Fuel Pump Options Mechanical

[Frankenstang]

I have used to use the Airtex (they are rebuilds of factory type pumps) fuel pumps on many cars and seldom had a problem with them. With a NOS part (they would have used old style diaphragms and parts) I wonder if what you’re seeing is not caused by the fuel we now have? Alcohol can deteriorate the rubber parts quickly some areas have more added into the fuel than others.

That interesting, cause the mechanical airtex pumps I've seen are new castings. The base looks a little like a carter, but really like no other stock pump I've seen. I've heard more than a couple horror stories about airtex, both mechanical and electric. They seem to be the low cost (import) leader.

You're right though, might be something to watch on these 'NOS' parts...I should qualify that term, because both these are older stock, but are acutally rebuilds of factory original pumps (the carter is a BW rebuild, and the '66, pictured above is an old ACDelco rebuild...but I imagine they could very well pre-date ethanol).

So anyone own/use a combo gauge like this one :
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-wa ... -3620.html
I'm actually looking at vintage snap on models, but don't want to pick one up if it does neither job very well...could use another vacuum gauge cause mine's on 'permanent' loan to my brother and his dogged '66 cheby truck :roll:
Will probably use a autozoo fuel pressure loaner this weekend to at least make sure the carter is not way over board and get the regulator ordered.

Found a post here about a redline regulator so I'll check that out...many I'm finding range from 5.5-9psi IIRC and I'd like to have the ability to adjust a little lower if necessary.
Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

Have not used Airtex for years since I started using NAPA for my supply so don't know about the current ones. Back than they were rebuilt in the US and were common to the locale parts houses. Maybe someone bought out the brand name and if they are imports I think would pass am getting tired of the extra work to keep replacing poor quality cheappo auto parts lines. I have an old gauge that is like that type (different brand) it still works well.

 

[Frankenstang]

Thanks bubba I hear ya, I'm opting for more 'vintage' tools and even some parts these days to try and find quality. I picked up a 1/2in socket set a couple months back at an estate sale...looks like craftsman stuff from the 60's at most. I never knew they made stuff so nice...and I thought the quality had gone down just in the last 10-15 years.

Yeah airtex must have sold out, or started casting their own. I think there was one post up here or another forum where the guy's airtex leaked into the crankcase and washed some bearings before he figured it out If I bolt it up for a test it will be a quick one.

The most affordable regulator out there that would seem to work is a Spectre : ...I tend to think of them as more import/tuner stuff but really have no experience with that brand. Any thoughts?
The Redline and Holley are a little pricey...and it seems wierd they have some that run from like 1-3 or 4psi then 4.5-9
Something like that ....I'd assume one would cover that whole 'low' range, or basically one for carbs and another one 30,40 etc for fuel injection. What gives? Still not sure what's the best route here.

 

[bubba22349]

Have not used a Spectre though have seen some like you said on the imports. Have used Holley one's on my drag race cars with electric pumps work well these were the higer pressure type you are talking about for big carb or carbs (high vol.) and pushing from tank forward. Redline was a good brand for the Weber carb's and parts. There is some feeling on quality of Webers carbs by country they are made in (they have lic. out use the name) have not heard any thing bad about Redline. I used a few reg. years ago that had a chrome die cast body with glass top inside was a brass float they worked great don't remember the name but if I seen one i would know if it's the same.

 

[wsa111]

Even Holley's regulator is made in china. It's the best of the worse.
If you want the best regulator call Alex @ http://www.moneymakerracing.net/home
They have the best parts for your application. Bill

 

[Frankenstang]

Thanks again Bill I'm not opposed to holley especially given price...can't find the redline/weber for less than $60 plus shipping...maybe its worth the extra
The feedback on the dial type spectre are not favorable at all...at least some were weber owners who were left stranded by it.

The holley seems reasonably priced, but still leaves me a little confused cause the two low pressure models I see on summit split right over the pressure target FSD mentioned. One goes from 1-4psi and the other from 4.5-9psi
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part ... egulators/
I'd assume it might be better to go with the lower range one run at max pressure than to run the higher range at minimum, but that's the part I'm not sure about (again FSM min states 4psi...max 6) :

Should finally get some current readings on at least the current carter & the "66" acdelco tomorrow.

 

[bubba22349]

Down towards the middle of page is a round chrome Fuel pressure Reg. Looks to be like the old Purolator adjustable fuel pressure regulator CPS # 8511 that I have used. Above it is a Holley style (knock off?) these are used with the lower pressure Holley electric pumps (Red? Was about 5 to 6 psi) used for a performance street car

Think you will find that 2.5 psi is going to be real close to about right for a stock Ford carb

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/bug ... yfuel2.htm

 

[wcol]

Hey wsa111 great to see you back... Bill, is an excellent mechanic and a great guy to get advice from for our inline six cylinders. Wsa111 knows his stuff. Helped me out tremondously with my engine problems and tuning to max performance... That is why I like this forum for guys like Bill (wsa111) and his knowledge. With guys like Bill and some others with knowledge and Hi performance parts That Mike from Classic inlines supplies for us what a great combo team. Glad to see you back on the forum... You guys are well taken care of with these guys here onboard...

wcol

 

[wsa111]

If you purchase a carter i have had 4 of them where the arm contact area with the camshaft eccentric only contacts on the edge.
What i'm saying the contact surface is not paralell with the pump mounting bolts.
The contact lever is twisted causing just the edge of the arm to make a partial footprint on the camshaft eccentric.
Check all pumps for this problem. Carter is the best pump, but if the arm is twisted that is a no no. Bill

This missalignment can be corrected, by chucking the last inch of the arm is a vise.
You need to use a torch or a propane torch using map gas.
Block heat to the pump housing by placing a heat blocker close to the mounting area of the pump.
Heat the arm close to a cherry red between the contact surface of the arm & the pump body.
Grasp the pump body to slightly twist the arm so the contact surface is paralell to the mount bolt holes on the pump flange.
NEXT submerge the pump arm area into water to quench, to reharden the arm.
Check the alignment of the contact area of the arm so it is paralell to the flange mounting holes.
Carter is the best pump, but their last production run should be recalled. Bill

 

[Frankenstang]

You need to use a torch or a propane torch using map gas.

I assume straight acetylene would work on something like that too...used in moderation of course : It's what I've got the easiest access too from sweating copper...and about the only gas I'ved used with some frequency.

bubba, thanks for the tip on the purolator and the link to the other...I wonder if the purolator were better made than the spectre? Looks like the dial type just has a large spring and diaphragm for reguating pressure...where you dial in stepped tension settings. Don't know what's so different about the Holleys and others of that style that makes them that much more expensive. Did see some 'quick fuel' brand, holley look-a-likes on ebay...alot closer to the $20-30 price range I'd like to keep it in...but of course getting a regulator that works correctly and keeps doing so is priority.

 

[bubba22349]

I wonder if the purolator were better made than the spectre?

I would say that the Purolator is better made as "in the USA". You might still be able to find a new one at a parts house that been around a long time. Than you may also find a used one too a little cleaning and good to go

 

[chad]

submerge the pump arm area into water to quench, to reharden the arm

isn't an oil quench one which will harden? don't go to white hot please. quench is moving (to create a small pocket around it - as moved) & why not pull the pin/fulcrum, remove the arm so as NOT to get the rest of the pump over heated?

thanks bubs

 

[wsa111]

submerge the pump arm area into water to quench, to reharden the arm

isn't an oil quench one which will harden? don't go to white hot please. quench is moving (to create a small pocket around it - as moved) & why not pull the pin/fulcrum, remove the arm so as NOT to get the rest of the pump over heated?

thanks bubs

Being a fuel pump arm i would hope the carbon in the steel would be a low %. Thats why i quenched it into water because the arm was not quite red hot.
If it was a high carbon % & heated to a bright cherry red or white i would have used oil as the quenching agent. I believe i made the correct decission. Bill

 

[chad]

not quite red hot (color as heated)
if high carbon (steel)% & heated to a bright cherry red or white i would have used oil as the quenching agent
thqnks for the clarity...
(White would be the forge welding temp only, no? - too high 4 this process)

is this one where the fulcrum/securing pin can be remaved to isolate the heat from the rest of the pump body?