy load up a long grade.
Otherwise there shouldn't be a problem even for short high boost sprints as in the passing lane or just for fun.

Of course timing is a critical factor..In my thinking I have thought of basically been thinking about (3) 12's as a starting point. 12 base, 12 centrifugal, and 12 manual advance..(and probably being all-in centrifugally at that lowest practical RPM point).. that could change of course.


I see you having to monitor several gauges as you drive.
One of them should be a vacuum/pressure gauge so can keep track of the intake manifold vacuum or pressure to help you adjust the timing.
During the times while cruising on a long level strip and showing high manifold vacuum you may want to be able to get the total timing out to 40 degrees to maximize the fuel mileage. We're on the same page

The engine will let you know about the centrifugal advance but it will probably be all in by 2000 rpm.

I like the idea of non-ethanol premium as a base, but I know e85 is also part of the discussion. With the proper prep to the fuel system, (and it probably is a good idea) , using a Holley, it will be easy to build the carb if need be. I hate to paint myself totally into THAT corner though.


I agree that running on E85 only and having to find E85 stations as you travel would not be a good plan.
There is always the water/methanol spray for those times where you might need to control detonation.

But for now, pistons and cam choice. May I ask, it that an expensive "neighborhood" where those pistons you like are made


I put the order in for my pistons this past Monday and I'm waiting for their engineering department to finish so the can give me a price.
I will let you know as soon as I get that info.
good info.....have a safe weekend..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #19 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:15 pm

I was thinking about the possibility of using mechanical fuel injection where you can manually control the main and secondary bypass and have full control of the fuel. No carb and the problem of boost referenced fuel pressure goes away.
Just a thought.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #20 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:48 pm

pmuller9 wrote:I was thinking about the possibility of using mechanical fuel injection where you can manually control the main and secondary bypass and have full control of the fuel. No carb and the problem of boost referenced fuel pressure goes away.
Just a thought.


Something to think about..and read up on of course..I'm sure they've made some advances since inception years ago..and since we're reading how about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_carburetor

AND: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix-Stromberg_pressure_carburetor

ps5 style actually ebay has a cple that were used on O470CI continentals in the 50-60s 230HP...well, more thinking I know.

I have decided to buy the leaning device from the maker as soon as he can ship, and try it on one of my Holley's' on the DD I have now. that may tell me if that type of thing is workable..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

country fried 6
Registered User
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:31 pm
Location: wc wisconsin

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #21 by country fried 6 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:25 pm

that sounds like a Tillotson carb used on snowmobiles in the 70's and weedwackers and the like up to this day. no float bowl just a vacuum pulse fuel pump mounted to the side.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #22 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:51 pm

country fried 6 wrote:that sounds like a Tillotson carb used on snowmobiles in the 70's and weedwackers and the like up to this day. no float bowl just a vacuum pulse fuel pump mounted to the side.


that sound right..shall we say "simple"?..of course those 470's and later 520s were very low RPM sixes..with massive bore though..(by comparison), but still pretty OLD SCHOOL..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #23 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:04 pm

johns3524 wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:I was thinking about the possibility of using mechanical fuel injection where you can manually control the main and secondary bypass and have full control of the fuel. No carb and the problem of boost referenced fuel pressure goes away.
Just a thought.


Something to think about..and read up on of course..I'm sure they've made some advances since inception years ago..and since we're reading how about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_carburetor

AND: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix-Stromberg_pressure_carburetor

ps5 style actually ebay has a cple that were used on O470CI continentals in the 50-60s 230HP...well, more thinking I know.

I have decided to buy the leaning device from the maker as soon as he can ship, and try it on one of my Holley's' on the DD I have now. that may tell me if that type of thing is workable..


Looks like barometric controlled mechanical throttle body fuel injection. Thanks for the links. Good stuff.

There seemed to be a lot of advances in piston engine tech up to the end of WWII. 4 valve heads roller valve trains ect... Then we kinda took a few steps backwards for a while.

