Blowing 3 Gees on my Six

Did you happen to take a picture with it still as an assembly? Was it oiling good on all the valves and rockers? Was this valve stuck once or maybe it still is (it looks like the spring is compressed in picture valve would be off the seat too) and or running loose on that one? Also as you said maybe a bent valve! You could push it or if you want to take apart use an old socket on the retainer wack it once or twice with a big hamer and the keepers will fly out than pull valve out and spin in a drill to see if it's bent.


The gash may not be a problem as long as the arms rubbing surface is still flat they can be reground some too if you have the right equipment. Put a straight edge on it to see. If it’s not I would buy a new one or find a good used one at engine rebuild shop or junkyard.
 
I should have taken a picture of the full assembly before I un-bolted it but I wasn't thinking. I also didn't check the oiling but it's pretty sludgy in there so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dry spot. I think what probably happened is when I originally installed my DUI, I had the direction of advance and retard backwards (read the wrong website), and while trying to adjust my timing I think I got some real bad pinging and it was after that the valve clicking noise started.

I'll go back out and look tomorrow but I don't think this valve is stuck, the exhaust valves on this head look different from the intakes and at first they look like the spring is compressed but it's just a different retaining assembly.

However, it doesn't really matter if that valve is toast or even the whole head, I have the new head with new valves ready to go on. I'm more worried about whether the gash in the rocker arm will rough up my new valve which would later then rough up my new roller rockers when those arrive. But I took a straight edge to it and it's actually pretty flat so maybe it would be ok.

My plan for the moment is to swap the head but leave the old rockers off. I can tow it into the shop and have them finish up the exhaust. That should burn through a good week or three. By then I can hopefully find a replacement arm or maybe if I'm really lucky the CI rockers will have shown up. On the other hand they could still be a long time off.

Luke
 
If rocker is still flat the grove or gash direction is not going to hurt it will just give a little path for a bit more oil to valve tip. :nod: Clean them up good (even polish the rubbing surface some) and run them even if you don't get the rockers for awhile takes a long time to wear the valve tips unless the arms are worn bad. :unsure:
 
You can push/slide the rocker arm sideways against the spring and check the shaft for wear.
That retainer looks broken but I doubt the valve would be at fault. Perhaps the rocker arm shifted sideways at high rpms and hit it. Or more likely, broken during dis- or reassembly.
 
Thanks guys for the input. I know so little I'm always afraid I'm going to screw something up irrevocably, but I feel a lot better about this hearing your comments. It makes sense the gash shouldn't hurt the new valve. Also, the metals seems to be awfully strong/hard - even the old valve tip still looks pretty good, it's the retainer that got worn away.

When I get the old head off I'll take out the valve and see if in fact it's bent. It would be interesting to know what happened even if it doesn't matter now. I checked the rocker shaft and to my eyes I see no undue wear. I'll take it apart to clean it up before re-installing it, and look closer then.

I'll keep you posted. Was going to do the swap tomorrow but I just found Rock Auto had a Victor head gasket in stock, only one left! They said it was a closeout. I snatched it up tonight, I'll wait till it comes in to do the swap. According to the Falcon Six handbook it should compress slightly thinner than the FelPro I was going to use, and it might just give me a teensy bit more compression.

Luke
 
Stephen, thanks for that link, was a great refresher.

I got the old head off yesterday, was able to do it single-handedly but only just. I don't think it would be prudent to put the new head on by myself, but my neighbor will help me with it. In the meantime I also realized I had the wrong ARP head studs so now I'm also waiting for those before the new head goes on.

Here's a photo of the block/pistons. There's some gunk on the piston heads but I don't suppose I can clean any of that without removing them. Probably helps my C/R anyway. :mrgreen:

Anything I should think of doing while I have the head off and before the new one goes on? I thought of CCing the dishes but given the car is parked on an incline this didn't seem very practical. One thing I am going to do is hunt for a 7/16" bottoming tap and clean out the head mounting threads.

Bubba, I got the valve with the worn retainer off using your mallet trick. I spun the valve up in my drill press, seems straight as an arrow. I think Jack Fish is right, it really looks like the rocker arm must have gotten off to the side at one point and rubbed the arm face along the edge of the valve stem.

