All Small Six Clutch and flywheel

This relates to all small sixes

Wyowanderer

Well-known member
I'm gathering parts for the engine swap, and while looking around I noticed that LUK doesn't show a listing for an 8" or 8.5" clutch, just a 10" clutch for '65-74.
Will this fit and work with the starter, or should I be looking elsewhere?

6 Cylinders L6, 3.9L 1965-74 10” Clutch 07-014 10 1 10

I'm also interested in a new flywheel, if they can be had, hence the question about working with the stock starter.
 
Last edited:
For a stock 1963 Falcon Econoline there was only one choice for the Flywheel they came with a Stepped / also often referred to as a 'Dog Dish" these are a 132 tooth and had an 8 1/2 inch Clutch Assembly, used on all the early engines the 1960 to 1965 144, 170 and 200 Small Six's as well as the 1966 ford Mustangs with a 200 Six. That is if your also going to use all those same stock parts that you have on the back of your 144 or 170. I. E. the Small Bolt Pattern Block Plate, Small Bell Housing, the Stepped Flywheel with 8 1/2 Inch Clutch Assembly, and the stock Transmission, do you still have any of those parts now? If you need to find all those early parts would you want to go with the newer parts instead?

There were no 10 Inch Clutch's used stock on any of the 170, or 200 sixes so that listing is the wrong one and is probably for a SBF V8 or else it was miss typed. With the later 170 & 200 Six car engine block's (like 1966 & up) it also opens up the use of their larger Bell Housing's, its matching Block Plate, the larger Flat type Flywheel, with its bigger and much easier to find 9 Inch Clutch assembly these were used on some of the 1966 200's as well as all of the later model 1967 up 200 engine block's that all will have the Duel Bolt Pattern. There was a 9 3/8 Inch Clutch assembly used in some heavey duty apts like the 1966 to 74 Bronco 170 Six's and some Millitary Spec Econolines and others its kind of rare now days to find them. So you also have that option to up grade to those parts and they also came with the better 3.03 all Synchro 3 Speed Transmission that first came out in the1963 Econoline's.

This info is only for those 1960 to 1965 Early Single Bolt Pattern Short Block's using the 8 1/2 Inch Clutch Assembly for the Stepped / or Dog Dish Flywheels.

It is important for proper operation and the clutches holding ability with the 8 1/2 inch Dog Dish type flywheel that it measures a depth of exactly 1 inch from the pressure plate mounting ring down to the flywheels clutch disk face surface area. Modern Driveline also makes brand new Steel Billet 8 1/2 inch 132 tooth Dog Dish flywheels.

When I last researched these beside the stock Re- Built 8 1/2 Inch Clutch's there were suppose to be at least 4 companies that recently started to make brand new stock spec 8 1/2 inch clutch kits used for the 1960 to 1966 years of Ford 144 & 170, & 1963 1/2 to 1965 and they were also still used on the 1966 Mustang 200's engines with the 2.77 Transmissions and likely others like Falcons and Comets. These were the latest currently confirmed listings at that time, the Zoom MU-721163-1, the RhinoPac # 15132-05292860 & # 15132-07455300, Perfection Clutches @ 1 800-258-8312 option 4 was another but I wasn't able to find a part number listing so you would need to call. Also Exedy Clutches are suppose to have a clutch kit I couldn't find a part number or catalog listing so research or call them too. In any case these are all stock application clutch kits. The kit that Modern Driveline sells is geared towards a T5 swap so is a conversion clutch, it probably uses one of the above stock type pressure plates, with a custom disk made up with a larger diameter center hub or is a disk from a different application, the stock Ford 8 1/2 inch disk is 10 Spline X 15/16 Diameter).

There are also two Diaphragm type pressure plates that a number of people have used with great results "Rick Wrench" was the first one known to try this experimental combo on his Falcon Wagon logging 100,000 trouble free miles before he needed to replace it. These would require some machining work to the upper flywheel mounting ring to install them and some clearance need for the wider pressure plate springs. To use these you would need to use a disk like you are using now for fitting into the stock Ford transmissions or to use a conversion T5 disk if you are doing that kind of swap.

First one he used was the 1968 to 1994 Alfa Romeo is a 215 MM pressure plate from a 1750 or 2000 GTV, a 1750 or 2000 Spider, the Flywheel depth is machined to a depth of .875, this is the one lasted a 100,000 miles.

Second one he used when it was time to replace that first one was from a 1984 to 1986 Mercedes 190 E 215 MM Flywheel. The Flywheel depth for it is .885, I think he's still running this unit his last last report it was at over 30,000 trouble free miles and that was many years back.

Hope there is some info there that is useful to you, best of luck on your swap. :nod:
 
Last edited:
Follow up question -
Can I use an easier to find flywheel/clutch by installing a different bellhousing/starter/clutch fork assembly?
I'm going to retain the 3.03 toploader simply because I'm unwilling to fabrcate a new trans mount. I'd like to make this as simple as I can...
 
Hi, the 3.9 liter engine in your first post is probably the bigger 240 6 cylinder truck engine. The big six parts won't fit at all.
The 3.03 3 speed wasn't available until 1966. Count the bolts holding on the cover on the tranny. 4 bolt = 2.73. 9 bolt = 3.03. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook. They have all this information. The early engines only used the small bell housing. Later engines used the older small bell housing for the C4s, and the bigger bell housing for the 9"clutch. Good luck
 
Follow up question -
Can I use an easier to find flywheel/clutch by installing a different bellhousing/starter/clutch fork assembly?
I'm going to retain the 3.03 toploader simply because I'm unwilling to fabrcate a new trans mount. I'd like to make this as simple as I can...
Yes sure that 3.03 Top Loader Trans is the best 3 speed there is that fits in these Cars, Van's and Pickups, this is a very easy bolt together swap as the later Bell housings were also made to use the 3.03 Trans too. By the way besides the 3.03 Its Big Brother the Top Loader 4 Speeds will also bolt up to the same Bell Housings, and so will the T5 Mustang 5.0 Trans with a simple adapter plate.

1966 was the first year of the 3.03 Car type bell housings for use with the larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel and the bigger 9 inch Clutch combo it was used in some of the Ford model's. It seems to sometimes be harder to find though, C6OA-6394-C is its Design Casting number. This 1966 Bell housing is a transition year part so it is only used with the same Narrow small trans Bolt Pattern as the early bells (and is also also the same as used on the 2.77 Trans and most other early Fords), it uses a two bolt starter.

1967 C7ZA-6394-A is the first year for a 3.03 bell with the big wider trans Bolt Pattern they were drilled for both the large and small trans bolt pattern so you can use either 3.03 Trans. All the Bells from this year through to at least 1978 are basically the same and will all use the 136 Tooth flat flywheel and 9 inch clutch combo. There are two throw-out bearing arms for them and the bell uses the two bolt starter.

There is also an adapter plate made to fit the T5 Trans to these early bells to, see Modern Driveline and others for parts and info on these adapters there are several that are made.
 
Hi, I have the bigger bell housing and 9' clutch from the factory on the 170 (now 200) in my 66 Bronco. November 65 build. I don't know when the Econoline vans went with the bigger parts. Good luck
 
Hi, the 3.9 liter engine in your first post is probably the bigger 240 6 cylinder truck engine. The big six parts won't fit at all.
The 3.03 3 speed wasn't available until 1966. Count the bolts holding on the cover on the tranny. 4 bolt = 2.73. 9 bolt = 3.03. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook. They have all this information. The early engines only used the small bell housing. Later engines used the older small bell housing for the C4s, and the bigger bell housing for the 9"clutch. Good luck
I bought the book (used on Craigslist) and I'm reading through it currently.
I'll look at the bolts, I'm informed (maybe incorrectly) that I have a 3.03/HEF-K according to the door tag which says it's an A - this info I gleaned at http://econoline.org/transmission.php . I'll look closely tomorrow and verify what's in it. Whatever it is, I just want to install a new clutch and flywheel assembly on the new engine before I install it in the van, not change the entire thing for a bigger clutch.

Thanks for pointing out the 3.9 engine - you'd think I'd caught that. Duh.:rolleyes:
 
Below are a few pictures of some of the more common Ford 3.03 Small Six Bell Housing's that are used with the Larger 136 Tooth Flywheels and 9 Inch Clutches they will all have a 2 Bolt Starter Mounting. Also note that if you have a good working 3 Bolt Starter it can be changed over to a 2 Bolt unit just by changing out the tail piece.

First one is the 1966 Aluminum Bell C6OA-6394-C with the Narrow 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern this should be the best match for your 1963 Econoline 3.03 Transmission but the other two Bell could probably be re-drilled for the Narrow Bolt Pattern. I believe I have also seen a few of the 1967 Ford 3.03 Transmissions that had both of the Trans Bolt Patterns too.

Second one is the 1966 Cast Iron Bell C6TA-7500- with the Wider 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern

Third one is the 1967 Aluminum Bell C7ZA-6394-A with the Wider 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern

Last two Pictures should be what your 1963 Econoline 3.03 Bell Housing it's likely a C3UA-6394-A looks like and uses the 8 1/2 Inch Clutch it has the 3 Bolt Starter.

By the way be sure to hang on to all those extra parts the like the Block Plate, Bell Housing, Flywheel and all the Clutch Parts some other site member can probably use them for their project build up if you want to sell them.
 

Attachments

  • Ford Small Six Bell Housing C6OA-6394-C Cast Alum.jpg
    Ford Small Six Bell Housing C6OA-6394-C Cast Alum.jpg
    8.7 KB · Views: 7
  • Ford Small Six Bell Housing C6TA-7500- Cast Iron.jpg
    Ford Small Six Bell Housing C6TA-7500- Cast Iron.jpg
    9 KB · Views: 6
  • Ford Small Six Bell Housing C7ZA-6394-A Cast Alum.jpg
    Ford Small Six Bell Housing C7ZA-6394-A Cast Alum.jpg
    8.7 KB · Views: 7
  • 1963 to 1965 Econoline 144 & 170 Ford Small Six 3.03 Bell Housing used withe the 8.5 Inch Clut...jpg
    1963 to 1965 Econoline 144 & 170 Ford Small Six 3.03 Bell Housing used withe the 8.5 Inch Clut...jpg
    607.4 KB · Views: 10
  • 1963 to 1965 Econoline 144 & 170 Ford Small Six 3.03 Bell Housing used withe the 8.5 Inch Clut...jpg
    1963 to 1965 Econoline 144 & 170 Ford Small Six 3.03 Bell Housing used withe the 8.5 Inch Clut...jpg
    416.4 KB · Views: 10
Below are a few pictures of some of the more common 3.03 Small Six Bell Housing's that are used with the Larger 136 Tooth Flywheels and 9 Inch Clutches they will have a 2 Bolt Starter. Also note that if you have a good working 3 Bolt Starter it can be changed over to a 2 Bolt unit just by changing out the the tail piece.

First one is the 1966 Aluminum Bell C6OA-6394-C with the narrow 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern this should be the best match for your 1963 Econoline 3.03 Trans but the other two Bell could probably be re-drilled for the narrow Bolt Pattern. I believe I have also seen a few of the 1967 Bell Housings that had both of the Trans Bolt Patterns too.

Second one is the 1966 Cast Iron Bell C6TA-7500- with the wider 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern

Third one is the 1967 Aluminum Bell C7ZA-6394-A with the wider 3.03 Top Loader Trans Bolt Pattern

Last two Pictures should be what your 1963 Econoline 3.03 Bell Housing looks like and that uses the 8 1/2 Inch Clutch and has the 3 Bolt Starter.

By the way be sure to hang on to all those extra parts the like the Block Plate, Bell Housing, Flywheel and all the Clutch Parts some other site member can probably use them for their project build up.
Great pics and info.
 
There is an old Econoline with manual trans at my local u-pull it. If you need any parts pm me
Some of the Econoline bells are hard to find and good for swaps, did you get the part number? Is it for the 170-250? What state are you in?
 
Some of the Econoline bells are hard to find and good for swaps, did you get the part number? Is it for the 170-250? What state are you in?
I'll check in the next few days. I didn't get any info from the van yet. Just saw it and it is from before my time. I'm in PA near Philadelphia. Zip 19067
 
I'll check in the next few days. I didn't get any info from the van yet. Just saw it and it is from before my time. I'm in PA near Philadelphia. Zip 19067
I'm not sure what I need yet, but I'll let you know if I need stuff. Right now I'm in a state of confusion. ;)
 
So what are you confused about, and just what are you wanting to do with your Econoline so that we can better help you?
 
For a stock 1963 Falcon Econoline there was only one choice for the Flywheel they came with a Stepped / also often referred to as a 'Dog Dish" these are a 132 tooth and had an 8 1/2 inch Clutch Assembly, used on all the early engines the 1960 to 1965 144, 170 and 200 Small Six's. That is if your also going to use all those stock parts you have on the back of your 144 or 170. I. E. the Small Bolt Pattern block Plate, Bell Housing, Stepped Flywheel, and the stock Transmission, do you have any of those parts now?
I have everything that comes with the van - clutch, bellhousing, transmission
If you need to find all those early parts would you want to go with the newer parts instead?
I'll likely stay with the parts I have. I'm pretty interested in installing a new clutch/pressure plate/ flywheel/release bearing/pilot bearing.
There were no 10 Inch Clutch's used stock on any of the 170, or 200 sixes so that listing is the wrong one and is probably for a SBF V8 or else it was miss typed.
Looking back, I think you're right so I'll stop chasing that rabbit.
With the later 170 & 200 Six car engine block's (like 1966 & up) it also opens up the use of their larger Bell Housing's, its matching Block Plate, the larger Flat type Flywheel, with its bigger and much easier to find 9 Inch Clutch assembly these were used on some of the 1966 200's as well as all of the later model 1967 up 200 engine block's that all will have the Duel Bolt Pattern. So you also have that option to up grade to those parts and they also came with the better 3.03 all Synchro 3 Speed Transmission that first came out in the1963 Econoline's.

This info is only for the 1960 to 1965 Early Single Bolt Pattern Short Block's using the 8 1/2 Inch Clutch Assembly for the Stepped / or Dog Dish Flywheels

It is important for proper operation and the clutches holding ability with the 8 1/2 inch Dog Dish type flywheel that it measures a depth of 1 exactly 1 inch from the pressure plate mounting ring down to the flywheels clutch disk face surface area. Modern
Driveline also makes brand new Steel Billet 8 1/2 inch 132 tooth Dog Dish flywheels.

When I last researched these beside the stock Re- Built 8 1/2 Inch Clutch's there were suppose to be at least 4 companies that were recently making brand new stock spec 8 1/2 inch clutch kits used for the 1960 to 1966 years of Ford 144 & 170, & 1963 1/2 to 1965 and was also used on the 1966 Mustang 200's engines. These were the latest currently confirmed listings at that time, the Zoom MU-721163-1, the RhinoPac # 15132-05292860 & # 15132-07455300, Perfection Clutches @ 1 800-258-8312 option 4 was another but I wasn't able to find a part number listing so you would need to call. Also Exedy Clutches are suppose to have a clutch kit I couldn't find a part number or catalog listing so research or call them too. In any case these are all stock application clutch kits. The kit that Modern Driveline sells is geared towards a T5 swap so is a conversion clutch, it probably uses one of the above stock type pressure plates, with a custom disk made up with a larger diameter center hub or is a disk from a different application, the stock Ford 8 1/2 inch disk is 10 Spline X 15/16 Diameter).
I'm hoping the Modern Driveline flywheel and clutch assembly will work -
Flywheel - https://www.moderndriveline.com/sho...ci-132-tooth-8-5-clutch-pattern-zero-balance/
Clutch - one of these - https://www.moderndriveline.com/product-category/clutches/ford-clutch-kits/8-5-ford-clutch/
There are also two Diaphragm type pressure plates that a number of people have used with great results "Rick Wrench" was the first one known to try this experimental combo on his Falcon Wagon logging 100,000 trouble free miles before he needed to replace it. These would require some machining work to the upper flywheel mounting ring to install them and some clearance need for the wider pressure plate springs. To use these you would need to use a disk like you are using now for fitting into the stock Ford transmissions or to use a conversion T5 disk if you are doing that kind of swap.

First one he used was the 1968 to 1994 Alfa Romeo is a 215 MM pressure plate from a 1750 or 2000 GTV, a 1750 or 2000 Spider, the Flywheel depth is machined to a depth of .875, this is the one lasted a 100,000 miles.

Second one he used when it was time to replace that first one was from a 1984 to 1986 Mercedes 190 E 215 MM Flywheel. The Flywheel depth for it is .885, I think he's still running this unit his last last report it was at over 30,000 trouble free miles and that was many years back.

Hope there is some info there that is useful to you, best of luck on your swap. :nod:
 
Hi, the 3.9 liter engine in your first post is probably the bigger 240 6 cylinder truck engine. The big six parts won't fit at all.
The 3.03 3 speed wasn't available until 1966. Count the bolts holding on the cover on the tranny. 4 bolt = 2.73. 9 bolt = 3.03. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook. They have all this information. The early engines only used the small bell housing. Later engines used the older small bell housing for the C4s, and the bigger bell housing for the 9"clutch. Good luck
I wiggled under the van this morning and it's got 9 bolts, like the econoline site and my manual indicates. Must be a 3.03.
 
So what are you confused about, and just what are you wanting to do with your Econoline so that we can better help you?
Mostly about where to go from here. I'm very much inclined towards going with the stock stuff. THis isn't going to be a hotrod build, just a new-ish engine in an old van. I'd like a little more power, but only to make the van more practical.
If the MDL flywheel and clutch assemblies will fit without trouble, I'll buy them.
If I have to change everything over to a 9" cluctch, I'll do that but I'll grumble a little.
 
Hi Wyowanderer, wow I like it! That Econoline is in very nice condition and it's still got a really straight Body from what I can see. Yes looks like all the Transmission parts are still there too and considering its over all condition I wouldn't even think that you wouldn't need to replace the Flywheel unless you really wanted to. The Flywheels can be Re surfaced at many Auto Parts or Machine Shops, the thing to remember on these stepped Flywheels is that the depth of the step should be 1 Inch so sometimes after a few re-surfaces the outer Lip of the Flywheel that the Pressure Plate Bolt down on needs to also be cut some to bring it back in spec. The Modern Driveline Billet Flywheel will work if you want to go with it. Two of their Clutch Kits will work with your 3.03 Trans the MD-OO8.5-T5 or MD-KO8.5-T5 both have the 10 Spline by 1 1/16 Inch dia. you would need.

Here is a link to a New stock type Ford Falcon car 8 1/2 Inch Clutch Assembly I know this pressure plate is right but the Clutch disk is not going to be right it has a 10 Spline 15/16 Inch Size, otherwise its everything needed but the Pilot Bushing and right Disk. The correct size disk splines for your 3.03 is 10 Splines and 1 1/16 Inch Diameter, you should be able to get a rebuilt 63 Econoline clutch disk at your local Auto Parts or like at NAPA online fairly reasonable. You might try calling about it and see if they can substitute the right clutch larger spline disk for the 63 Econoline. One Finale note I used to be able to get my clutches rebuilt by a local rebuilder who did them quickly sometimes even while I waited, so there are places that can do these older clutches. I think Max's Auto Parts also has that service as do probably many of the other Antique Ford Parts Houses and regular Auto Parts Stores. https://www.carid.com/1963-ford-fal...ium-clutch-kit-4035356308.html#specifications
 
Back
Top