I feel like running lean is a good way to blow up stuff. Also I am not sure if the 2300 has injectors I can upgrade. I'll look into it b/c I am sure that'd be much cheaper.
All Small Six To Build a 200 or 250?
- Thread starter StarDiero75
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
I do not buy it. Too large of tubes and excessive piping would be bad. If that was a thing, what about the rear mount turbos, I do not like them. Short headers like they are selling now and short piping to the turbo would be better than a log under any circumstance, other than a crappie turbo setup is way faster than not one. That is my opinion, what do others say.
I have tried in the past to justify things that are not so good and, in the end, do what I find to be the best way.
I've been trying to understand the basics rear-mount turbo setups. My limited perception is that it's not the velocity of the exhaust but the instant expanding extremely hot exhaust from as close to combustion source/exh. ports as possible. Isn't there a huge loss of turbo efficiency due to the inverse square law?...
thanks
thanks
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Most factory turbos are in essence a log style. I do plan to cut off the flange since its the meatiest flange I've ever seen and probably mount the turbo in the front, minimizing 90s, but i do not have the skill to custom make equal length, individual runner exhaust manifold. I am not that talented with my harbor freight flux welder haha. However I'll try to do something similar like this. What do you think about this?
Attachments
You have stainless headers, right? can you see a way to merge them and pipe around to the drivers side?
But see thats the thing. I do have stainless headers but from what I've read, 304 stainless is a very poor material for turbos and will most definitely crack quickly. 321 stainless is the way to go but my broke ass is gonna deal with mild steel lol. Also having the long piping like that will induce a lot of lag. Has anyone else here used a NA header with a turbo and gotten away with it? I haven't been able to find an example but I'm not searching hard enough.
Another one I saw was the split cast iron header from aussie speed. It looks good, would breathe fairly well, and connecting the 2 together wouldn't be that difficult to plumb to the turbo. Still retain forward mounting position for ease of access.
FORD six 144 170 221 200 250 Dual outlet cast iron exhaust header AS0017-2V | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia
Ford early falcon, mustang and cortina twin outlet exhaust manifold.This model only fits engines fitted with a 2V Ford cylinder head, the AS0017-2V suits the 2V cylinder heads with removable intake manifolds only. Made in Australia by Aussiespeed,the cast iron exhaust header suits the 2V heads...
www.aussiespeedshop.com
Oh yes that particular picture would be a pain in the ass with the alternator and the battery, but I was thinking of something similar due to the ease of construction, plus the better breathing than the square stock tubing I got now.the front mounted turbo picture setup is clean and simple but be sure to manage space restrictions of your intended platform.
hav efun
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That would be a lot better than a log header. My thinking is you have the stainless header, and it is cheap, not a huge cost if it does not work out.
Stainless steel has better heat resistance than cast iron exhaust manifolds.
Aftermarket cast turbo manifolds are made from an alloy that has good high temperature characteristics.
The turbocharger is driven by forward pressure in front of the exhaust pressure pulse.
Any pack pressure behind the pulse decreases engine performance.
A good test to see if the manifold runners create scavenging in the other runners is to blow air into each runner and see if a vacuum is created in the other runners
Your log manifold doesn't have any runner length so there is no cylinder isolation, and each cylinder port sees maximum exhaust pressure from the other cylinders.
If the pressure from one cylinder is directed into the exhaust port of another cylinder, it will drive the intake charge back into the intake manifold when the intake valve opens.
I've had the plastic tips on the injectors melted from exhaust reversion into the intake manifold runners.
I would use your stainless shorties.
As long as the manifolds are not supporting the weight of the turbocharger, they will last.
Use a heat wrap or ceramic coat. The wrap or coating will reduce engine compartment heat as well as preserve a good turbo response.
Aftermarket cast turbo manifolds are made from an alloy that has good high temperature characteristics.
The turbocharger is driven by forward pressure in front of the exhaust pressure pulse.
Any pack pressure behind the pulse decreases engine performance.
A good test to see if the manifold runners create scavenging in the other runners is to blow air into each runner and see if a vacuum is created in the other runners
Your log manifold doesn't have any runner length so there is no cylinder isolation, and each cylinder port sees maximum exhaust pressure from the other cylinders.
If the pressure from one cylinder is directed into the exhaust port of another cylinder, it will drive the intake charge back into the intake manifold when the intake valve opens.
I've had the plastic tips on the injectors melted from exhaust reversion into the intake manifold runners.
I would use your stainless shorties.
As long as the manifolds are not supporting the weight of the turbocharger, they will last.
Use a heat wrap or ceramic coat. The wrap or coating will reduce engine compartment heat as well as preserve a good turbo response.
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So after some more digging and research, i will try to use my NA headers. Like you all said, worst case they crack and I get new ones. I haven't had time yet to start checking out compressor maps. Its been a long week so far.
On another note, Modern Driveline got back to me and told me my kevlar/organic clutch is only good to 325hp. He recommended I go with a 250 or a big bell 200 to utilize the 10.4" clutch. I'd rather roll with a big bell 200. Does anyone have a hook up on one of those? B/c I have only ever seen 2 for sale in 6 years, and I keep my eye out. Also I am aware the 200 will require a custom drilled flywheel b/c the 289/302/250 have a different flywheel bolt pattern. I asked MD if they could also hook me up with that.