Here is a link to someone that has a lot of miles with their converted Holley 2300.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... stcount=14
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... stcount=16

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #24 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:30 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:I was thinking about the possibility of using mechanical fuel injection where you can manually control the main and secondary bypass and have full control of the fuel. No carb and the problem of boost referenced fuel pressure goes away.
Just a thought.


Something to think about..and read up on of course..I'm sure they've made some advances since inception years ago..and since we're reading how about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_carburetor

AND: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix-Stromberg_pressure_carburetor

ps5 style actually ebay has a cple that were used on O470CI continentals in the 50-60s 230HP...well, more thinking I know.

I have decided to buy the leaning device from the maker as soon as he can ship, and try it on one of my Holley's' on the DD I have now. that may tell me if that type of thing is workable..


Looks like barometric controlled mechanical throttle body fuel injection. Thanks for the links. Good stuff.

There seemed to be a lot of advances in piston engine tech up to the end of WWII. 4 valve heads roller valve trains ect... Then we kinda took a few steps backwards for a while.

Here is a link to someone that has a lot of miles with their converted Holley 2300.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... stcount=14
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... stcount=16


good input..I notice that that posting talks about a different approach as the one I'm considering but good to look at none the less.

The Percy adjust a-jet ..

I have the hope that the Device I'm looking at is a complete adjust form idle-cutoff to full rich with a lever..not an adjustment screw..we'll see.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #25 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:18 pm

johns3524 wrote:good input..I notice that that posting talks about a different approach as the one I'm considering but good to look at none the less.

The Percy adjust a-jet ..

I have the hope that the Device I'm looking at is a complete adjust form idle-cutoff to full rich with a lever..not an adjustment screw..we'll see.

He was using the Percy Adjust-a-jet.
He connected a cable to the adjustment screws so adjustments could be made from the driver.

What would be different?

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #26 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:31 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:good input..I notice that that posting talks about a different approach as the one I'm considering but good to look at none the less.

The Percy adjust a-jet ..

I have the hope that the Device I'm looking at is a complete adjust form idle-cutoff to full rich with a lever..not an adjustment screw..we'll see.

He was using the Percy Adjust-a-jet.
He connected a cable to the adjustment screws so adjustments could be made from the driver.

What would be different?


This device is actually a full range from idle-cutoff, or full lean to full rich (at least as advertized). It has a lever on the SIDE of the block that will hook directly to an aircraft style McFarland or other mfg 's vernier cable.

http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?PartNumber=MC600-72

http://www.rotaryeng.net/HOW-TO-INSTALL-HOLLEY.html

I must admit I've only been in-touch via-e-mail. I probably should reserve judgement till I actually view it in my hand.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #27 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:57 pm

johns3524 wrote:This device is actually a full range from idle-cutoff, or full lean to full rich (at least as advertized). It has a lever on the SIDE of the block that will hook directly to an aircraft style McFarland or other mfg 's vernier cable.

http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?PartNumber=MC600-72

http://www.rotaryeng.net/HOW-TO-INSTALL-HOLLEY.html

I must admit I've only been in-touch via-e-mail. I probably should reserve judgement till I actually view it in my hand.


This is really cool stuff that I didn't know was available.

The Mcfarlane unit has a 90* turn from off to full rich. That seems to be a little coarse making it hard to make very small adjustments but like you said, wait until the unit is in your hands.

Which Holley carb will you be testing this on?

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #28 by johns3524 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:43 am

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:This device is actually a full range from idle-cutoff, or full lean to full rich (at least as advertized). It has a lever on the SIDE of the block that will hook directly to an aircraft style McFarland or other mfg 's vernier cable.

http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?PartNumber=MC600-72

http://www.rotaryeng.net/HOW-TO-INSTALL-HOLLEY.html

I must admit I've only been in-touch via-e-mail. I probably should reserve judgement till I actually view it in my hand.


This is really cool stuff that I didn't know was available.

The Mcfarlane unit has a 90* turn from off to full rich. That seems to be a little coarse making it hard to make very small adjustments but like you said, wait until the unit is in your hands.

