Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

Ford Starter System

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Ford Starter System

Post #1 by DaGr8Tim » Wed May 08, 2013 8:30 pm

I'm trying to get my 75 Jeep started and because I don't have a key and I don't fully trust the wiring, I'm trying to take this in steps. Bump the motor with the starter, check for spark, nail down the fuel.

Anyways, my Jeep has a ford style starter with the solenoid (relay) mounted elsewhere besides the starter. In the past, I've jumped the two large terminals (with the key in the run position) on a suspected bad solenoid to get a car started. This style of solenoid is kind of hard to do that with.
Image

I also can't get anything out of applying 12vdc to the output terminal that goes to the starter. I got some sparks and my jumper got hot.

I'm wondering what could be wrong. I've never had a solenoid not turn the starter when you got 12 volts to the output terminal. Bad Starter? Bad Ground on the solenoid? It's pretty crusty under there. Do I try to apply 12 volts to the starter directly? Do I pull the starter and test it off the vehicle?

The other day I was trying to start it and got the starter to turn for a split second.

I'm also trying to avoid investing any money that I can't recoup part of if I decide to call this a wash.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9133
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed May 08, 2013 8:57 pm

You can use a remote starter switch hooking it to the battery side and the S term. That is the best way. Or short across terminals. Another way is go across from battery to starter terminals (all those Amps can be hard on tools). If you have all ready done one those you should pull the starter and test it off the jeep hook up your jumper cables up the ground - to the case (hold on tight) and then just touch power + to the the starters cable lug momentary. :nod: or you could take to your local auto parts store were they likely test it for free. good luck
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
80broncoman
Global Moderator
Posts: 3315
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:49 pm
Location: The Great state of Ohio!!

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #3 by 80broncoman » Wed May 08, 2013 11:44 pm

Agree on using the S terminal. Doing it the other way it putting ALL current though your jumper. You could get burned.

Now either of those ways puts Full batt voltage into the starter input wire.

If it doesn't crank it could be
1 bad starter
2 bad ground for the starter
3 Bad connection on the either of the batt terminals.
4 engine locked
OAPSE Union Member

Real men don't wear Bowties
When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #4 by DaGr8Tim » Thu May 09, 2013 7:20 am

80broncoman wrote:Agree on using the S terminal. Doing it the other way it putting ALL current though your jumper. You could get burned.

Now either of those ways puts Full batt voltage into the starter input wire.

If it doesn't crank it could be
1 bad starter
2 bad ground for the starter
3 Bad connection on the either of the batt terminals.
4 engine locked


I can turn the engine over by hand. Things like the headlights work when I hook up the battery.

I'm leaning towards bad ground at this point. I'll keep everyone updated and probably have more questions.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

User avatar
ludwig
VIP Member
Posts: 3262
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:11 am
Location: Las Vegas, baby!!

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #5 by ludwig » Thu May 09, 2013 11:45 am

There is usually some large system grounding connection. On the Mustang (which I know best), there is the large NEG cable from the battery bolted to a lug on the engine block. There is also a body/chassis bond at the rear of the block. It is s #12 wire (more or less) screwed to the firewall. In a car as old as your Jeep, these connections can get rusty under the lug. Gradually the metal to metal connection is lost. You might want to look at one or more of these locations and sand down both the lug and the mating surface with emory paper. That will renew the continuity.

Of course, it might be something inside the starter or switch too. There are a lot smarter guys than me for that type of problem.
Image

Livin' the dream. Dad n' daughter.

User avatar
Asa
Registered User
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Tallahassee, Hangin out in some Florida woods somewhere
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #6 by Asa » Thu May 09, 2013 11:55 am

ludwig wrote:There is usually some large system grounding connection. On the Mustang (which I know best), there is the large NEG cable from the battery bolted to a lug on the engine block. There is also a body/chassis bond at the rear of the block. It is s #12 wire (more or less) screwed to the firewall. In a car as old as your Jeep, these connections can get rusty under the lug. Gradually the metal to metal connection is lost. You might want to look at one or more of these locations and sand down both the lug and the mating surface with emory paper. That will renew the continuity.

Of course, it might be something inside the starter or switch too. There are a lot smarter guys than me for that type of problem.

