Inline6Merc
Well-known member
What would be the best combo to run on the street as a daily driver but would go half way decent down the 1/4 mile?
LAter, Curtis
LAter, Curtis
A good combination for street and strip
- Thread starter Inline6Merc
- Start date
Best combination 200 would be the Ford copy of Holdens best 202 streeters.
500CFM #4412 Holley for power best power with an economy penalty. A 350 CFM #7448 if you are unlikey to mind less than 160 hp or so.
The 2100 Autolite (1963 to 1970's) is possible swap for economy, with a bewidering range from little 125 hp net ( found in 164 hp gross 260 V8), or right up to the 200 hp net (265 hp 351C 2V).
The direct mount Schendahl type adaptor to fit any of these carbs above. Make sure the throttle bores can open all the way if its got the bigger carbs.
The later unleaded big runner head, proper electronic ignition, an American grind cam less than 280 degrees (264 and 272 seem common), and a good FSPP cam chain and timing gear set.
The sump on a six suffers from lots of windage at high rpm. Over 5000 rpm, the oil capacity is insufficent, and most of the many quarts of oil end up in the air in 60 thou droplets hammering the crank. The idea is to get an Aussie Hi Energy sump or over fill the stock US one and accept the power loss.
The head needs all the reworking found in the Ford Falcon Six book. Porting, blended 3 angle vlave cuts, port dividers properly pegged in, a good Clifford exhast with thick gaskets torqued down in daily stages, or a set of Hooker or FSPP headers to a V8-style exhast.
If you've decked the block to an O deck, and used the good aftermarket +30 HSC Tempo/Topaz pistons and a fairly thick composite gasket, there is lots of performance hiding.
New bearings, rebore, a well fitted rear crank seal, and a fully cleaned up block with no slag on the cylinder walls.
People have found on the Aussie Holdens that engines of 3.3 liters love nice big valves like you find on the later Ford 200/250 I6's. These bigger two barrels run well as long as there is not to much duration. Over 280 degrees and 450 lift, they can be touchy. The bigger cams with Holley 350's induce very high port velocities at various rpms, and poor idle quality.
In Aussie, the general rule is that a good six will give an easy 160 hp with a 260 degree cam, a Chev style 9 port head, big valves, and just a single jug 1-bbl with a set of headers can do the following.
It will propel a 3000 pound Holden to 115 mph, and to low 16 second quarters with just a 3 speed manual gear box.
In an early 2450 pound Mustang, a 2-bbl 500cfm engine like this, perhaps with a T5, will get up to the 175 hp or more mark with unfussed ease. Thats 14 second quarter territory. In a more portly X-body Granada or later Fox LTD, weighing in at the 3500 pound mark, there are mid 16 secon quarters. A C3/C4/C5 will loose quite a lot of power unless its shift kitted with a good sharp set of 3.27's or 3.45's, and it would be hard to break that.
Time and time again, V8's or sixes with the same cubes per pound show that sixes give better
1) performance off the mark,
2) better quarter times, even if the trap mph's are the same.
3) Better 60 foot and 1/8 mile 660 feet times.
For class indexes, the 12 pound per cube Toranas with 202's and 2450 pounds show a clean set of heals to 302 Windsors and 351C Falcons. To see a tubed Powerglided Torana 202 do low 11's with 351's having a hard time doing consistant 12's is a testament to this.
In the old days, in Australia, FJ Holdens with wild 208 cubers were mopping the tables where Al Tuners inspired 351 Falcon GT's were unable to beat. But that's history. Today, theres 50 years of good combination information to share.
500CFM #4412 Holley for power best power with an economy penalty. A 350 CFM #7448 if you are unlikey to mind less than 160 hp or so.
The 2100 Autolite (1963 to 1970's) is possible swap for economy, with a bewidering range from little 125 hp net ( found in 164 hp gross 260 V8), or right up to the 200 hp net (265 hp 351C 2V).
The direct mount Schendahl type adaptor to fit any of these carbs above. Make sure the throttle bores can open all the way if its got the bigger carbs.
The later unleaded big runner head, proper electronic ignition, an American grind cam less than 280 degrees (264 and 272 seem common), and a good FSPP cam chain and timing gear set.
The sump on a six suffers from lots of windage at high rpm. Over 5000 rpm, the oil capacity is insufficent, and most of the many quarts of oil end up in the air in 60 thou droplets hammering the crank. The idea is to get an Aussie Hi Energy sump or over fill the stock US one and accept the power loss.
The head needs all the reworking found in the Ford Falcon Six book. Porting, blended 3 angle vlave cuts, port dividers properly pegged in, a good Clifford exhast with thick gaskets torqued down in daily stages, or a set of Hooker or FSPP headers to a V8-style exhast.
If you've decked the block to an O deck, and used the good aftermarket +30 HSC Tempo/Topaz pistons and a fairly thick composite gasket, there is lots of performance hiding.
New bearings, rebore, a well fitted rear crank seal, and a fully cleaned up block with no slag on the cylinder walls.
People have found on the Aussie Holdens that engines of 3.3 liters love nice big valves like you find on the later Ford 200/250 I6's. These bigger two barrels run well as long as there is not to much duration. Over 280 degrees and 450 lift, they can be touchy. The bigger cams with Holley 350's induce very high port velocities at various rpms, and poor idle quality.
In Aussie, the general rule is that a good six will give an easy 160 hp with a 260 degree cam, a Chev style 9 port head, big valves, and just a single jug 1-bbl with a set of headers can do the following.
It will propel a 3000 pound Holden to 115 mph, and to low 16 second quarters with just a 3 speed manual gear box.
In an early 2450 pound Mustang, a 2-bbl 500cfm engine like this, perhaps with a T5, will get up to the 175 hp or more mark with unfussed ease. Thats 14 second quarter territory. In a more portly X-body Granada or later Fox LTD, weighing in at the 3500 pound mark, there are mid 16 secon quarters. A C3/C4/C5 will loose quite a lot of power unless its shift kitted with a good sharp set of 3.27's or 3.45's, and it would be hard to break that.
Time and time again, V8's or sixes with the same cubes per pound show that sixes give better
1) performance off the mark,
2) better quarter times, even if the trap mph's are the same.
3) Better 60 foot and 1/8 mile 660 feet times.
For class indexes, the 12 pound per cube Toranas with 202's and 2450 pounds show a clean set of heals to 302 Windsors and 351C Falcons. To see a tubed Powerglided Torana 202 do low 11's with 351's having a hard time doing consistant 12's is a testament to this.
In the old days, in Australia, FJ Holdens with wild 208 cubers were mopping the tables where Al Tuners inspired 351 Falcon GT's were unable to beat. But that's history. Today, theres 50 years of good combination information to share.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I am making the assumption that you have a good engine and drive train and that you are not planning a rebuild. Just want to get some extra power out of a good running stock car.
First, I agree with Slade. However, you can do about as well, for less money, with a Holley/Weber or 32/36 on a proper adapter (Clifford), a set of headers with port divider and a good ignition (Ignitor or DSII).
I like the 32/36 (Holley-Weber) for the street as it is progressive. It will help keep intake velocity high (good bottom end torque) and gets good mileage. Then when you need extra flow it is there. To add the carb without the header just doesn't get it.
Ignition. You don't say what year your car is but if you are using an early 60's autolite 1100 with the Load-O-Matic distributor you will need to change the dizzy to the dual advance type (vac and mechanical) to use the Holley-Weber. 68 - 73 dizzy with Pertronix or the later DSII (1978+) will do.
I added a high lift, adjustable, rocker assembly. Great add for a stock car if you don't want to tear it down to add cam, lifters, head work etc.
These changes, properly carried out and tuned, will add 30-35 rear wheel HP to a 200.
Steve
First, I agree with Slade. However, you can do about as well, for less money, with a Holley/Weber or 32/36 on a proper adapter (Clifford), a set of headers with port divider and a good ignition (Ignitor or DSII).
I like the 32/36 (Holley-Weber) for the street as it is progressive. It will help keep intake velocity high (good bottom end torque) and gets good mileage. Then when you need extra flow it is there. To add the carb without the header just doesn't get it.
Ignition. You don't say what year your car is but if you are using an early 60's autolite 1100 with the Load-O-Matic distributor you will need to change the dizzy to the dual advance type (vac and mechanical) to use the Holley-Weber. 68 - 73 dizzy with Pertronix or the later DSII (1978+) will do.
I added a high lift, adjustable, rocker assembly. Great add for a stock car if you don't want to tear it down to add cam, lifters, head work etc.
These changes, properly carried out and tuned, will add 30-35 rear wheel HP to a 200.
Steve
Howdy Curtis and All:
You've posed a vexing brain teaser! And you gave no perameters!
The big generalities would be to;
* Start with the lightest package possible. Xtaxi already elluded to this issue. If you are limited to a pounds per HP class formula, you can always add weight where it will do the most good. A structural stiffening as needed. Weigh the addition of each and ever creature comforts as they make for a nice daily driver, but detract from ultimate performance. Build the chassis for best traction.
*Use the lowest rear gear, with TracLoc or PosiTraction, that is practical for your daily driving needs. If you have an overdrive trans a 3.50 or 3.70:1 gives a reasonable rpm cruising range at 65 mph, depending on tire size. If you're limited to a C4, a 3.25:1 is close to ideal in a dual purpose vehicle. An Auto trans will be easier to drive and probably more consistent. A C4 will need to be purpose built, so a T5 will probably be cheaper and more effective in a Dual Purpose rig in the long run.
*The head is key to many other components. It's flow characteristics will determine; the ideal lift and duration for the cam, The best carburation choice, compression ratio, ignition curve and exhaust. Your trans choice will also enter into this equations. Aussie and Argentina heads will be an advantage at higher rpms, but they are scarce and expensive. A modified, late model US head will require extensive modifications to get maximum performance.
But, in any case run as much CR as you can manage. All heads benefit from the same performance enhancing practices; volume matched chambers, multi-angle valve seats and faces, polished and shaped chambers, light weight and matched components, Port shaping, etc....
With a decked-to-zero block, I'd use the small dish replacement pistons and mill the head to the desired CR.
*It is not "Simple"! You will need to learn to tune any combination you come up with. Test and tune in an objective process. Practice your driving technique.
What a great, mind-stretching, adventure! I'll be anxiously waiting for updates as you carry it out.
Adios, David
You've posed a vexing brain teaser! And you gave no perameters!
The big generalities would be to;
* Start with the lightest package possible. Xtaxi already elluded to this issue. If you are limited to a pounds per HP class formula, you can always add weight where it will do the most good. A structural stiffening as needed. Weigh the addition of each and ever creature comforts as they make for a nice daily driver, but detract from ultimate performance. Build the chassis for best traction.
*Use the lowest rear gear, with TracLoc or PosiTraction, that is practical for your daily driving needs. If you have an overdrive trans a 3.50 or 3.70:1 gives a reasonable rpm cruising range at 65 mph, depending on tire size. If you're limited to a C4, a 3.25:1 is close to ideal in a dual purpose vehicle. An Auto trans will be easier to drive and probably more consistent. A C4 will need to be purpose built, so a T5 will probably be cheaper and more effective in a Dual Purpose rig in the long run.
*The head is key to many other components. It's flow characteristics will determine; the ideal lift and duration for the cam, The best carburation choice, compression ratio, ignition curve and exhaust. Your trans choice will also enter into this equations. Aussie and Argentina heads will be an advantage at higher rpms, but they are scarce and expensive. A modified, late model US head will require extensive modifications to get maximum performance.
But, in any case run as much CR as you can manage. All heads benefit from the same performance enhancing practices; volume matched chambers, multi-angle valve seats and faces, polished and shaped chambers, light weight and matched components, Port shaping, etc....
With a decked-to-zero block, I'd use the small dish replacement pistons and mill the head to the desired CR.
*It is not "Simple"! You will need to learn to tune any combination you come up with. Test and tune in an objective process. Practice your driving technique.
What a great, mind-stretching, adventure! I'll be anxiously waiting for updates as you carry it out.
Adios, David