Which Holley carb will you be testing this on?


Actually I'll probably try it first on a 4 barrel Holley to see what kind of flow is available then on a 2 barrel for full install. It could be used on a 4 barrel (I have a couple of spares) though for sure if it's usable at all. Right now I don't have a 2300 Holley, or a 4 barrel adapter for my Clifford intake but I could make one up.

The McDonald Vernier adjustment is like the control knobs on any airplane that is used for three functions or at least two on a small plane...throttle, mixture, and prop adjustments (if the plane has a governed constant-speed prop installed)

They will work as a pull type of cable, or micro-adjust by twisting them left(out) or right (in). When you want full release of control you "push" on the button in the middle to release the cable for full push in. You CAN also pull it out and push it in you depress the button on the knob. This has been common for many years. The middle button is like a lock for the position ur twisted (adjusted) to.

This way you micro-adjust but twisting left or right which uses threads to control small increments of pull or push. You can "dial'm in as you wish.

In actual use, all controls are "pulled" out at shutdown except the prop control (it is parked at "full rpms" generally because the prop was "pushed in" on final approach in preparation for a go-around if needed)..
Throttle OUT at idle, mixture OUT with fuel at idle-cutoff (full lean). On start, the mixture full rich (in) engage starter with hand on throttle for cold idle firing and adjust. On takeoff roll. mixture "in" (full rich), prop (if equipped) full "in" (full rpm), throttle "in" (full power/manifold pressure)..When pushing all in...press center of knob with palm..and "firewall it"...In a truck/car you could use a vernier control cable for a poor man's cruise control...

let's see, throttle(cruise), mixture, spark adv, boost (4)..+choke all different colors/sizes (to find in low light)..that's the knobs...then go to the gauges....
Last edited by johns3524 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #29 by johns3524 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:07 pm

I actually like the the lower pressure approach of the "draw thru" of "can this work".....makes it all even simpler..and my other controls work as well..less fabbing.. no inter-cooler..and I am familiar with draw thru..well..need to get an engine built first..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #30 by pmuller9 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:43 pm

johns3524 wrote:I actually like the the lower pressure approach of the "draw thru" of "can this work".....makes it all even simpler..and my other controls work as well..less fabbing.. no inter-cooler..and I am familiar with draw thru..well..need to get an engine built first..


There are reasons why you see mainly “blow thru” carburetor setups for turbo applications rather than “draw thru”
and the lack of “draw thru" systems have very little to do with the present day use of EFI.

There are 2 air pumps in the system, the turbocharger and the engine.
The engine determines the linear airflow (as in cfm) between it and the turbo.
It is mainly a function of engine displacement, engine rpm and the volumetric efficiency at a given rpm.

The turbo controls the airflow coming into the compressor.
Inlet airflow is a function of the outlet flow multiplied by the pressure ratio or boost level.

Just for clarification the engine sees more air by weight after being compressed by the turbo but the airflow is still close to the same by volume flow.
The engine still pumps ½ of its displacement x rpm x VE the difference being the air is more dense.

If you place a carb after the turbo on the intake manifold it still gets sized about the same as if the engine was NA since the flow is about the same.

However the airflow on inlet side of the turbo compressor is proportional to the outlet flow (engine airflow) multiplied by the pressure ratio or boost.

This means that a carb that is specified for the engine at zero boost needs to increase in size as the boost increases.

Let’s look at your specific engine project at 3500 rpm.

At zero boost and a VE of 80% the engine airflow is about 250 cfm and the turbo inlet airflow is about the same
A 350 cfm 2bbl or a 390 4bbl would work fine.

At 10psi of boost and an intercooler with 60% efficiency, the turbo inlet airflow has jumped to 400 cfm.
In this case a 500 to 600 cfm carb would be needed for a “draw thru” set-up while the “blow thru” would still only need the 350 to 400 cfm carb.

If the goal is a low rpm high torque engine the larger carb set-up is not optimum.