I agree with pretty much everything Ludwig said. Brought Susie down after not having her running for 5 years and had the same issues.

Have you tested the starter at your local parts store?
Other than that, I had the same issue with Susie recently. I had to take everything apart, I installed new ground cables, and I cleaned everything of any rust and nastiness.
Turned over almost immediately.

Of course, then the battery was old and dead and I had to replace that, then the DSII module was crapped out and needed to be replaced... :bang:


One thing I would recommend, if you run new cables is to run one cable directly from the battery to the starter, then run one from the starter to the frame. Helps to ensure full battery voltage gets to the starter.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do

Susie - a work in progress
Clyde - ya mule!

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #7 by DaGr8Tim » Thu May 09, 2013 12:04 pm

I took a quick peek under the hood this morning as I was leaving for work. It looks like the negative battery cable goes to the block and that's it.

Luckily, I have about 50 feet of braided copper 14 gauge wire that I got for a ham radio antenna.
Image

I may try to put some ring connectors on it and run some new grounds to clean metal. I've also got a set of marine battery terminals and a bunch of HD ring connectors left over from redoing the battery terminals and cables on my Cherokee. Maybe that's a project for this weekend.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

User avatar
Asa
Registered User
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Tallahassee, Hangin out in some Florida woods somewhere
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #8 by Asa » Thu May 09, 2013 12:11 pm

I would bet that you've got corrosion between the block and starter then. The aluminum body of those things corrodes almost instantly.

Don't forget to clean that aluminum oxide off, or you'll be stuck where you are.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do



Susie - a work in progress

Clyde - ya mule!

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #9 by DaGr8Tim » Fri May 10, 2013 12:09 pm

In my further efforts, I don't have a key for the Jeep and the lock cylinder is frozen. I'm wondering if somebody could give me some info on what wires to connect to hotwire it.

Being as this information could be used for evil as well as good, please PM me if you know the answer. The link below has a pic of the back of my ignition lock/switch. This is the same model that parts stores still sell and I'll eventually replace the ignition lock, but I want to get it going to work on afew other things first.

I've got terminals for:
BAT (I'm assuming hot)
ACC (I'm assuming when power comes out of this terminal, it powers the accessories)
IGN (I'm assuming power comes out of this terminal when running)
ST (I'm assuming this is the wire that goes to the starter relay/solenoid)

What do I connect to get it to start and run?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6228_o.jpg
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

User avatar
80broncoman
Global Moderator
Posts: 3315
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:49 pm
Location: The Great state of Ohio!!

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #10 by 80broncoman » Fri May 10, 2013 2:27 pm

DaGr8Tim wrote:......
I've got terminals for:
BAT (I'm assuming hot)
ACC (I'm assuming when power comes out of this terminal, it powers the accessories)
IGN (I'm assuming power comes out of this terminal when running)
ST (I'm assuming this is the wire that goes to the starter relay/solenoid)

What do I connect to get it to start and run?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6228_o.jpg


it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.
OAPSE Union Member

Real men don't wear Bowties
When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #11 by DaGr8Tim » Fri May 10, 2013 2:45 pm

80broncoman wrote:it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.


I'm assuming if I apply power to the ST terminal, I should be able to engage the starter. But what do I apply power to, to get it to run.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

User avatar
80broncoman
Global Moderator
Posts: 3315
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:49 pm
Location: The Great state of Ohio!!

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #12 by 80broncoman » Fri May 10, 2013 3:02 pm

DaGr8Tim wrote:
80broncoman wrote:it sounds and looks like you have it figured out on the ignition switch wiring.


I'm assuming if I apply power to the ST terminal, I should be able to engage the starter. But what do I apply power to, to get it to run.


The IGN terminal.
OAPSE Union Member

Real men don't wear Bowties
When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

User avatar
DaGr8Tim
VIP Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:30 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Ford Starter System

Post #13 by DaGr8Tim » Sat May 18, 2013 6:16 pm

Well, I made some progress today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXvVEB3LqMM

Next step is to verify I have spark and correct it if I do not then start digging into the carb. I think it's time to break down and get a new ignition lock/switch.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer

1997 Jeep Cherokee
1975 Jeep CJ5 with a hacked CJ7 tub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests