Aussie SOHC head to US 6 cyl block question

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this site and haven't quite learned my way around yet so I hope this isn't a repeat question. Does anybody know if the aussie SOHC head setup will work on a US 6 cyl block without too much modification if any. If it will, what parts are required for this swap and what US 6 cyls will it fit on. Also, are there any other head setups like the crossflow stuff I've seen a lot of talk about that are better than the regular SOHC head and that are readily available in AUS like maybe a DOHC setup. I have a friend over there that can get me this stuff easy, as long as it's not too rare, so now I'm kinda interested in it. This is all new to me so please forgive me if I'm asking any stupid questions. Thanks Allen.

 

[aussie7mains]

Forget about fitting the OHC head to the earlier blocks, whilst it could be done with a LOT of effort its just wouldnt worth the effort.
The crossflow head is in a similar possition, however one person on the site has managed to fit one to an early 200 yank six, why I dont kow!
There is an DOHC six available now and it has its own cylinder block again and wouldnt be worth the effort trying to fit to any of the earlier blocks.
The position is simple, decide which enegine you want and get it in whole, dont try swapping heads.
We have down here:-
Precrossflow , much like all yank sixes, nowdays considered very ordinary.
Crossflow, a better poposition but still pushrods
OHC better than either of earlier sixes only EFI
DOHC better again with VVT and EFI 4 valves.
A7M

 

[Anonymous]

The problem is it cost too much to ship a whole engine to the US due to the size and weight. Just the head and accessories isn't that much. That's why I wanted to know about swapping the head onto a US block that we already have here. I didn't know if the blocks were pretty much the same or if the blocks in AU that came with the SOHC head are unique to those engines making it pretty much impossible to fit the SOHC setup onto a US block. When looking at this for the unique factor only, the shipping cost to get a whole motor to the US makes it not worth it. I could probably get the head and required accessories shipped to my door for about $400 USD or less and can be shipped UPS. It would cost at least that much to get a whole motor from california to alabama once it got here much less all the way across the pond and cannot be shipped UPS. That makes it more than I am willing to pay to have this in the US.

 

[addo]

To be slightly blunt - if that's the working budget, it's not feasible because there will be more invested in customising the parts to "blend" successfully.

About six months back, I sent a bunch of stuff to one fellow. A complete motor, several bellhousings, a few oddments and it came to about USD$725 in freight and crating once it reached the bed of his truck in MD. There was surplus room (compared to minimum usage allocation of a cubic yard) and nobody was interested in sharing.

So - collaboration with another automotive minded person will sometimes be a way to get freight costs halved. You can pick up stuff like 302C closed chamber heads and 302C-2V spreadbore manifolds cheap here; I see people selling them in the US after importing - and they do fetch more than six cylinder parts.

Another means to save on freight is to approach one of the regular Oz-US importers with a specific order. For security reasons, most such would prefer to source a motor themselves but you might find someone who will ship your own purchase.

Getting back to tech aspects of transplanting heads - bore centres remained the same but block widths varied and I think overall length might have stretched with the OHC. Also the overhead cam motors seem to have been all injected (including some early TBI versions) so retroconversion to a carby requires some modifications - otherwise there are also the computer costs.

While the upcoming repro 2V head has its adherents, it will be rather more than $400 also. With that working budget, a cam, timing set and twin carbs could be the proven means to more power.

Regards, Adam.

 

[OzHemi]

I am an importer/exporter by trade actually. I mainly send from here in LA to Melbourne, then also do abit back this way.. sent 2 containers over here already this year, and probably do one more late in the year (conversly, I send about 15 - 18 to Melbourne a year)

I brought a few of the engines over myself (along with 4 vehicles, lots of other spares,etc) but be happy to help you out on shipping as well if you like.