Second: Any restriction on the inlet side of the turbo decreases the turbo’s output.
The turbo multiplies the inlet pressure to produce the outlet pressure.
If you reduce the inlet pressure by traveling to "Mile High" Denver or stuffing a carb in front of it, the output will be reduced.
If you drive the turbo harder to regain a particular output level the outlet air temp will be higher than before.

Third: If a small carb is used for a “draw thru” the turbo could be forced into a surge cycle as the boost climbs beyond a certain point causing possible damage
same as using too big of a turbo for a particular engine size. I’ve had that happen once.

Intercooling: Most air to air intercoolers have at least a 60% efficiency.

In your case the turbo outlet temps will be at least 200*F @ 10 psi of boost @ 3500 rpm using an outside air temp of 75*F.
With a 60% intercooler the engine intake temps will be 130* and the engine torque shows as 425 ft.lbs

Without an intercooler the engine intake air temp will be that 200*
The engine torque decreases to 375 ft.lbs and the chance of detonation will increase a lot.
If you have to pull the timing back to prevent detonation then the engine torque will decrease even more.

Hope this is helpful

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #31 by johns3524 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:50 am

pmuller9 wrote: There are reasons why you see mainly “blow thru” carburetor setups for turbo applications rather than “draw thru” ......detonation then the engine torque will decrease even more.
Hope this is helpful


Yes very helpful. I should admit that I'm not seriously thing about a "draw-thru" arrangement..it was one of those times of thinking out loud while typing and I pressed "enter"...but it was too late. And, I DO plan to have an inter-cooler.

I really hoping to hear back soon from the guy with the leaning device. It has me concerned that I can't get him on the phone at this point too see what his schedule is. But I need to focus on cleaning up my small "shop" for this project anyway getting some other things done and out of the way. I think I'll assemble that .060 over block and pistons to get it off my stand, and put it away for now.

BTW, here's another question for ya...

Have you seen a gauge that can measure and display degrees of advance BTDC live in real time INSIDE THE CAB? You'd think someone would build that into a tach readout...

Well I appreciate the input for sure, and wish you well on your 240 endeavor..keep the faith...and..
"keep those cards and letters comin' in"
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #32 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:35 am

johns3524 wrote:BTW, here's another question for ya...

Have you seen a gauge that can measure and display degrees of advance BTDC live in real time INSIDE THE CAB? You'd think someone would build that into a tach readout...



I haven't use it but here is one

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39382077/dsg1401brochure.pdf

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #33 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:03 am

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:BTW, here's another question for ya...
Have you seen a gauge that can measure and display degrees of advance BTDC live in real time INSIDE THE CAB? You'd think someone would build that into a tach readout...


I haven't use it but here is one

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39382077/dsg1401brochure.pdf


Good morning..
That looks like a sturdy unit, thanks for the link. I.m going to give that some thought when I'm actally workin on the block.
Another question I've pondered over is the oil-drain-back. (turbo). While looking at other blocks for turbos, I've noticed that some actually have tapped some threads in the passenger side block for an AN fitting...have you ever thought about that? Some might wonder why you would actually put a hole in you block on purpose I suppose when a welded up oil pan would do the job.

Another thing I've been thinking about is using the HD exh manifold that Stevens sells. And since this IS a ground-up turbo build, why not use the stock log?

Doing both of those things might be a space saver, in addition to being unique. I just have to get comfortable machining that intake for a good seal for a 2 barrel..thoughts?

If I use the standard heating method for the intake, it makes it easier to not use the heater in the summertime, although I could do an exotic shutoff valve arrangement I suppose...

Lets have a good week...and hopefully not an icy one ;;

JS
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #34 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:51 pm

johns3524 wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:BTW, here's another question for ya...
Have you seen a gauge that can measure and display degrees of advance BTDC live in real time INSIDE THE CAB? You'd think someone would build that into a tach readout...


