4-71 supercharger?
- Thread starter jwhoss76
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Anonymous
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Whittey, do you have a website for every question? Thanks. here's one you may or may not have: http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product ... s/M90.html
Fordman75 you lost me on the lightning blowers but thanks for the info!
Fordman75 you lost me on the lightning blowers but thanks for the info!
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Anonymous
Guest
Nah, most of the time its a quick google to find the answer. I don't even save most of 'em.
-=Whittey=-
-=Whittey=-
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Anonymous
Guest
Blowers suck 
Long live the hair dryer
-=Whittey=-
Long live the hair dryer
-=Whittey=-
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Anonymous
Guest
In it's original applications the 4/71 and 6/71 blowers were mounted on the side of the engine, with the blower turned on it's side.
A better series of Detroit Diesel blowers are the 53 series. They are smaller and have 3 lobe rotors with a twist. You will find them on V6/53 and V8/53 engines. Making a blower drive would be a custom afair but some B/M parts might fit.
These blowers are small compact and reliable. You can find them for about $50 or less.
John
A better series of Detroit Diesel blowers are the 53 series. They are smaller and have 3 lobe rotors with a twist. You will find them on V6/53 and V8/53 engines. Making a blower drive would be a custom afair but some B/M parts might fit.
These blowers are small compact and reliable. You can find them for about $50 or less.
John
I dunno John. I can see the benefits of a blower, it'll help bring the power band in the engine to a lower RPM level. Which is what I want in an off-road engine. I was considering building a naturally aspirated engine but the power band would be too high and that is not good for off-road. When playin in the mud or crawling on the rocks you want the power band to start just off-idle. Do you think a M90 will be sufficient? I read the spec sheet on the Eaton website but I'm still not totally convinced.
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Anonymous
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Hoss, a few years ago I was deep in the canyons around Richardson Pass east of Tucson when fellow came along in a dune buggy and easily scampered up the slope that had defeated us for 6 hours. He stopped at the top to chat with us while we mobbed his buggy to find out how it had come up that cut so easily. It seems that he had fitted a MB 300D turbo to a 2100cc VW motor, and it made huge torque at very low rpms. He did say that it ran out of air at about 3500 rpms, but that the low end was simply awesome. Something to think about... 
No offense Stan but I'm into rockcrawling and turbo lag can get you hurt bad in ceratin kinds of situations. Superchargers don't lag nearly as much and when your perched on a ledge sliding backwards you don't have time to spool up a turbo. JMO Of course Carter carbs can get you hurt too, lemme telll ya
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Anonymous
Guest
Hey John,
I see your concern. Your talking about a REAL Rock Crawler, the kind with double reduction gear boxes and such.
You guys put your selves in very dangerous situations and that is where the Eaton has a built in safety feature, the bypass valve.
The Bypass valve on the Eaton was ment for allowing the motorist to get better gas milage. But in your case it will allow the engine to still run if you blow the belt off for some reason.
An Eaton 90 with a 2.5 to 1 set of pullies will top out (rpm wise) at about 4500 rpm. But it will produce a lot of boost at the low end, over 8 psi at 1500 rpm. It will be CRITICAL to control detonation at this low engine speed. So you may want to go with a little less pulley ratio.
The Eaton 90 is more than capable to do the job. Ted is working on twin Eatons, but his application is Drag Racing. He has a wicked roller cam that will bleed off some of the low end boost. He will also be running E-85 fuel that is about 105 octane.
So you see the Eaton is not just for hauling kids to school, it also will haul A$$!
The other John....some where in a swamp in Florida
I see your concern. Your talking about a REAL Rock Crawler, the kind with double reduction gear boxes and such.
You guys put your selves in very dangerous situations and that is where the Eaton has a built in safety feature, the bypass valve.
The Bypass valve on the Eaton was ment for allowing the motorist to get better gas milage. But in your case it will allow the engine to still run if you blow the belt off for some reason.
An Eaton 90 with a 2.5 to 1 set of pullies will top out (rpm wise) at about 4500 rpm. But it will produce a lot of boost at the low end, over 8 psi at 1500 rpm. It will be CRITICAL to control detonation at this low engine speed. So you may want to go with a little less pulley ratio.
The Eaton 90 is more than capable to do the job. Ted is working on twin Eatons, but his application is Drag Racing. He has a wicked roller cam that will bleed off some of the low end boost. He will also be running E-85 fuel that is about 105 octane.
So you see the Eaton is not just for hauling kids to school, it also will haul A$$!
The other John....some where in a swamp in Florida
The 4/71 is perfectly sized for a sub 327 cube engine. Here is a little 202 Holden with one.
Site :arrow: http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/dadscar2.html
http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/motor3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/motor4.jpg
If an under bonnet conversion is needed, a GM 3800 or Ford 4.0/4.2 distributor less ignition could be used, and it mounted either bytilting or allowing the super charger to sit up so it doesn't hit the spring towers on a Falcon/Mustang. Every one should see how the GMC's ran. I've even looked at chaindriving it from the crank shaft via a dual roller chain and sproket, very similar to waht the GMC engines did. The bell housing would need an inch adaptor and the gearbox moved back, but with one oil pickup, it could be done. Parent link is http://www.tractopartes.com/equipos.htm A nice set of two downdraft IDA 44, or a Holley 4-bbl or TBI injector may sit under the air cleaner, or you could run it as it is, with a TBI unit on the intake manifold. Where theres a will, theres a way!
Just make up a big box to match the 4/71 size (based on 2/3 rds the length E in the table supplied, and just use the modular distance B and G for the rest. Get measuring. Remember, a non-cross-flow engine is made for super charging more so than a cross-flow. Try this link from Holley. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/SCTech3.html
Having seen every kind of supercharger known to man, I have lots of photo's. Our works Pettybone Hoe, used for stabilising tar-seal roads, has an early Detroit, non turbo 6/71. Florida is right, the mounting point is quite a good way down the side of the block. Although I still haven't posted them, I have been doing lots of scale drawings of mountings to sixes.
About the V6/53, I'm not sure, but the V6/71's are not a really good flow producer for a big V8, often they are 20% down on peak cfm compared to the in-line 6/71, but that's of no consequence on a 300 and certainly not a 250. The case and mounting on all V6/71 superchargers is very trim. Late last year, I took a workmate to a scrap yard in Oamaru. There was the base V6/71 Detriot, and it had come from one of the big British Bedford Trucks. No one else had even looked at it, because its nested in the V of the engine.
The 305/351/478 60 degree GMC V6, basically half a GMC V12, got conveted to Diesel spec. I'm not certain if the supercharged 6/53 was based on this engine, or not. It was something of a turkey, but it was designed to use the tooling GMC had for this engine, not the V6/71 tooling. If you look at both the V6/71 and V6/53 in this link, you'll see just how compact it is!
http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htmhttp://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Jolly-351v6.htm
Site :arrow: http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/dadscar2.html
http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/motor3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/blown_202/motor4.jpg
If an under bonnet conversion is needed, a GM 3800 or Ford 4.0/4.2 distributor less ignition could be used, and it mounted either bytilting or allowing the super charger to sit up so it doesn't hit the spring towers on a Falcon/Mustang. Every one should see how the GMC's ran. I've even looked at chaindriving it from the crank shaft via a dual roller chain and sproket, very similar to waht the GMC engines did. The bell housing would need an inch adaptor and the gearbox moved back, but with one oil pickup, it could be done. Parent link is http://www.tractopartes.com/equipos.htm A nice set of two downdraft IDA 44, or a Holley 4-bbl or TBI injector may sit under the air cleaner, or you could run it as it is, with a TBI unit on the intake manifold. Where theres a will, theres a way!
Just make up a big box to match the 4/71 size (based on 2/3 rds the length E in the table supplied, and just use the modular distance B and G for the rest. Get measuring. Remember, a non-cross-flow engine is made for super charging more so than a cross-flow. Try this link from Holley. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/SCTech3.html
Having seen every kind of supercharger known to man, I have lots of photo's. Our works Pettybone Hoe, used for stabilising tar-seal roads, has an early Detroit, non turbo 6/71. Florida is right, the mounting point is quite a good way down the side of the block. Although I still haven't posted them, I have been doing lots of scale drawings of mountings to sixes.
About the V6/53, I'm not sure, but the V6/71's are not a really good flow producer for a big V8, often they are 20% down on peak cfm compared to the in-line 6/71, but that's of no consequence on a 300 and certainly not a 250. The case and mounting on all V6/71 superchargers is very trim. Late last year, I took a workmate to a scrap yard in Oamaru. There was the base V6/71 Detriot, and it had come from one of the big British Bedford Trucks. No one else had even looked at it, because its nested in the V of the engine.
The 305/351/478 60 degree GMC V6, basically half a GMC V12, got conveted to Diesel spec. I'm not certain if the supercharged 6/53 was based on this engine, or not. It was something of a turkey, but it was designed to use the tooling GMC had for this engine, not the V6/71 tooling. If you look at both the V6/71 and V6/53 in this link, you'll see just how compact it is!
http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htmhttp://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Jolly-351v6.htm
Thanks Xecute, That was very informative. I like the custom manifold on dads car!
John, you know you're getting me in trouble....But what the heck.
I haven't got a double reduction box yet but I'm working on it I have had my back end hanging over a cliff and had the Carter carb crap out on me! Not fun! Hold the brakes, hit the emergency and crank like crazy till it fires, then hammer down. Then you can let go of the seat cushion It's a heck of a lot of fun. I also love running trails, but some get real tight and narrow and the driving gets really technical to avoid body damage.
I didn't know about the bypass valve in the Eaton, thanks. Looks like I'll be building a blown motor after all. Hmmm so what do you think? Should I build to run about 8-8.5 compression before induction? With the 2.5 to 1 I mean. Would a water injection unit be a good idea? I've seen them for Hondas for only $230 from Jegs. Do you think one of those would provide enough of an edge against detonation? I'm almost thinking I'd need two of them. I dunno
John, you know you're getting me in trouble....But what the heck.
I haven't got a double reduction box yet but I'm working on it I have had my back end hanging over a cliff and had the Carter carb crap out on me! Not fun! Hold the brakes, hit the emergency and crank like crazy till it fires, then hammer down. Then you can let go of the seat cushion It's a heck of a lot of fun. I also love running trails, but some get real tight and narrow and the driving gets really technical to avoid body damage.I didn't know about the bypass valve in the Eaton, thanks. Looks like I'll be building a blown motor after all. Hmmm so what do you think? Should I build to run about 8-8.5 compression before induction? With the 2.5 to 1 I mean. Would a water injection unit be a good idea? I've seen them for Hondas for only $230 from Jegs. Do you think one of those would provide enough of an edge against detonation? I'm almost thinking I'd need two of them. I dunno
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Anonymous
Guest
Water injection will help a lot. It can be a very simple homemade unit or a mid-range Sperco unit, like I had, or a very high dollar computer controlled unit. They all work, just some a lot better than others.
I used a Sperco on a N/A Mopar 440 Mag that I had to make run on 89 octane. It worked, but I had to set it up on a chassis dyno in order to dial it in. I had to change the timing also, but not as much as you would think. I guess the fact that I got a high compression big block to digest 89 octane and be a daily driver says that water injection works.
It also keeps the top end of the engine very clean.
If you do a Google search for Turbocharger Water-injection then you will find hundreds of web pages to read.
Now don't let me lead you down the rosey path. Water injection is not a cure all. It has its limits. If your Dynamic Compression is extreemly high then a little more cam duration will be needed to lower it, or use less boost.
I just don't know exactly where the limit is.
I'm going to send you a PM about a double reduction transmission idea.
John
I used a Sperco on a N/A Mopar 440 Mag that I had to make run on 89 octane. It worked, but I had to set it up on a chassis dyno in order to dial it in. I had to change the timing also, but not as much as you would think. I guess the fact that I got a high compression big block to digest 89 octane and be a daily driver says that water injection works.
It also keeps the top end of the engine very clean.
If you do a Google search for Turbocharger Water-injection then you will find hundreds of web pages to read.
Now don't let me lead you down the rosey path. Water injection is not a cure all. It has its limits. If your Dynamic Compression is extreemly high then a little more cam duration will be needed to lower it, or use less boost.
I just don't know exactly where the limit is.
I'm going to send you a PM about a double reduction transmission idea.
John
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Anonymous
Guest
i couldent put an m90 on a 200 i6 could i? i found one on ebay and if it would work ill go for it