I have a few of the engines in the classifieds section too if you wanted something straight away, but if you already have some bought in Oz, I can bring them over, no worries.. just would have to get them to Melbourne when it was container time again.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies guys but nobody has answered my question yet. Will this stuff from AU fit on an american block or not. If it will, how much modification is required to get it to bolt up or is there any required at all. I do not want to get a whole motor unless it was very cheap like $500-$600 USD all the way to my door. From what my buddy in AU has told me it cost to ship two 302C heads over here, there's no way I could get a motor for that because the heads can be shipped UPS to my door but a motor will have to come from California by freight truck to me and that alone will cost $400 USD plus shipping from AU which will cost more than sending me two 302C heads will. This will make the total cost more than I am willing to put into this. So can somebody tell me, yes or no, will this stuff bolt onto an american block and work or can it be done at all without major fabrication. Some light fab work is not a problem but I don't want to get into rebuilding a whole new timing cover or something like that because the AU piece doesn't come close to fitting. Thanks Allen

 

[addo]

I tried to answer the question.

...bore centres remained the same but block widths varied and I think overall length might have stretched with the OHC...

Head bolt pattern/position remained the same through the crossflows, but I have never owned an OHC or had a gasket to compare.

The first problem with putting a crossflow head onto a non-crosssflow motor is that the block needs widening. Yep, you read that right. A plate must be rebated into the lifter side of the block, then surface ground flush with the deck. This provides oil sealing and return ability. Welding this plate on creates areas of metal on the deck with dissimilar traits and the surfacing tool may chatter. I can't remember if Jack revealed the final way around this issue.

When it comes to fitting an OHC head onto a pre-crossflow block you'll have to hope someone can post pictures of two gaskets overlaid. I don't want to speculate on that, and head gaskets are $35 each so I've never bought one out of curiosity.

One final note on pedantry:

This is what we refer to as an "AU". It is a specific series of Falcons made from about '97 through 2002.



There's a risk if you refer to "AU parts" that people will take it you're referring to this particular model. In fact, your potential donors are from the early '90s through to present - depending on how the investigations go!

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok Adam now we're getting closer to the answer I'm looking for. Let me rephrase the question. Does anybody know for sure if there is ANY australian OHC head setup, that is readily available in australia (readily available meaning available at pretty much any salvage yard in australia), that will directly bolt onto ANY US inline 6 ford motor (they are all readily available here). If the answer is yes, is there any modification required and if so, what is it.

A simple yes or no is what I'm looking for with an explaination of required modifications if any and only if the answer is yes.

The guy that's going to get me this stuff if it can be done easily is in Bundaburg, Queensland if that matters about parts availability.

 

[Anonymous]

To be slightly blunt - if that's the working budget, it's not feasible because there will be more invested in customising the parts to "blend" successfully.

It's not necessarily about a "budget" so to speak. The money to pay for this is not a problem but I only want to spend about that amount on it. If it can be done easily at all and I can get what I need for the amount I want to spend, fine I'll do it. If it cannot be done at all or will require major fabrication, then that's fine too. I only wanted this for the unique factor in the US and nothing else.

About six months back, I sent a bunch of stuff to one fellow. A complete motor, several bellhousings, a few oddments and it came to about USD$725 in freight and crating once it reached the bed of his truck in MD. There was surplus room (compared to minimum usage allocation of a cubic yard) and nobody was interested in sharing.

Here's another problem with getting a whole motor from australia. Will it bolt up our transmissions here. We know the US blocks will so that's another reason I wanted to stay with as many american parts as possible.

Also the overhead cam motors seem to have been all injected (including some early TBI versions) so retroconversion to a carby requires some modifications - otherwise there are also the computer costs.

We would make a carb manifold to use with this setup if this ever happens.

While the upcoming repro 2V head has its adherents, it will be rather more than $400 also. With that working budget, a cam, timing set and twin carbs could be the proven means to more power.

Not necessarily looking for more power than the older pushrod sixes already here have. Just looking for something that pretty much nobody in the US has ever seen before.

 

[Greywolf]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say "no".

The reason being, you want a bolt-on. The drive chain for an OHC is going to be different from that of the crossflow or US engine. Even if you have the head, you will need the chain drive gear, and cover.

Even if the head manages to bolt to the block, and even if the crank sprocket is the same, and the timing chain cover fits, and the crank snout is the same diameter, and .... you get the picture. A lot of parts have to swap, and be included from Australia.

The better bet, at least initially, is to get the whole engine and find someone to share shipping. I will be in the market this winter (looking at a complete engine and transmission and definitely interested in sharing shipping costs).

If you want only a head, I would suggest following Jack's instructions on the tech pages for using a crossflow head. This will bolt on far more easily, especially if you use a standalone system for injection/ignition.

Ben

 

[wagon]

I don't want to stir the pot too much but I seem to remember a bloke called krogdahl (or something) in North Queensland (Australia) that makes DOHC 12valve heads that fit pushrod falcons and such. That maybe worth looking into!

Kendall.

 

[Greywolf]

Nifty stuff, but IIRC it was over $5000 for such a head...which means the whole OHC engine is cheaper, shipped.

Then again, on the "rare-o-meter", you can be pretty sure almost no one in the US or Australia will have seen one.

Ben

 

[addo]

OHC cranks can be put into a crossflow or precrossflow - that suggests the front sprocket is similarly located and length overall identical or close. It's done to get 12-counterweight cranks happening.

That said, if you were game to manufacture or hybrid a timing cover it could be doable. Water pump would need a reverse impeller if you didn't go serpentine belt.

 

[Anonymous]

The reason being, you want a bolt-on.

Preferably but doesn't have to be a direct bolt-on. As long as minor modification is all that's required, I'm fine with that.

The drive chain for an OHC is going to be different from that of the crossflow or US engine.

I'm not for sure but aren't all crossflow engines OHC. There's a pic of one on this site that is an OHC crossflow. US engines do not have a drive chain. They are direct gear to gear.

Even if you have the head, you will need the chain drive gear, and cover.

Yes I know this.

Even if the head manages to bolt to the block, and even if the crank sprocket is the same, and the timing chain cover fits, and the crank snout is the same diameter, and .... you get the picture. A lot of parts have to swap, and be included from Australia.

Crank gear on a US engine will not work. What I wanted to know is will the head and related parts (timing cover etc.) bolt on to a US block without major modification. I understand there will be parts required other than just the head.

The better bet, at least initially, is to get the whole engine and find someone to share shipping. I will be in the market this winter (looking at a complete engine and transmission and definitely interested in sharing shipping costs).

Even if I share the shipping with somebody, there's no way I can get a whole motor to my door for the amount I can get the head and related parts for which is the price range I'm looking to stay around. Even if I could get a whole motor for that, will the US trans bolt up to the aussie block. If it won't, there's another problem I'm not willing to deal with.

If you want only a head, I would suggest following Jack's instructions on the tech pages for using a crossflow head. This will bolt on far more easily, especially if you use a standalone system for injection/ignition.

Yes, I would like to get an OHC setup sent to me from AUS and put in on one of the US blocks. This is the easiest and cheapest way for me to have this setup driving around in the US.

 

[addo]

Bellhousings have a unique bolt pattern for the Southern Hemisphere. It's almost SBF but not quite. There are less variations than US bellhousings had for the 200s, but some versions are dearer than others.

 

[Anonymous]

Bellhousings have a unique bolt pattern for the Southern Hemisphere. It's almost SBF but not quite. There are less variations than US bellhousings had for the 200s, but some versions are dearer than others.

If this is true, getting a whole motor is out of the question. It's not an option if a US trans will not fit it.

 

[Greywolf]

The crossflow engine is a pushrod engine. It is a direct relative of the original "US" 250 engine. The head is slightly wider to allow the pushrods to clear, as the valvetrain has been changed significantly.

The OHC design is a redesign of the Aussie XFlow and as such has many differences, making it even more different from the US engines.

Last I checked, the 200 and 250 engines used timing chains, not direct gear drives, but as I haven't pulled the timing cover off my US 200 or 250 XFlow in several years, it's possible I am not correct.

Jack (MustangSix) did a very good couple of tech articles covering the original XFlow conversion and 200 with XFlow head which he has done:

XFlow 250 compared to US 250:
http://fordsix.com/tech/engine/crossflow/xflow.php

XFlow 250 head fit to US 200:
http://fordsix.com/tech/engine/crossflow/crossflow.php

History of the Australian Ford inline 6:
http://fordsix.com/tech/misc/aussie_sixes.php

If you use the XFlow head instead of the OHC head, it seems to be a fairly straightforward conversion. I would suggest a distributorless ignition system to bypass Jack's problems fitting a distributor under the intake manifold.

Ben

 

[Anonymous]

Last I checked, the 200 and 250 engines used timing chains, not direct gear drives, but as I haven't pulled the timing cover off my US 200 or 250 XFlow in several years, it's possible I am not correct.

You are correct. I'm thinking about the 300 I6.

If you use the XFlow head instead of the OHC head, it seems to be a fairly straightforward conversion. I would suggest a distributorless ignition system to bypass Jack's problems fitting a distributor under the intake manifold.

I don't want a crossflow head. I want an OHC head setup with a carb. I will make or adapt an intake for the carb. OzHemi has a picture of a OHC crossflow complete engine and trans for sale in the classifieds that appears to have a dist under the intake but I can't tell for sure. You can tell all the plug wires go to the same place under the intake like to a dist.

 

[2nd.gunman]

I have looked into this a little and can tell you whilst a OHC head will physically bolt on to a US 200 block it will require a lot of custom parts.

The block will need to be widened and the water and oil galleries modified to suit as the OHC head is slightly different

The OHC timing cover will not work with the US block and water pump will interfer with timing chain.

The block will require machining to accomodate the OHC timing idler pulley/shaft required to drive the distributor and oil pump.

The difference in deckheight will require a custom distributor to clear the intake(assuming the use of a carb and TBI intake)

There may be other problems but i have both a early US200 and a '95 OHC XR6 motor for comparison and have compared a set of head gasket previously?

Hope it helps

 

[xctasy]

In the 50's, Aussie backyarders, with no readily available SOHC or DOHC castings, got busy and made there own Twin cam engines using local pushrod I-6 blocks. Krogdahl was just working out a pre-existing idea!

The only issues asside the head castings was making the front cover work.

One partical version had a steel plate on the top of the block, a set of sleaves, and gots some extra capacity out of the engine.


With the 200 engine, it is second only to the prewar MG's, the Triumph 2500 and Nissan Skyline sixes for shallow block depth...it is very shallow, very, very light in the block, and 150 pounds lighter than any of the deep, wide and heavily gusseted EA-AU-BF blocks. With a simple 250 thou deep plate, and some time, you can make the DOHC or SOHC heads fit with ease, You can deal with the water passages by dry decking the block, and using expoxy moter. You can run the distributorless ignition found on EF, AU/BA/BF Falcons, and run any kind of intake manifold you car to.

In my humble opinion, the US/early Aussie 200 block is head and shoulders above the OHC block because its light, and with a little work, it will take the OHC or DOHC Ford head. And offcourse, the DOHC runs a simplex chain, not duplex, and this is even easier to fit up to the earlier 200 engines.

Everyone forgets that the most successfull four cylinder Holby and Raymond Mays Twin Cams were just based on a silly old 957 Anglia/ 1500 Cortina blocks. Racers got 126 hp out of them from just 1558 ccs, and little Lotus Elans and Lotus Cortinas and Twin Cam Escorts did 16 second quarter miles. Lotus Sevensand Europa Sprints did high 14 second quarter miles with these.

As Monte Carlo and other rally competition got hotter, the 4 valve per cylinder BDA twin cam heads were made, using the ohv 1600 and 1800 Ford Escort blocks. Soon, little four cylinder escorts were reving to 10500 rpm, and giving 245 hp from furnace brazed 1600 blocks bored out to 2000 cc's. This great twin cam head eventually found on the Cosworth V8 DFX engine, as both the Ford BDA and V8 were based on the same little block that came out in 1959 Anglias.


Here's how Aussies did it.

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix00.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix01.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix02.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix03.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix04.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix05.jpg

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v223/xecute/hotsix06.jpg