I haven't use it but here is one

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39382077/dsg1401brochure.pdf


Another thing I've been thinking about is using the HD exh manifold that Stevens sells. And since this IS a ground-up turbo build, why not use the stock log? (intake) Doing both of those things might be a space saver, in addition to being unique. I just have to get comfortable machining that intake for a good seal for a 2 barrel..thoughts?...


Having said this, I DO realize that some performance may suffer as a result..just wondering how much..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #35 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:14 pm

I don't think you could machine the stock intake enough to gain any performance over just using a 2V to 1V adapter. However if your comfortable welding cast iron you could slice the 1 V center section out (carb base) and build a 2 V center out of steel plate or tubing to replace it. From my A&P mechanic training I do like your ideas on being able to adjust timing and fuel mix from the cab, good luck on your build :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #36 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:56 pm

bubba22349 wrote:I don't think you could machine the stock intake enough to gain any performance over just using a 2V to 1V adapter. However if your comfortable welding cast iron you could slice the 1 V center section out (carb base) and build a 2 V center out of steel plate or tubing to replace it. From my A&P mechanic training I do like your ideas on being able to adjust timing and fuel mix from the cab, good luck on your build :nod:


Thanks 4 the input bubba, I actually have been interested in one of those adapters. Abut that, have you noticed that the add for those on Mike's site doesn't seem to show the correct orientation? I'd like to see one that is specific to a 300 and see what it looked like. I think I'd order one just to have it.

Thanks again for the comments..and about fuel mix/timing from inside while "flying", for me it is what would make this project work..I hope the guy gets back to me soon about the carb leaning device...that piece of info is very important to me at this point.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #37 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:23 pm

bubba22349 wrote:I don't think you could machine the stock intake enough to gain any performance over just using a 2V to 1V adapter. However if your comfortable welding cast iron you could slice the 1 V center section out (carb base) and build a 2 V center out of steel plate or tubing to replace it. From my A&P mechanic training I do like your ideas on being able to adjust timing and fuel mix from the cab, good luck on your build :nod:


With some further "thinking"..I really wonder if just using a Clifford with a water heater is probably a good approach. Other than being bigger and more in the way while trying to fit it in the engine bay, it DOES do a pretty good job of heating and balanced COOLIng of the intake with it's water approach. I guess we'll see what I end up doing about that problem.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #38 by pmuller9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:30 pm

Bubba made a point that the 1V center section of the stock manifold is a bottle neck and would be a restriction unless it was modified. I would have to agree.

Aftermarket aluminum intakes have larger runners for upper rpm performance and are not ideal for this project.
Having said that, the manifold just bolts on and you're done. The turbo will warm the air under boost but it still may need some heat in the manifold when cruising on cold days when there is no boost.
I like your idea of a simple water shut off valve. You need another control cable in the cab. LOL

I would also take a close look at the bottom half of the stock EFI manifold. It had long equal length runners that have small cross sectional areas.
You could fabricate a log that would bolt to it that would accommodate either a 2bbl or 4bbl carb.

The HD exhaust manifold may not flow quite as well as the EFI but it sure makes tha turbo installation much easier.
I would be inclined to use it. The turbo can bolt to the manifold flange by way of a simple adapter and there would be very little heat loss to drive the turbo.

We always used the oil pan for the turbo oil return. You can weld on any size AN fitting you need to minimize oil return restriction.

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #39 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:10 pm

Thanks to both of you above posters this am. I think I have come to a decision about what parts to start collecting regarding the intake exhaust situation. I will order the following soon.

1. A new HD exhaust manifold from Steven Parts (talked to him this am)
2. A new 2>1 adapter from Classic Inline s. I talked to "Mike" this am and he said the orientation is right and they are now in stock.
3. A new Holley carb style leaning device (hopefully he will get in shipping mode soon)
4. A new method of manually adjusting advance applied to a standard re-curved diz. (workin on that and will take up pmullers help in that process likely)

As I already have tow (2) standard intake manifolds, I should be able to fit one up to utilize a Holley 2300 and also the hot-air heating of the standard HD exh. This will at least let me fab up all of the other stuff I need to get underway and leaves room to modify it all as I go should I want to tear open an intake log and mod it as discussed for an improvement. At least it will be drivable with all of the other controls I want to test..and it can only benefit by improvement as it goes. right?

