arc on balancer

[JackFish]

Front:

Rear ground strap:


You need both these grounds.
The top photo is my own little setup, but the principle is the same. Both the battery and engine are grounded to the chassis.
That wire with the yellow shrink wrap goes to the block. There are a couple of bolts holes for this purpose on the front passenger side of the block, just above the oil pan.

 

[Lazy JW]

Nice work JackFish

 

[Frankenstang]

I still cant seem to find the ground strap from the block to the firewall though, all i can find from anywhere on the engine is a ground from the starter to the firewall, and the solenoid to the block. The batt i think grounds out to somewhere on the frame

Starter to firewall should effectively act as block to firewall ground, although as mentioned...no such thing as too many gournds. After having some metal replaced (floorpans) on my '66 I can see how continuity could be effected by 44 years of corrosion. I added a ground to the dirver's side of the firewall (near the main bus). That ground goes all the way back to the ground on the passenger side of the block.

I'd definitely add a ground from the battery to the passenger side of the block.
This is the factory connection AFAIK. This is where the battery and alternator ground originally attach as shown in one of the schematics ludwig linked (note the ground leads coming off batt & alt with the universal icons...lines in upside down pyramid shape):
http://midlife66.com/wiring/66ignit.jpg

The ground coming off the alternator also relays over to the regulator (see diagram above wire #26)...there needs to be a clean ground there as well.

A blue arc would be hotter than a white/yellowish one in the spectrum, right? Makes me wonder back to Joe's comment about inadvertant contact inside the dizzy. IIRC the condensor and points all hook up via an insulated connection. If you have some part of that making contact with the dizzy housing you may get an unintended/misdirected spark charge. Spark plugs only act as the ground when the points open, so I'd also check the action on the points...make sure they're in fact closing all the way in between lobe eccentric openings as the dizzy shaft rotates (should be able to check point action with cap off while cranking). Here's a decent "how points work" article:
http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/Gas- ... stems.aspx
Good luck!

 

[lorwood]

Jackfish
Is that a cold air induction on the inner fender? I always wondered what the best way to route one of these would be.

 

[JackFish]

It's the stock Fairmont/Zephyr intake.

 

[ludwig]

I'd definitely add a ground from the battery to the passenger side of the block.
This is the factory connection AFAIK.

That IS the stock ground. The thick black wire from the neg terminal goes to a bolt on the passenger side of the block, close to the front. Then there is the ground strap/wire from the starter case or the bell housing to the firewall. You have to get the block grounded. The mounts are insulators and any other grounding would be incidental or insufficient. I have a stock (repro) wire at the starter. It looks like a 14 gauge wire. But I think a woven strap would be better.

 

[67coupe200]

OK here is what i did. I grounded the neg batt to the frame work around the rad, then i grounded the block to the same place. The spark seems to have stopped but will keep a close eye on it to make sure is doesn't come back.

 

[ludwig]

You have made a wise choice, Grasshopper.

 

[67coupe200]

such a simple solution for such a long post, but im glad that its working and thanks for all the help guys. Im sure ill be back next week with some other problem.

 

[67coupe200]

ok this sucks. its still there. I think i give up, im gonna have to take it o a mechanic

 

[fordconvert]

I have never tried it but what if the coil was wired backwards or for a + ground system?

 

[Lazy JW]

I wonder if he has something strange causing some static electricity, perhaps a slipping/bouncing/jiggling harmonic balancer or somesuch bizarre happening?
This is truly weird.

 

[67coupe200]

well i just had the balancer replaced from damper docs, I had a mechanic do it so I cant vouch for the work personally but they have been in business for a while now. Lets look at everything I've done to the car since I've had it, I've replaced the alternator, dizzy, coil, spark plugs, spark plug wires, battery is three years old, timing chain, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, master cylinder, turn signal switch, crank shaft seal, sway bar end links, and lastly i ground the battery and block to the radiator frame. Now with the exception of the timing chain, dizzy, balancer, and crank seal i did the work myself and these were jobs I was more than comfortable doing but there could still have been an error made. The day i got the car the battery was dead, it was dark when I went to jump it and sure enough I accidentally crossed the jumper cables. It fried the alternator, burned the crap out of my hand, and melted the jumper cables and god knows what else. If you can think of something else the could cause this problem I'm sure you'll let me know

 

[67coupe200]

now i wired the coil with the positive lead to the ignition isn't that right?

 

[Frankenstang]

now i wired the coil with the positive lead to the ignition isn't that right?

Yes, ignition lead goes to the positive post on the coil, and negative lead should go to distributor only...do you have a tach hooked up, and is it properly grounded?

A couple more questions to reassess where you are at this point.
1. Based on your original description of multiple arcs...is this still the case, or is it down to one?
2. Did you confirm your points/condensor connections inside the dizzy are tight and not making contact with the dizzy housing?
3. Did you confirm the plug wires are all in good shape?
4. How is it running? Any miss firing?
Lastly...

all i can find from anywhere on the engine is a ground from the starter to the firewall, and the solenoid to the block.

A ground connected to one of the solenoid connections?
Good luck!

 

[Lazy JW]

well i just had the balancer replaced from damper docs.....

Did the arcing show up immediately after the damper was replaced?

 

[67coupe200]

no tach, coil is hooked up right, wire condition is new, the car runs great now, the dizzy is band new and the points are clean, as best i can tell there now is only 1 arc. there is however an oil leak around that area and the damper is getting kinda oily. I noticed this arc to night i had the damper replaced but that doesn't mean it wasn't already there. one thing i was thinking is when the car was coking out and i was trying to time it there could have been a detonation in one of the cylinders expanding the gap on the plug causing the spark to go to the block or something like that but if that were the case it wouldn't run right and i would be able to tell if i was down a cylinder. I plan on replacing the starter solenoid and see if that helps although it works and don't see how that could be the problem

 

[Frankenstang]

all i can find from anywhere on the engine is a ground from the starter to the firewall, and the solenoid to the block.

A ground connected to one of the solenoid connections?

My surprise here would be if you had any qround wire connected to the solenoid at all. There are no ground wires that connect to any of the four posts of the solenoid, just positive battery and starter connections along with pos alternator and ignition connections for start-up and run. Again, there should be no ground wires connected to the starter solenoid unless someone connected a ground to one of the two mounting bolts which are insulated from the posts connections.

the car runs great now

That's good I'd still persist in resolving the extraneous voltage/arcing...as mentioned it's not a good thing, but I'm sure you'll track it down with some persistence...although it's definitely wierd
Good luck!

 

[Lazy JW]

This is strange. There is really no "normal" way that sparks should be able to emanate from the damper; the engine has reasonable grounds or it would not run.

I'm not positive as to how those balancers are constructed; is the outer ring insulated from the inner portion by the 'rubber' material? Is there any way that thing could have become magnetized or generate static electricity?
Joe

 

[Frankenstang]

Is there any way that thing could have become magnetized or generate static electricity?

I was wondering if that's where you were going Joe...what would be needed to create a "field"?...and why wouldn't the spark be dishcarging via an easier/proximate/connected path...rod/bearing connections?? AFAIK the outer rings are completely insulated via the rubber matl.