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Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Moderator: Mod Squad

95cranker
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Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #1 by 95cranker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:01 am

So ive been putzing around the forums for a while now ad i'm having trouble choosing the right one I like the features of the MS3 but also the MS2 but don't think that i need them YET. What do you think I should choose? :help:

pmuller9
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:43 pm

The MS3 supports sequential fuel injection and sequential ‘coil on plug’ ignition.
The MS2 only supports batch fuel injection and batch (wasted spark) ignition.

If you want future upgrades without limits then get the MS3.

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rocklord
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #3 by rocklord » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:23 am

The MS2 can be upgraded to the MS3, but it would be a little more expensive than purchasing the MS3 initially.
From diyautotune.com an assembled MS2 v3.57 costs $468, an assembled MS3X costs $692.
An upgrade from MS2 to MS3X would include the processor daughterboard ($230), the MS3X expansion card ($110), and a new case ($42).

So, if you purchase an MS2 first, then upgrade it to MS3X later, the total cost would be $850.
That would be $158 more than purchasing an MS3X. This doesn't take into account how much you could recoup by selling the MS2 processor daughterboard and case.

A plus for Megasquirt is that the v3.0 and v3.57 boards are used for MS1, MS2, and MS3 allowing for upgrades as needs change.

And who knows what upgrades they are working on that will be better than the MS3.

Hope this helps.
Dan

Currently Own
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1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
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95cranker
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #4 by 95cranker » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:18 pm

Thank you all, i just couldn't decide. :nod:

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xctasy
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #5 by xctasy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:55 am

95cranker wrote:Thank you all, i just couldn't decide. :nod:




Feature creep is a dangreous IT disease.


When I was doing remote site data downloads, having someone you could call and do a Ghost Session was more iportant than having the lastest 64 bit data logger. The Space Shuttle might have had its problems, but the pre XT computer system was not one of them.



:hmmm: Time for a picture of IT under a Maine Manhole cover or slot drain.....


IMHO, I'd Dumb it down a notch . MS has a bluetooth serial adapter option to allow wireless programming of the thing, so MS3 will do fine.

DIYAutotune has the services of some of the smartest guys around to help, so you don't have add all the other features. Sequential injection is really only sequential under 3000 rpm in a six, and EDIS or TFI can run with a 36-1 cut out ring.


Without fully squential, you can still run Independent Throttle Bodies, Turbo Chargers or Superchargers.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

95cranker
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #6 by 95cranker » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:56 pm

I'm going to head for the MS2 In the long run I know that I won't have the ability to use sequential injection, but it's cheaper and it will do fine. Hoping to do a mild cam upgrade and turbo but it's going to be a while, have to get my truck road legal first. :thanks:

ahawks9er
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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #7 by ahawks9er » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:32 pm

Along the lines of Xtacy's reasoning, I'd been eyeballing the Microsquirt for it's small size and enclosure. ($350 + harness) It's based on MS2 architecture. Batch injection and EDIS are certainly sufficient for my own purposes, but your own goals may point you to the more feature-rich MS3. I will say that it's nice to get your rig running and tuned on MS BEFORE a bunch of mods so sooner can be better.

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Re: Recommended MS for future upgrades?

Post #8 by xctasy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 am

I think having excellent ground support is better than excellent system bases. Yes, you've gotta have this and that, but sometimes, you just have to take a step forward. MegaSquirt 2E does a lot of stuff, but its the guys who ask for you data log who are just exceptionally good in making systems work. This car started off with a variety of induction systems, and its always been reliable and all of it is based on the exceptional work of Steve, the ground technician who can do real time data logs. You pay for it, and you have to do the on site mods to make it work by giving honest feedback, but dang it, its the best system around. And its an EECIV&V EGR and AIR loving emissions Nazi guy who told you that (me :oops: :oops: )

Why would you use any thing else but a bank fire EFi port style EFi. The injectors don't even have to be perfectly spaced and placed.

And ITB throttle bodies are practically free. First system was a 90 mm single throttle body, then Mike1157 went to BMW ITB's, with the same computer system. Injector dead time was easier to set with ITB's and even with the single throttle body, Port EFi system, the fixed an idle problem that dogged the 250 six really fast by simple deduction. There isn't another system with that kind of back up.

Mike has a " simply as smart as a NASA ground tech" data man, and DIY Autotune made it all work. You pay for it, BUT you Get Results.



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79657&p=615713#p615713
xctasy wrote:Okay. All that work has been done. ITB's are way easier! ITB's can be run bank fire (by alternating the injector sequence from odd to even), or sequential, but importantly, even if they have six injectors, they don't have to be port EFI with welded in or drilled in bungs. That makes a port on port set up hugely easier with MegaSquirt 2 or 3.

If going it alone, you need to find better people and companies who will work with you rather than guiding you down THEIR preferred path.

Choices are about what you want. In my humble opinion, side drafting an in line Ford small six is not a great idea. With side draft Webers, you cannot match the efficiency of a correctly set up & calibrated MAP system from an unleaded gas 185 to 216 hp 3.9 or 4 liter six from 1988 to 1993. They were down drafted in the 1984 to 1992 EFI x flow 4.1 liters, and then up-drafted for the 88 to 93 OHC sixes.

Since 1984 to 1997 in Australia, EECIV was Fords chosen way to integrate ignition, EFi and meet emissions and reliability requirements, without a MAF sensor, and just one really big 70 to 75 mm throttle body.


Moving to a Weber triple carb system, well, it can work fine, but probably not in a cramped engine bay like the Vintage In-lines intake and Falcon has. No real room exists.

Normally, switching to an aftermarket ecu will bring huge and completely unnecessary cost, both in hardware and tuning. Almost certainly won't drive as well as a stock Speed Density EECIV EFI from a 4 liter OHC Ford. Again, either V6, or the Australian 3.9 or 4 liter OHC from 1988 to 1993 always gives good results, and you can ITB it.

Since the USA just doesn't have as many hard core 4 liter in line six Fords, you have to decide if you want to triple Weber it or ITB EFi or go to some less than ideal stand in non port Throttle Body system (EZ EFI, FITECH, Holley Sniper et al ) which has a whole bunch of other issues, especially on an in line six.

a91what "SendMeUrDataLog" does it all for ITB's from base maps, and he's done everything with a M52 BMW ITB on Mike1157's 4.1 Maverick engine.
Image

So that's everything from normally aspirated 3.2 liter to unturboed or turboed 4.1 liters. 195 cubes to 250 cubes, boosted or non boosted. Big cams or little ones.

The cross over point is easy, GM did it first with its speed density TBi for years and years. GM guys provided the 3 bar MAP sensor, the rest is easy.

Turbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGvzTMlJ3-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGvzTMlJ3-U

Non turbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_tM-FYwnI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_tM-FYwnI

And the first day out with ITB'S and no turbo and an a91 what? Stevie MegaSquirt tune...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... b37v0Zb6lA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb37v0Zb6lA


Easy.

Three DCNF style ITB's from Jenvey or some ATB400's from DellOrto or Weber, and you don't even need anything other than a log head to mount it on.

ITB's are way easier than single throttle body systems.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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