Oh, and I forgot..I most likely WILL poke a hole in the oil pan for the oil drain..and use a big-OL AN line...

I should be able to get this built and installed on my engine stand for breaking in without too much trouble and then deal with the inter-cooler install in the vehicle. Thanks all for patience..I have a lot of work to do..and budgeting as well. and some shoppe cleaning..before I even have the room..

As I have mentioned in a post or two B4, to sum up at the risk of being redundant, (redundancy..a condition that many "experienced" in life succumb to as a result of forgetting what they have already said), I merely want to be able to drive this inline 6 along with little or no trouble while being able all the while to constantly and successfully add and monitor the use of...

"a'little bit of throttle,... a'little bit of mixture...a'little bit timing...a'little bitof bbbbbbbbbbooooooooost..." OOPPS!.. this could be a tune..if put together (tuned) properly....
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

about "sending" a PM

Post #40 by johns3524 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:09 pm

Hey there..I may be missing a button..or some feature..or ??

I have sent a that's still in my OUTBOX. WHO sends these?...I can't find anything in FAQ's, so forgive me if I'm a newbie...but how does one send a PM..must it be recvd by the party b4 it goes?...anyway..If anyone will inform me of the protocol..I'd be obliged..I ..enlighten me...

Edit:...now I've got it...

Thank you all.
Last edited by johns3524 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6860
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #41 by xctasy » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:46 pm

See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70844

xctasy wrote:
All you need is some Area 51 Technology!. You have no choice but to use the stuff you have, your under carb adaptor you have, the carb you have, and take the carb to a machinist and have him shave off all of your existing carb's choke air horn and carb mounting flange so it ends up like the ones on the outer Chrysler 340 and 440 six pack Holley carb below.
Image

Then use an adjustable main jet to operate cold start enrichment.

There are two types, but I'd recomend the one the Mazda Rotory guys use, sourced from Tom McNeilly tomcn@earthlink.net for US $150 dollars excluding post and packaging.These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft

Tom McNeilly
14001 East Williams Field Rd.
Gilbert, AZ 85296
International phone number is +1-602-899-7613

He's in Arizona, USA. Almost nothing any good comes from anywhere else! Hear that Azcoupe?

Northwest Aero Products also has them available. They are at
13812 179th Avenue SE
Monroe, WA 98272
International phone number +1-360-805-8183
Call displayed telephone number to ask for respective email address of Northwest Aero Products.

These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft


Details
Here is some information about the Holley mixture control kit. It is best suited for a two barrel 350 or 500 CFM Holley carburetor. However, the unit has been successfully used on large four barrel carburetors. The mixture control WILL NOT fit other makes and models of carburetors! The unit replaces the fixed main jets with a rotating valve that is remotely operated by a push pull cable. The unit will go from total idle cut-off to overly rich by rotating the shaft, while the engine is running. Installation is very simple with step by step instructions provided.

Due to the outrageous cost of materials and the inflationary state of our economy,the price of the kit has recently been raised to $150.00.

The mixture control body is CNC machined from 6061-T6 aluminum which is alodine treated, the shaft is stainless steel and the screws are plated steel.

The first picture is what comes in the kit. The mixture control plate is in the background with the accelerator pump extension arm., power valve block off plug, and installation bolts in the foreground. I also include a set of three gaskets which are not shown.


The kit
Image

An example fitted to a 4-bbl carb with its choke air horn still attached
Image



The top up position gives a carb a 150% enrichment, about 9:1 air fuel ratio, while turning it back makes it a normal functioing carb at some point. So you can remove the choke, and use the first third of movement as cold sart enrichment, and a working portion as a closed loop stoich control, and then t rest an open loop performance mixture. Each portion can be cruise controlled within an EGT or single O2 sensor stricture. The maker used old Marvel Schelber tricks in his Ellisons injection, and the Holley 2300 series has the worst roosters tail around, and adding the Tom McNeilly kit kills two bad birds (turbo charge density air fuel control and bad mixture distirbution and too large atomisation fuel ball micron sizes over 70 microns) with one simple 150 US dollar stone.