Thanks,
Ryan
On another note, Modern Driveline got back to me and told me my kevlar/organic clutch is only good to 325hp. He recommended I go with a 250 or a big bell 200 to utilize the 10.4" clutch. I'd rather roll with a big bell 200. Does anyone have a hook up on one of those? B/c I have only ever seen 2 for sale in 6 years, and I keep my eye out. Also I am aware the 200 will require a custom drilled flywheel b/c the 289/302/250 have a different flywheel bolt pattern. I asked MD if they could also hook me up with that.
Thanks,
Ryan
Jmustang_65
Well-known member
I see 5 blocks in the Washington area. You will need to check them out and need an E1BB casting. Go to http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi and search for 1981 ford fairmont engine. I see rebuilt one in Spokane for $504.
Modern Driveline sells a billet flywheel for the Big Bell 200. Pricey, but worth it.
Ford 200ci Billet Steel Flywheel 2.75" pttn/ 157 tooth/ 0 bal
Ford 200ci Billet Steel Flywheel 2.75" pttn/ 157 tooth/ 0 bal fits 10.4″ & 10″ long– Alignment pins for 10.4" clutch pattern already installed.
www.moderndriveline.com
Holy smokes! Yes they do. i didn't even check. For a custom flywheel I'd say thats not terrible considering the regular one is like $300Modern Driveline sells a billet flywheel for the Big Bell 200. Pricey, but worth it.
Ford 200ci Billet Steel Flywheel 2.75" pttn/ 157 tooth/ 0 bal
Ford 200ci Billet Steel Flywheel 2.75" pttn/ 157 tooth/ 0 bal fits 10.4″ & 10″ long– Alignment pins for 10.4" clutch pattern already installed.
Step 2 of building a badass 200: complete. It'll need a new timing cover b/c its got some damage. Otherwise it seems great. Interesting thing, I'll need to use a hydraulic clutch since there's no spot for a Z bar. So this guy got this off of an industrial setup (i think he said air compressor). Is it possible despite the casting code saying Fairmont that it was an industrial motor? That means foged internals like the 300, right?
Next step is what? Pick the turbo, or start figuring out internals? At this point I have the block, head, and headers.
Next step is what? Pick the turbo, or start figuring out internals? At this point I have the block, head, and headers.
I am 99.99999999 sure that there is no forged crank. Let us know what you find inside, but I think that it is just a stock car engine.
Is there a thought to use an automatic over drive trans instead of the 5 speed, it would be nice to not loose boost and fight shifts with a powerful engine, but what fun would that be. I used a clutch less trans that is thought to use 50 HP over a T5 just for that reason...Not sure if the trans that fits would handle the torque, someone would know, I know that the BB uses a large 164 tooth flex plate.
That said, you have a Z bar now all you need is to shorten the tube and fab up a sturdy mount, it cannot be that hard, I will look at a bb to see. May need to plan out the hot side piping to plan everything.
Is there a thought to use an automatic over drive trans instead of the 5 speed, it would be nice to not loose boost and fight shifts with a powerful engine, but what fun would that be. I used a clutch less trans that is thought to use 50 HP over a T5 just for that reason...Not sure if the trans that fits would handle the torque, someone would know, I know that the BB uses a large 164 tooth flex plate.
That said, you have a Z bar now all you need is to shorten the tube and fab up a sturdy mount, it cannot be that hard, I will look at a bb to see. May need to plan out the hot side piping to plan everything.
The next step is to get the short block apart and have the machine shop clean and figure out how much the cylinders need to be bored to clean them up.
This will tell you what size piston you will need.
Have the block deck surface machined just enough to clean the surface for good head gasket sealing.
Then have the block deck height measured so you will know what the piston CH needs to be.
Have the crankshaft checked for cracks.
At the same time start on the cylinder head.
The finished cylinder heads combustion chamber volume will determine the piston dish volume to get the correct compression ratio.
You will need to decide on a camshaft which will determine what valve spring to install on the head.
Here is the last turbo cam Schneider ground for a 200 six.
It will have a power band right about where you need to be.
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I do know there is no forged
I really like having the stick so I'd really prefer not to ditch it. But i don't think an AOD will hold 470hp, will it? Sticks are more fun to drive but you are right about the auto being faster. I'll put out a poll on it. My plan was to rock the T5 till it blows up, then put in a TKO or 6spd.
I already wanted to do a hydraulic clutch b/c i want to hopefully reduce how hard my clutch is. I could fab a bracket, but we'll see.
So my plan with the headers is to Y them together, do a 180 bend above the pipes, then mount to the turbo, hopefully placing it above and to the left of the alternator. That'll make me have to move my battery to the smugglers hatch in the trunk. Or, run the pipes under and mount the turbo kinda below to the left of the alternator and keep it stealthy. That would make the intercooler plumbing easier.
I do know there is no forged crank. I was referring to the rods, and MAYBE pistons. But mainly rods. Doesn't really matter though since I'm going with 1JZ rods.
I really like having the stick so I'd really prefer not to ditch it. But i don't think an AOD will hold 470hp, will it? Sticks are more fun to drive but you are right about the auto being faster. I'll put out a poll on it. My plan was to rock the T5 till it blows up, then put in a TKO or 6spd.
I already wanted to do a hydraulic clutch b/c i want to hopefully reduce how hard my clutch is. I could fab a bracket, but we'll see.
So my plan with the headers is to Y them together, do a 180 bend above the pipes, then mount to the turbo, hopefully placing it above and to the left of the alternator. That'll make me have to move my battery to the smugglers hatch in the trunk. Or, run the pipes under and mount the turbo kinda below to the left of the alternator and keep it stealthy. That would make the intercooler plumbing easier.