Are Headers the Difference?

[Anonymous]

I just finished a rebuild on my 200 for my 63 Falcon convertible. It came out nice, but, the problem is that I'm not really impressed with the power I got from the rebuild.

Although nothing too radical, I put quite a bit into it:

Comp Cam 252
Holley Weber 5200 (thinking about going to the 2300)
MSD Ignition
HSC Pistons
.030 off the head
Ported head
Flowmaster exhaust
C4
Maverick 8" rearend

I want to get the car over to someone with a dyno so I know the ignition and fuel are set properly. My question to the group. Do headers really make that much of a difference in HP? It's one thing that I didn't do when I put the engine together. I want to keep the six in my 63. I really like some of the engines you guys have put together. Any input would be appreciated.

Jeff

 

[ASMART]

I don't know from experience but it appears you have basically created a funnel. You have helped the air get into the engine but haven't addressed getting it out. With out airflow, power isn't gained.

 

[CobraSix]

Headers will help, but you have to realize just how much you can get.

Most 6s start out with about 65RWHP. Right now, you probably have about 80 RWHP. While pure numbers wise that isn't a lot, but % wise, that's pretty good. With the headers, that may give you a nother 5 HP.

Slade

 

[addo]

They will help, but not a huge amount. The cam is very mild, too mild for some of us! You didn't say which era head, or the valve sizes.

A stage 1 shift kit or just the "shift improver" kit will also add a little punch to the combo.

Rather than add headers now (unless you wanted to), I would go up in the cam/valvetrain specs (more like 270°), and dial the distributor to suit.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[xctasy]

Oh boy, are you onto a good one. A rebuilt engine with a cam!

If the existing cast header is without a port divider, or is of the later emissions type, then it is a fairly poor flower of exhast gas. In most instances, its nothing to get a 20% boost just through:-

1. optimising the ignition advance,
2. carb size
3. carb jetting,
4. all to suit the reduced restriction.

To get 20%, the exhast system must be reduced in backpressure. A 25% increase through just headers,exhast, ignition and carb alterations with no other changes is entirely realistic.

Dyno tuning can allow you to get power that other people with cams don't even find. It's nothing for an engine to gain 15% more power after being optimised on a dyno, and the large majority of those horses comes through the ignition and jetting alone.

In summary, our 65 hp at the bags could go to 80 just by dyno optimisation to the carb and ignition and perhaps a low restriction exhast pipe, but with the stock cast header. Port divider helps.

The headers are the last step inthe line. Get it dyno tuned. The stock Weber 5200 is okay to 125 flywheel hp, so that factory rating of 120 -125 hp could be the truth as a net flywheel figure, not just gross!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the information on what I can expect from my engine.

Additional details:

The head is from a '78 200.
I have also added the port divider.
I ported out the exhaust manifold a bit to match what I did on the head

It sounds like my cam is too mild (at least too mild compared to you guys!). Would stepping up to a 270 degree cam be better than adding headers?

Jeff

 

[CobraSix]

There is another way to "fake" your cam specs. It's easier if the engine is already in the car. Add some higher ratio rockers, like the ones FSPP sells. 1.6 will increase your valve lift, but also in effect adds about 4* to your duration. 252 is extremely close to stock. If you don't mind pulling the engine, I would go at least 260. that's what I have and it really helps. Otherwise, look at adding some better rockers.

Slade

 

[rbohm]

8) the amount of power that headers free up will depend on how choked off the stock exhaust system is. on our little sixes it is fairly choked down by the stock manifolds, so adding headers should add 10-15 hp a tthe flywheel. by the same token the 252 cam is good for a very mild build, but i would suggest moving to the 260 cam. a bit more lift and duration add a bit more power, without being too radical. the extra power adds flexability to the engine.

 

[80broncoman]

How did you put the larger carb on the intake?
1. Did you mearly use a bolt on (funnel) 2bbl to 1bbl adapter? or
2. Did you mill or cut the log and bolt on a plate for form a base?

Number 2 I think is a mile ahead of the bolt on adapter.

 

[BIGREDRASA]

You don't say what axle ratio you have now. Did you have the same axle in before the rebuild? If you are using a numerically higher ratio now, you will not feel the increase in power as much, except at top end. If you went from say a 3.03 to a 2.80, it may feel like you're starting out in second gear.

 

[Anonymous]

Answer to the carb mounting question: I bolted the 5200 to the intake manifold with a Clifford adapter. Is there a better way to add this carb to the 6 cylinder intake?

Answer to the axle question: I removed the small 7" (or 7.5") rearend that was stock for my 63 and bolted up an 8" one from a Maverick V8 (not sure exactly the gear ratio). It must be at least a 3.03, although I should verify it.

Any thoughts?

 

[80broncoman]

This is one way to put a 2bbl on a log intake, http://inlinefever.homestead.com/RamAir.htm

I have seen another version of this is to instead of cuting more holes just
cut the single hole in a oval shaped whatever size is needed to fit the carb you have. no matter which of these way it is done a plate is needed for a base for the carb to bolt it to.

 

[Anonymous]

woops, almost forgot. This image is taken from Doug's website(MustangGeezer).

 

[Anonymous]

Does opening the intake up, such as the picture above, offer that much more of an improvement in breathing compared to the Clifford adapter?

Jeff

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Another question, what size tires are you running now? Different/larger diameter tires + higher gear ratio = feeble acceleration.

 

[80broncoman]

Yes I think it will make a difference. As the closer you stick to stock performance it will make less of a difference. Where you are at now it may not do a whole lot. But the more other things get changed the more it will need to be done.
Just like the difference between a $.25 squirt gun and $5.00 super soaker!
You wanna get some one wet or wanna soak them!

 

[Anonymous]

I wanna soak them (at least a litttle)!!!

I know my rebuild has been a little on the mild side compared to some of the others. I guess I was hoping to get some feedback from the group that, what I'm getting from a performance stanpoint, is what I should be expecting. I've put a ton of money into this project. Adding the cam and headers over time won't break the bank. By the way, it's a great convertible.

Answer to the tire size question: I went from 13" tires to 14" when I swapped out the rearend for the 8" rear.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there I have a brand new! Never been used or installed clifford long tube header for the I6. Its Jet Hot ceramic coated, its a gorgeous piece, I have all necessary pieces to install it including port divider, and special header bolts, and gaskets. I payed around $450 for it but i will et it go for cheaper, its still in its box!

email me maranello550@msn.com , I have pics

 

[addo]

One of our members (turbo2256) suggested that keeping the axis of rotation of the butterflies, parallel to the "log", was advisable. Aside from that, any less restriction is good!

Any engine has a limiting factor. Intake, exhaust, physical strength... If you cam it up it may be limited by the stock exhaust. If you change that it may become the carburetion. Fix the carb and the limit becomes the intake itself. You can go on a long way and spend a lot of money. It all depends on arriving at a point where you can enjoy it the most.

Remember with the cam may well be a head skim, timing set, lifters also.

Adam.

 

[falcon fanatic]

Hi Falcon 63
I'd love to see some pictures of your car. you can check out my 63 convertible on my website.
To answer your question, yes, headers will absolutely make a difference. I won't say they will make THE difference, but none of the other mods suggested here will do much WITHOUT headers. Also, they are easy to install. Put the headers on, do the shift kit on the trans, get the dyno tune. That will give you a strong baseline. THEN you can decide whether to modify the log and add the ratio rockers (i'm sure you will...)