Love what your doing.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #42 by johns3524 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:01 am

xctasy wrote:See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70844

xctasy wrote:
All you need is some Area 51 Technology!. You have no choice but to use the stuff you have, your under carb adaptor you have, the carb you have, and take the carb to a machinist and have him shave off all of your existing carb's choke air horn and carb mounting flange so it ends up like the ones on the outer Chrysler 340 and 440 six pack Holley carb below.
Image

Then use an adjustable main jet to operate cold start enrichment.

There are two types, but I'd recomend the one the Mazda Rotory guys use, sourced from Tom McNeilly tomcn@earthlink.net for US $150 dollars excluding post and packaging.These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft

Tom McNeilly
14001 East Williams Field Rd.
Gilbert, AZ 85296
International phone number is +1-602-899-7613

He's in Arizona, USA. Almost nothing any good comes from anywhere else! Hear that Azcoupe?

Northwest Aero Products also has them available. They are at
13812 179th Avenue SE
Monroe, WA 98272
International phone number +1-360-805-8183
Call displayed telephone number to ask for respective email address of Northwest Aero Products.

These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft


Details
Here is some information about the Holley mixture control kit. It is best suited for a two barrel 350 or 500 CFM Holley carburetor. However, the unit has been successfully used on large four barrel carburetors. The mixture control WILL NOT fit other makes and models of carburetors! The unit replaces the fixed main jets with a rotating valve that is remotely operated by a push pull cable. The unit will go from total idle cut-off to overly rich by rotating the shaft, while the engine is running. Installation is very simple with step by step instructions provided.

Due to the outrageous cost of materials and the inflationary state of our economy,the price of the kit has recently been raised to $150.00.

The mixture control body is CNC machined from 6061-T6 aluminum which is alodine treated, the shaft is stainless steel and the screws are plated steel.

The first picture is what comes in the kit. The mixture control plate is in the background with the accelerator pump extension arm., power valve block off plug, and installation bolts in the foreground. I also include a set of three gaskets which are not shown.


The kit
Image

An example fitted to a 4-bbl carb with its choke air horn still attached
Image



The top up position gives a carb a 150% enrichment, about 9:1 air fuel ratio, while turning it back makes it a normal functioing carb at some point. So you can remove the choke, and use the first third of movement as cold sart enrichment, and a working portion as a closed loop stoich control, and then t rest an open loop performance mixture. Each portion can be cruise controlled within an EGT or single O2 sensor stricture. The maker used old Marvel Schelber tricks in his Ellisons injection, and the Holley 2300 series has the worst roosters tail around, and adding the Tom McNeilly kit kills two bad birds (turbo charge density air fuel control and bad mixture distirbution and too large atomisation fuel ball micron sizes over 70 microns) with one simple 150 US dollar stone.


Love what your doing.


Thank you for this..I actually have all of it...and glad you chimed in...I know you're the one who brought this post to this forum..I really need to know if this fellow will ship soon. I like the idea, just want to know how realistic his approach is, and if it is not I will look for a different approach...thank you for your post.

I'm not used to dealing with people who have not good phone numbers or contact info. Can he be contacted?...thanks again for your reply.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6860
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #43 by xctasy » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:17 am

Yes he can, but he's a certified Aviation/Aeronautical supplier, and they require a special handshake to sort the wheat from the chaff. That's why he has no advertising to speak off, and what is supplied is via mail address to a company in the first instance, with his email under sufferance, and then a company phone number, assumably only under fear of death. When you deal with planes, you don't want a raft of civil aviation queries which aren't followed up by harmonizing paperwork.The best bet is via land mail, then email to cover it off, then phone to confirm. A three chorded string isn't easily broken. You'll have to be prepared to deal with others all the way through.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #44 by johns3524 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:03 am

xctasy wrote:Yes he can, but he's a certified Aviation/Aeronautical supplier, and they require a special handshake to sort the wheat from the chaff. That's why he has no advertising to speak off, and what is supplied is via mail address to a company in the first instance, with his email under sufferance, and then a company phone number, assumably only under fear of death. When you deal with planes, you don't want a raft of civil aviation queries which aren't followed up by harmonizing paperwork.The best bet is via land mail, then email to cover it off, then phone to confirm. A three chorded string isn't easily broken. You'll have to be prepared to deal with others all the way through.

ok. well. I'll sleep on that info, then begin with that in the am.....

thank you
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3321
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #45 by pmuller9 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:29 pm

johns3524 wrote:Is this engine for the Bronco? actually this is up for grabs at this point

But for now, pistons and cam choice. May I ask, is that an expensive "neighborhood" where those pistons you like are made

I put the order in for my pistons this past Monday and I'm waiting for their engineering department to finish so the can give me a price.
I will let you know as soon as I get that info.

Autotec called today and gave me the price for pistons and pins at $487.50

It would be great if you could put this engine in a vehicle behind an overdrive transmission (5 speed)

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #46 by johns3524 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:38 am

pmuller9 wrote:
johns3524 wrote:Is this engine for the Bronco? actually this is up for grabs at this point

But for now, pistons and cam choice. May I ask, is that an expensive "neighborhood" where those pistons you like are made

I put the order in for my pistons this past Monday and I'm waiting for their engineering department to finish so the can give me a price.
I will let you know as soon as I get that info.

Autotec called today and gave me the price for pistons and pins at $487.50 That sounds about what I would expect for special pistons

It would be great if you could put this engine in a vehicle behind an overdrive transmission (5 speed)


About the vehicle, yes I have been thinking about that. Currently I drive two Broncos and both of them w/o overdrive by choice at this point. My signature one only has about maybe 1500 miles on it. I drove it about 70 miles yesterday. My other one is operating without a top (by design) and in the summertime can be used for that "fresh air fix" that a motorcycle gives along with serving as a PU truck when the top is peeled back. I can't imagine being without either one of these rigs but neither needs overdrive to serve their purpose, and neither one is really a cross-country rig, but I don't really need a x country rig much any more so..(.on and on.) I was even looking at something in the 60's that a 240/300 would fit into fairly easily..but...again..more thinking.

About the only thing that has really interests me is a either a 2WD version of an 80-86 Bronco slammed, or a Super-cab version of those years on a Bronco frame (I like the years, and the single gas tank config, and short turning radius) At this point, where I would use this engine project is unclear yet..can u tell? If money was no option..I wouldn't mind starting with a t-bucket frame etc..dream on... and just use a taaaaaalllll nine inch and c-6..never letting the foot off the throttle...

At this point, I can see this motor going into my 85 Bronco which already has a c-6, and use it for a tow vehicle if need be...A very carefully operated tow vehicle..

(I actually know where sits a very clean 86 Bronco, wth a 300, c-6 already..that I could buy...my reason for bolt-on choices for test-bed reasons)
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

User avatar
johns3524
Registered User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: a new "blow-through" build..

Post #47 by johns3524 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:38 pm

I wanted to update this thread and thank those who contributed to my progress. I have had a few life direction changes that influence my car interests and have decided NOT to continue with a TURBO- blow thru motor build at this time. I WILL continue to pursue a few of the things learned while on the journey..namely the use of an adjustable timing feature (in-cab) and a vernier mixture control for a Holley 2300 if I can get the MGF'er to ship the kit....Anyway..best wishes to those of you who aspire to TURBO boost a motor..it's a worthy venture. My future interest will focus more on economy, reliability and ease of maintenance...all of which still keeps my head "under-the-hood"..

Happy wrenchin'..don't hurt yourselves..
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests