All Small Six 200 intake manifold porting

[alwill923]

I am doing some brain storming and have come up with this among other things.
What if I drilled a hole opposite each intake runner in the manifold, on the side for a straight shot into the intake runner. I could go in through the hole with a long carbide cutter and remove the casting flash and smooth out the runner. When done tap the holes and install a pipe plug. I know there would not be a lot of thread engagement but not a lot is needed for vacuum. I should have a bad head to practice on first to see if doable. I am thinking a 3/8 pipe plug, just enough to get the cutter through or silver solder, JB weld a patch. Maybe tig weld with silicon bronze a brass or sheet metal patch.

Opinions???
Thanks

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, your idea might work out great, but it will be hard to see what you are doing, and hard to control the grinding burr. You may end up with some nicely spaced ports for MPFI or nitrous. Good luck

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

I'm porting my head right now too. I keep wondering if I'd gain anything by knocking out the casting/freeze plugs on each end. Would that accomplish the same thing with less work?

 

[Steve N Grace]

I think it is worth trying, I have been thinking along the same lines. It seems the manifold/ head would be a great candidate for the extrude hone process as well. Would love to hear your opinions if you do try.

 

[bubba22349]

Way to think outside the box alwill923, I do think to be able to do much in the way of any porting of the intake log and intake port openings you would really need to cut out the complete top of one of the flat top or hex large log heads then you could make some mounting bosses around it and weld them into the log, so you could use a gasket to seal it up. Next design and fab up a new log top out of a piece of sheet Steel or Aluminum Plate stock to mount your choice of Carb or Carb's to it you could also then increase the logs volume too. I have though about doing this now for quite awhile I remember seeing a picture that one of our site members had posted awhile back were he had nicely mill cut the top out I don't remember seeing it completed though.

The Extrude Hone method certainly would be an excellent choice without going to the above more extreme mod. Removing the two end freeze plugs for access might also be a good idea that way you could do the inside of the log, still you won't be able to get much if any into the intake ports though. I wonder if anyone has used a mini camera or bore scope to look inside of the log and the intake ports to know if there is any significant casting flash, Ford castings usually are quite nice so I am not so sure there is that much to be improved on? Best of luck on your experiment.

 

[drag-200stang]

90% of gain is within 2'' of the valve seat with diminishing gains as you go farther from the seat. Full size hole, no dime size, hole tri power and two-barrel carbs will give good gains, fussing with some flashing wont gain much. Hitting water will gain less.
Yes, ford casting are good, I have not seen much flashing in the log or port's.

 

[alwill923]

Thanks for all the replies. My Main concern would be welding on the manifold and causing cracks. I am not an experienced cast iron welder. The tig would be aluminum bronze for cast iron not silicon bronze. I have both. The bronze requires less heat as you do not have to melt the base metal and flows like solder. I have used it on my 240 6 to make tall rocker covers for roller rockers, but that was sheet metal. Search me in the big six for that story.

Where I would cut the openings is to be decided. I did look in the exhaust ports and saw flashing intrusions and assume the intake has the same.

I am not building a high performance engine. It is my anal retentive personality that makes me do these things. This is for my "new" 1960 falcon which I just got about two months ago. It has a 144 now which I want to replace with a 200 which I presently have, not sure of the shape yet. I also will be replacing the fordomatic with a c4 which I have one but again not sure of the shape. Right now I am just getting the car running with the 144 which I know runs and the transmission has first and reverse as I drove it from one garage to the other.

200 Engine: I will have hardened valve seats, positive valve seals, new valves installed in the head if good. Block, heads and crank at the machine shop now. Plan on installing a Schneider mild cam and forged pistons. I know I do not need forged pistons. I have diamond pistons in my 240 and am happy with them. CR no more than 9.5 or less. With the diamond pistons I can get them made with a specific compression height to get the best quench clearance with out milling the block with more than a clean up and they have floating pins so I can put the pistons on the rods myself. Block will have to be bored but size not determined yet.
Also ARP rod bolts, main and head studs. Yes, over kill I know.

About the car:
Just could not pass up the falcon. No rust or at least I have not found any yet. 3.51 rear gears which I thought was odd but this was an option in 1960 the manual says. Upholstery and interior is good. Seats need new foam. Heck the 13 inch tires are new. Car is a texas car with 57,000 miles on it. No, not perfect but if it was I would not want it. To me its the journey but not a 5year project. At my age I have nothing much to do anyway and I don't play golf!

Car is on the lift and put in new brake and fuel lines, new steering linkage, tightened steering box. The usual stuff. Oh, I do plan on rewiring the car as the wire insulation is brittle and has been fixed in places. I also will replace the generator with 10SI internal regulator alternator. I figure about 3 months to get running with the 144 engine unless it's bad. The 200 engine and C4 next year.

I will see if I can get a head to practice on??????

 

[Soldmy66]

FWIW - I have been told that Extrude Honing is very expensive.

 

[R_Calris]

if you want to push the 200's CR up to 9.5 you will be running premium fuels. if you aren't planning on hitting a track with it, keeping around the more stock CRs of 8.2-8.5 will still allow you to build up quite a bit, and still run on regular unleaded.

if you are still set on the 9.5 CR, let me recommend the 1JZ-GTE Toyota conrods, b/c you stated you were going with custom forged pistons anyway. a total of 0.028" (0.014" on each side) would have to be shaved off the sides of the bottom end of the H-Beam 1JZ-GTE conrods, and the crank journals would have to be turned down a bit for the 1Jz bearings to fit, but they are much stronger, and will increase the overall longevity of the 200; especially if you are planning on building it up to a 9.5 CR

however keep in mind that a 200 (3.3 L) is an interference engine already. It is highly recommended to put a double-roller timing chain on the 200's because of this. if the timing goes on the little-six, the bottom of the conrods crash into the camshaft. not something any of us want to deal with.

I hope to hear more from this.

 

[alwill923]

My 240 in my 65 truck has 9.5 CR with a 0.045 quench. Yes, I put 93 in it. It has a Schneider solid roller cam. Intake valve closes 60 degrees ABDC. That is another story. I agree 9.5 will be to much, maybe max 8.8-9.0. Stock I believe was 8.7 but better gas in 1960. I promised myself I would not go to far with this car as far as engine performance goes. The trap is easy to fall into. I think the ARP rod bolts will be enough, just clean up the ports as best I can, get the new valves and hardened seats. Maybe just get hyper pistons and CC the heads and block to decide how much to mill the block slightly. That will be decided next year. Right now I will run with the 144 and 2 speed trans.

Yes Extrude Honing is very expensive. If I was to go that far I would go with a 250 with an aluminum head if I could find one. This is why I decided to stay with the 200. Keep me out of the trap.

Thanks for all of the comments

 

[bubba22349]

The Static Compression Ratio for a 170 or 200 six can be up to a 9.2 to 1 Compression Ratio (C.R.) for use with regular 87 fuel if you optimize the short block by at least Zero decking the block or also even milling it a little more were the pistons are then sitting up proud above the block deck some. when used with today's thicker .044 to .050 Composition Head Gaskets so as to keep the Quench Distance (Q. D.) in the ideal .035 to .050 range. For example if you look at the stock small log 1963 1/2 to 1968 Ford 200's they were only a 8.7 to 1 C.R. and with the stock .022 steel shim head gasket it averaged to a .041 Q.D. this was a very good design in it's day. Other things that effect fuel you use can be dependent on your local area conditions such as the Alt., Air Temps, the and the Terrain, plus camshaft you choose to use. So 9.5 to 1 is certainly quite doable with a 200 six in fact you could even go to a 10 or more to 1 as long as the cam grind doesn't raise the Dynamic Compression Ratio up to much. Best of luck and I will be looking forward to hearing more about your 1960 Falcon car and its 200 Six buildup.

 

[TheFutura]

Way to think outside the box alwill923, I do think to be able to do much in the way of any porting of the intake log and intake port openings you would really need to cut out the complete top of one of the flat top or hex large log heads then you could make some mounting bosses around it and weld them into the log, so you could use a gasket to seal it up. Next design and fab up a new log top out of a piece of sheet Steel or Aluminum Plate stock to mount your choice of Carb or Carb's to it you could also then increase the logs volume too. I have though about doing this now for quite awhile I remember seeing a picture that one of our site members had posted awhile back were he had nicely mill cut the top out I don't remember seeing it completed though.

The Extrude Hone method certainly would be an excellent choice without going to the above more extreme mod. Removing the two end freeze plugs for access might also be a good idea that way you could do the inside of the log, still you won't be able to get much if any into the intake ports though. I wonder if anyone has used a mini camera or bore scope to look inside of the log and the intake ports to know if there is any significant casting flash, Ford castings usually are quite nice so I am not so sure there is that much to be improved on? Best of luck on your experiment.

 

[TheFutura]

The intake ports are approximately 1.3” W x
1.1” H , half an inch down the hole. There does not seem to be any flashing anywhere, and inside the log the casting feels like 220 or 320 grit sandpaper. .250 thickness at top of log. This head had been been patched, so it was expendable.
Port size is now accurate

 

[alwill923]

I have two manifolds, one small log and one large log (M manifold). I can not bring myself to experiment with either or these. I am basically doing very slight modifications and they do not warrant extreme measures for the performance I am building. I promised myself I would not go down the rabbit hole on this.

The large log head is the one I want to use. It cc'd to 49.4 cc's. It appears to be a 62 cc head that was cut down so the flat part of the combustion chamber is even with the head surface. This will give a good quench surface. I will be ordering custom pistons so the compression height can be adjusted to make the piston top flush with the deck. This will be instead of cutting the deck. I can adjust the compression by a custom D shaped recess in the piston top to get the required CR. I am looking at a 3 to 4 cc recess to get approximately 9:1 CR.

Cam will be a schneider 256H. They have no cam cores so I sent them a stock cam and they will regrind. Still have to make final calculations depending on head gasket thickness. Waiting on Felpro gaskets.

 

[drag-200stang]

A more costly option would be the longer 1JZ rod that are longer for a better rod to stroke ratio and the piston would be lighter.
Oops, I see that has been posted.