akimball442
New member
This is going to be my first post here, and may be quite long. I hope anyone with a great deal of experience with this engine could find the time to read it, and assist me with the problem I'm having. I'm going to be as detailed as possible, in order to avoid wasting anyone's time.
Quick backstory: I'm a diesel mechanic, and I work on mostly mid-range engines on buses. That's my 40 hour day job. In the evenings, I work at a small automotive shop, where we do repair work for locals. We will work on just about anything, but as you might expect, most of the vehicles are modern computerized vehicles. We've done some pretty intense jobs, both of us pretty experienced and not afraid of much, and we've had great success.
When it comes to old cars, my personal experience lies with GMs and anything German. I'm an avid Mercedes fan, and I own and old Cadillac as well. So my Ford experience is mostly limited to modern Fords, nothing like this Mustang.
This 1965 Mustang belongs to a regular customer, and she is about the nicest lady you could ever wish to meet. She's one of those great people who you can find yourself talking to for an hour. She purchased this car, an amateur restoration from the look of it, a couple years ago. She loves this car more than anything in the world, and since it was taken out of storage in the spring, it's been nothing but trouble. Last year, it ran perfectly well.
The car started fine where it was stored, and she drove it about a mile before it quit, headed up a slight grade. She had it towed to our shop. The weather was cool, and it wouldn't do much more than stumble and cough a little- the choke was stuck open. I pushed the choke closed, it started fine, and drove into the shop. She also noted it had leaked (something).
Every time we started it, it ran fine. The leak was a freeze plug- it had apparently rusted, as it didn't look like it had blown out in a normal way. Replacement required removal and re-installation of the exhaust manifold. We gave it its beginning of season service- new filters, fresh oil, and took it on a few long-ish test drives with no issues. It ran fine. Also worth noting- we live in hilly terrain, with some pretty steep grades. That becomes important.
Having added about 30 miles to the odometer, we returned the car to its owner, and it wasn't a day before she called and said it had quit on her, and she had been able to restart it and limp it home, running poorly and often quitting. We went and picked it up at her house- it ran fine. Of course. I drove it around a bit, no problems, ran fine.
One nice Saturday, I decided to let it sit outside and run, and it ran for probably 4 hours, perfectly well, nice and cool, until it started running poorly. By the time I noticed and walked over to it, it had stalled. I was unable to restart it, but it would start on ether. Perfect, so it has a fuel delivery problem. The next day, it started, and I drove it in the shop. After installing a tee into the fuel line and connecting a gauge, it was discovered that the fuel pressure was only around 3PSI. The specification is 4.5PSI. No obstructions in the lines, fairly new filters, clean fuel- we replaced the fuel pump. Fuel pressure was just shy of 5PSI with the new pump, drove the car, it ran fine, back to the owner.
A week went by, it quit again, this time she was stranded with the car about 6 miles away. I went down to meet her, and was able to restart it. I was going to have her follow me with my car, but I was unable to go more than about 100 feet at a time, and there was a very long hill between us and the shop. We towed it back. It started up and ran ok once we got it there, but I wasn't able to make it more than about 1/4 mile before it stalled. Well, at least now I'm duplicating this problem. Dragged it back to the shop again.
It has not ran properly since.
Without typing another 30 pages, the following items have been replaced. Total shotgun troubleshooting, as this engine passes EVERY TEST.
Points/Condenser
Plugs/Wires
Ignition coil
Fuel tank and all its components
Fuel lines
Carburetor
Fuel pump - disconnected original pump and have put an electric pump in place.
The car starts and runs perfectly. It has great acceleration, absolutely no trace of hesitation. On flat roads, it's no problem to get it up to 55-60 mph. As soon as you start going up the slightest grade, it will quit like someone pulled the plug, and that's it. It's like the float bowl runs out of fuel and you're done. Then it's usually difficult to restart. Keep in mind the symptoms have never changed, with any of the above components having been changed- even the carburetor. Back at the shop, either limped back, or towed.. we can do some tests, as the problem is getting worse and worse.
Ignition is never the problem, and the timing is correct. When it quits, even if its allowed to stumble and die in front of us at idle, the spark is ticking along to the end. Cranking immediately shows good spark.
I installed a clear fuel line between the filter and the carb to make sure fuel was making it to the carb and not vaporizing. It's fine- a solid line full of clean fuel. Looking into the carb and increasing the RPMs, you can SEE the fuel moving through the carb.
So we have spark, we have fuel. But it's leaning out and dying. When it starts to stumble, choking it a little bit, or misting some ether over the carburetor will cause it to start running nicely again.
Another interesting point is that it seems to be burning through exhaust manifold gaskets, but I'm not sure if that's a cause, symptom, or unrelated problem.
So what I am 100% sure of, is for some reason this thing is going lean... to the point it won't run... but I cannot for the life of me figure out why. It's very frustrating that this seemingly simple engine is beating us up so badly. It can run for a good long while before it starts acting up- unless you put a hill in front of it, and then it starts misbehaving.
I'll be grateful for any suggestions... hoping some of you guys with years of experience on this engine can give me a different perspective- because for the first time in my career, I'm completely out of ideas.
Thanks,
Aaron
Quick backstory: I'm a diesel mechanic, and I work on mostly mid-range engines on buses. That's my 40 hour day job. In the evenings, I work at a small automotive shop, where we do repair work for locals. We will work on just about anything, but as you might expect, most of the vehicles are modern computerized vehicles. We've done some pretty intense jobs, both of us pretty experienced and not afraid of much, and we've had great success.
When it comes to old cars, my personal experience lies with GMs and anything German. I'm an avid Mercedes fan, and I own and old Cadillac as well. So my Ford experience is mostly limited to modern Fords, nothing like this Mustang.
This 1965 Mustang belongs to a regular customer, and she is about the nicest lady you could ever wish to meet. She's one of those great people who you can find yourself talking to for an hour. She purchased this car, an amateur restoration from the look of it, a couple years ago. She loves this car more than anything in the world, and since it was taken out of storage in the spring, it's been nothing but trouble. Last year, it ran perfectly well.
The car started fine where it was stored, and she drove it about a mile before it quit, headed up a slight grade. She had it towed to our shop. The weather was cool, and it wouldn't do much more than stumble and cough a little- the choke was stuck open. I pushed the choke closed, it started fine, and drove into the shop. She also noted it had leaked (something).
Every time we started it, it ran fine. The leak was a freeze plug- it had apparently rusted, as it didn't look like it had blown out in a normal way. Replacement required removal and re-installation of the exhaust manifold. We gave it its beginning of season service- new filters, fresh oil, and took it on a few long-ish test drives with no issues. It ran fine. Also worth noting- we live in hilly terrain, with some pretty steep grades. That becomes important.
Having added about 30 miles to the odometer, we returned the car to its owner, and it wasn't a day before she called and said it had quit on her, and she had been able to restart it and limp it home, running poorly and often quitting. We went and picked it up at her house- it ran fine. Of course. I drove it around a bit, no problems, ran fine.
One nice Saturday, I decided to let it sit outside and run, and it ran for probably 4 hours, perfectly well, nice and cool, until it started running poorly. By the time I noticed and walked over to it, it had stalled. I was unable to restart it, but it would start on ether. Perfect, so it has a fuel delivery problem. The next day, it started, and I drove it in the shop. After installing a tee into the fuel line and connecting a gauge, it was discovered that the fuel pressure was only around 3PSI. The specification is 4.5PSI. No obstructions in the lines, fairly new filters, clean fuel- we replaced the fuel pump. Fuel pressure was just shy of 5PSI with the new pump, drove the car, it ran fine, back to the owner.
A week went by, it quit again, this time she was stranded with the car about 6 miles away. I went down to meet her, and was able to restart it. I was going to have her follow me with my car, but I was unable to go more than about 100 feet at a time, and there was a very long hill between us and the shop. We towed it back. It started up and ran ok once we got it there, but I wasn't able to make it more than about 1/4 mile before it stalled. Well, at least now I'm duplicating this problem. Dragged it back to the shop again.
It has not ran properly since.
Without typing another 30 pages, the following items have been replaced. Total shotgun troubleshooting, as this engine passes EVERY TEST.
Points/Condenser
Plugs/Wires
Ignition coil
Fuel tank and all its components
Fuel lines
Carburetor
Fuel pump - disconnected original pump and have put an electric pump in place.
The car starts and runs perfectly. It has great acceleration, absolutely no trace of hesitation. On flat roads, it's no problem to get it up to 55-60 mph. As soon as you start going up the slightest grade, it will quit like someone pulled the plug, and that's it. It's like the float bowl runs out of fuel and you're done. Then it's usually difficult to restart. Keep in mind the symptoms have never changed, with any of the above components having been changed- even the carburetor. Back at the shop, either limped back, or towed.. we can do some tests, as the problem is getting worse and worse.
Ignition is never the problem, and the timing is correct. When it quits, even if its allowed to stumble and die in front of us at idle, the spark is ticking along to the end. Cranking immediately shows good spark.
I installed a clear fuel line between the filter and the carb to make sure fuel was making it to the carb and not vaporizing. It's fine- a solid line full of clean fuel. Looking into the carb and increasing the RPMs, you can SEE the fuel moving through the carb.
So we have spark, we have fuel. But it's leaning out and dying. When it starts to stumble, choking it a little bit, or misting some ether over the carburetor will cause it to start running nicely again.
Another interesting point is that it seems to be burning through exhaust manifold gaskets, but I'm not sure if that's a cause, symptom, or unrelated problem.
So what I am 100% sure of, is for some reason this thing is going lean... to the point it won't run... but I cannot for the life of me figure out why. It's very frustrating that this seemingly simple engine is beating us up so badly. It can run for a good long while before it starts acting up- unless you put a hill in front of it, and then it starts misbehaving.
I'll be grateful for any suggestions... hoping some of you guys with years of experience on this engine can give me a different perspective- because for the first time in my career, I'm completely out of ideas.
Thanks,
Aaron