170 dist on a 200?

[Shakey Bender]

Hello everyone. Its been kind of a rocky road so far. I purchased a 61 Falcon 2dr. in September. It was stored not running for 20 some years. So I really didn't have much to lose buy r/r the ignition and manually giving it some oil and attempting to start. Well that didn't work and I can't say I was to surprised. I pulled the valve cover and holy Santa Claus. It looked like the push rods got bent into candy canes. I can't say whether it was my fault or if they had already got bent. So I took the easy way out and found a 200 to swap for the derlict 170. I was leaning that way anyways. My question to you is are most of the externals i.e. distributor water pump generator fuel pump interchangeable on a 170-200? I plan on using whatevers in the best condition for the end product. At least till its running, and updating down the road. Before any one says it. I have the new flex plate and new timing chain kit to install along with a full gasket kit. I'm hooking it up to my 2speed auto. And was told with the new flex plate it should be a snap.

 

[64.5 TX Stang]

Maybe, there may be issues with the oil pump driveshaft. Other than that it should physicaly fit, but check whether or not you have a load-o-matic dizzy or a carb with the SCV. See the sticky at the top of the forum for more info.

 

[rbohm]

8) tghe early 170 has a smaller dist shaft, and a smaller oil pump shaft. thus while the 170 dist will fit the block, you will have to change the oil pump and driveshaft. best to grab a duraspark dist, install it in the 200, and wire it to a chrysler ignition box. i did that with my 66 falcon and the results are excellent.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Shakey Bender:

And welcome to the Forum. You will find lots of great info to help you along here.

If the 170 is an original 1961 engine, very little of it will you want to use on your "new" 200. Depending on the year of the 200 engine, you will want a specific carb/distributor combo.

As has already been said, from the end of the '64 model year to sometime in the '65 model year, the family of engines went from solid lifters to Hydraulic lifters. This change included changes to the oil pump and distributor drive shaft, as well as the size of the mounting hole in the block.

If you will report back the casting number on the side of the block, under the exhaust manifold, we can tell you more about your 200.

Ironically, the one thing that you will want to save is the adjustible rocker arm assembly. It will need to be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned, but it will be useful in the 200 engine. YOu need new pushrods.

Adios, David

 

[xctasy]

(Resist the temptation to pull the 12 pushrods out, lay them out over your doorstep, and hammer untill straight. It doesn't work).

Welcome aboard! Fords I6 is a lot of fun!

 

[Shakey Bender]

Thanks for the replys. Heres the block # C5DE 6015G. The carb is a autolite but I was hoping to use the holley because it has manual choke. The dist is there on the 200 but I was hoping to be able to use the points condenser cap and rotor as I got them new for the other engine. Before I start modifying the motor I want to get a base line running motor. So for now I'll keep it simple stupid (ME KISS). If someone could tell me the year of the 200 I would be greatfull.
Thanks, Clint

 

[64.5 TX Stang]

The 200 block is a 65 you can tell by the following:

C=Decade of hte 60's

5=year


I think the interals, i.e. cap, rotor, points will all transfer over to the 200 dizzy.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back S-Bender:

I'd suggest that you stick with the '65 Autolite 1100 carb for 200. Your '61 Holley model 1904 on a 170 engine is rated at 150 cfm, whereas the '65 Autolite 1100 is rated at 185 cfm. If you still want a manual choke you can buy a universal choke kit and install it. Know that the Holley 1904 glass bowled carbs are very sought after, so don't lose it.

While the '61 170 distributor will not go into the '65 200 block the points, condensor, cap and rotor may work on the '65 distributor. I've never done it, but it is worth a try. Know that both distributors are a vacuum advance only system, known as "Load-O-Matic". They require a vacuum valve in the carb, called a Spark Control Valve, to send the correct modified vacuum signal to the distributor for advance. There are "Stickies" at the top of this forum about the workings of both the SCV and the Load-O-Matic distributor.

The '65 block offers serveral advantages over the '61 170. Some of the highlights are; It will have hydraulic valve lifters, 7 mains crank, larger bore and stroke, higher compression (8.7 vs 9.2), larger intake and exhaust valves, a better exhaust manifold. All of which adds up to a smoother, more powerful engine.

You are wise to follow a KISS policy. Things to watch out for;
*Leaks- of any kind. Especially gas and vacuum leaks.
*Start with new filters, oil and gas. Use a light weight, high detergent oil and be sure to prime the oil system before start-up. You might want to run a commercial flush product through the first start-up. Be sure to use new gas, and consider a gas line system cleaner there too.
*Slipped timing ring on the damper. Check with the TDC on the number 1 cylinder to verify that the timing mark is accurate.
*In addition to the electrical tune up, you'd be wise to do a thorough cleaning and inspection of the carb. If you don't see gas squriting into the carb throat when you work the accelerator linkage, it is time for a rebuild kit and internal cleaning.
*Your '61 exhaust head pipe will not fit the '65 manifold. The difference is that the '61 uses a flat gasket and has a 1.75" outlet. The '65 will have a donut gasket connections and a 2" outlet.

FOR SAFETY- Once you have the engine running, don't overlook the safety issues of brakes, tires, steering and suspension. Too often I see folks so pleased to get the engine running, they immediately hit the highway, to "clean her out". Be safe! Check first!

IF you don't have a Shop Manual for your '65 engine, that should be your first major purchase. They are about $50.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David

 

[rommaster2]

maybe someone can answer my question that got brought up while reading this post. I have an autolite 1100 with a manual choke, so i was wondering what year it would be since its on my 65 200. Every other autolite i've seen has the little black automatic choke one. I'm wondering cause i want to know how many cfms it is.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy:

Rommaster- The 1100s got the automatic choke beginning in the 1965 model year. Only Comets and Meteor's had auto chokes prior to that time. If your 1100 is OEM with a manual choke it is likely off of a 1963- '64 Falcon or Fairlane 144, 170, or the earliest 200s, which 1st appeared in the '64 Fairlanes.

All three sizes look identical externally. The only sure way to determine the CFM rating is to measure the inner diameter of the venturi. The 144s had a 1" venturi and are rated at 130 cfm. The 170s had a 1.1" venturi and are rated @ 150 cfm. The 200s had a 1.2" venturi and are rated @ 185 cfm.

Adios, David

 

[rommaster2]

Howdy:

Rommaster- The 1100s got the automatic choke beginning in the 1965 model year. Only Comets and Meteor's had auto chokes prior to that time. If your 1100 is OEM with a manual choke it is likely off of a 1963- '64 Falcon or Fairlane 144, 170, or the earliest 200s, which 1st appeared in the '64 Fairlanes.

All three sizes look identical externally. The only sure way to determine the CFM rating is to measure the inner diameter of the venturi. The 144s had a 1" venturi and are rated at 130 cfm. The 170s had a 1.1" venturi and are rated @ 150 cfm. The 200s had a 1.2" venturi and are rated @ 185 cfm.

Adios, David

Cool thanks for the info, my engine is a 200 made in 65, the carb could be from the original engine though, cause even though my cars a 65 this is a junk yard replacement. However my car was made late 64, so maybe *shrug*. I'll measure when i get the carb back (its being rebuilt).