My job for today is to dis-assemble the rocker arm assembly and clean it all out... the rocker mounting bolts are also pretty crudded up and and definitely need a wire brush job.

Luke



 
Here's a photo of the block/pistons. There's some gunk on the piston heads but I don't suppose I can clean any of that without removing them. Probably helps my C/R anyway.

Yeah you're right will give you a tad more C/R and sure won't hurt a thing to leave them that way. (y) If you really want to clean them can be done with them installed turn engine so pistion is at TDC and use a putty knife to scrape them clean plug holes in block and just blow the dust out with some air.
 
Just a quick question - we're putting on the new head tomorrow, I'm wondering about the mating surfaces, and if there is anything I should do to either one. For example, right now both the top of the block and the bottom of the head have a thin coat of oil on them, which was applied with my finger to keep them from rusting during all this waiting, especially the new head as it's been sitting in my living room for several months. Is this film of oil OK, or will it interfere with the proper sealing of the head gasket? Should I clean both surfaces off with mineral spirits to get the metal completely clean and oil free, or does it matter?


Luke
 
Thanks FSD for that advice. It's what makes the most sense. I did as you suggested and cleaned both surfaces spick and span. I also got a 7/16" bottoming tap from NAPA (not a lot of places carry this I found) and I chased all the threads in the block several times and blew them out with air. I got those suckers so clean I could spin a bolt down to the bottom with my fingers using no effort.

For a head gasket I used a Victor 3910VC. Studs are ARP from Mike. My neighbor helped me put the head on and having an extra set of hands really was nice. I've followed the torque recommendations and the new head is now officially on.

Now begins more work... immediately I began trial fitting parts and realized I have tons of labor ahead of me. For example, the hood won't close with my new carb/air cleaner combo. I spent a few hours this evening grinding down my nice carb spacer (described earlier) as well as my air cleaner nut, and I've gotten rid of nearly a quarter inch of material. This quarter inch of material was turned into extremely fine aluminum dust of which I breathed voluminous quantities, and I've been sneezing silver stuff all night. Tomorrow I will see if the quarter inch made enough difference.

Throttle linkage will be a Lokar kit but the Lokar bracket doesn't look like it's going to work and I'm probably going to have to fab something up. Stock kickdown on my C4 was a solid bar that definitely won't work, I'll be using a Lokar kit for that too, but that is going to involve even more insanity I can already tell. I may see if I can do without kickdown for a while.

I'll need a new fuel line arrangement, I ordered a tubing bender so we'll see how that goes. I guess I can also use it to bend me a choke tube, yet another thing that will need to be made up and attached somehow to the headers.

Well, at least now I can get going! It's a bit daunting for someone so inexperienced but I know it will all work out eventually, the only unknown is how many swear words will be uttered between now and then. :eek:


Luke
 
One of the things I thought I'd do, since I'm using oversize valves with my stock rockers (for now), is check valve lash. My stock rockers are non-adjustable and my lifters are hydraulic. Both my Haynes and Chilton manuals refer to a hydraulic lifter compressor tool, that is used to push down the lifter so a feeler gauge can be inserted between the rocker tip and the valve stem.

I've done a pretty comprehensive search on the internet and for the life of me I can't find either the tool they mention (Ford 6513-K) nor any other generic tool that looks like it. I see lots of tools for lifter removal, but that's not what I need. I'm wondering if there's just some trick a guy can do with hand tools? All I need is to get the lifter compressed.

Luke
 
http://www.toolsource.com/ford-tappet-b ... 91800.html
91800.jpg

Says it's for v8s, will it work on the I6 too?
I think I have one of these tools. :eek:
 
Yikes - it only costs $130 bucks... but now I know to search for "tappet bleeder" maybe I'll find something.

Luke
 
Now I think about it, I'm wondering if I need to even bother. My rockers aren't adjustable, and neither are the pushrods. There's only one way it can go on. I'll probably just bolt it on and let 'er rip.


Luke
 
Well the head swap is complete. Took a long time to get everything hooked back up, as I was also cleaning up some wiring which took forever. But what really took forever was coming up with a throttle linkage arrangement, as there is very little room between this huge carb and the valve cover. I spent about a week on that job, you can see the photos below. It was made from eight pieces of aluminum angle/channel and some hardware. All the cutting and polishing was done by hand and this literally took an eternity. On the right hand side you can see the throttle cable; to the left (the only place I could think of putting it) will go the transmission kickdown cable, but it's not hooked up in the photos yet.

After getting everything put back together I fired her up to see what would happen. Keep in mind I still had the stock exhaust and the stock rockers.

A) My half-ass job on the stock exhaust manifold meant there were leaks, which began to melt paint, and cause a horrible stench.
B) Stock rockers seemed to do fine for the first ten minutes or so, which I was glad for, since as mentioned I didn't do any valve lash checking. However after a few minutes of driving they started to make an increasing amount of god-awful noise.
C) Transmission would shift from 1st to 2nd, but not from 2nd to 3rd. Not sure if this was something to do with not having the kickdown hooked up, or maybe a vacuum leak somewhere.
D) No hot air choke tube hooked up to the carb meant the car kept wanting to take away from me. Combined with the fact my throttle return springs weren't adjusted tight enough, and the throttle wouldn't return to idle, I had a real beast on my hands for my few passes around the block.
E) Also found a fuel leak dripping right onto the exhaust...

The good news was my head didn't explode, the head gasket seemed fine, and none of the cooling hoses were leaking coolant, which in the past has been the bane of my existence. (Note to self though - Spectre steel hose braiding isn't worth it).

So anyway I have a good list of things to take care of. I've been working on her every day for the last two weeks and was getting pretty burnt out though, so I decided to take a break. Yesterday I stripped out the entire exhaust from engine to tailpipe, and this morning I towed her into the shop to have the headers installed. Once those are done that should allow me to install my choke stove, allowing the engine to actually idle. Also I'll know what kind of room I have to deal with to install my transmission kickdown cable, which will be running on the exhaust side. In the meantime I also took off the carb and I'm going to be fiddling with my linkages. I didn't really explore what was causing the valvetrain noise, I'm going to think about that later when I've gotten rested up.

I test fit the headers myself yesterday and I think they'll go on ok. It looked to me they would actually clear the starter, but they do hit some of the AC tubing (thankfully not the AC compressor). Transmission oil cooler lines are also in the way and will have to be re-routed as well. It's nice to have someone else do a bit of work on this for a change, though I'll probably feel different when I see the bill...

Anyway, that's where we stand. Now to find a place to dump this rusty old exhaust cluttering up my living room.


Luke




Massively complicated and convoluted throttle linkage.


If I ever have to polish a piece of aluminum by hand again I will need some whiskey first.
 
Stupid question here, but I "only" ask because I'll be dealing with a similar carb set-up soon...
Couldn't you flip the carb linkage bellcrank 180-degrees, and pull from the other side with the throttle cable?
Seems to me that might cure some of the complications, but you would need a longer cable, and have to re-route it.
Have you looked at it this way?
 
Phantom, not a dumb question at all. You very well could do it the way you suggest. I don't know what carb you'll be using but on this 2100 there actually are mounting points on the bottom of the bellcrank already, you can kind of see them in the first photo. These bottom points are actually intended for the kickdown linkage - the idea being that the throttle cable pulls on the top of the crank from the driver's side, like I have it here, this then pulls the kickdown cable on the bottom of the crank, also on the driver's side. Would be great if it worked out this way, but with the valve cover there is nothing going to fit to the bottom of the crank on the driver's side. Even getting the throttle to the top of the crank I had to angle it in.

Anyway, you could use the attachments at the bottom of the crank for throttle and put it on the passenger side. It should work just as well, but you'll still have to put the kickdown on the passenger side too (it will be at the top of the crank), so that will be a lot of stuff over there. I'd sure like to see how others have done this.

I bought the Lokar kickdown kit for the C4 tranny but I'm almost positive it's going to be way too short. For one, the stock setup on the C4 is to have a bar pushing the kickdown lever. So in order for a cable to work, it has to pull, which means the cable has to come from the rear of the transmission and then loop back up towards the front. That's going to take quite a few extra inches, and add to that I have it on the passenger side while the tranny attachment is on the driver's... I may decide in the end to live without kickdown if the linkages get too ridiculous. I can always downshift manually. I think though that maybe the transmission kickdown lever might need to be held in a certain place with a spring or something though - I need to read more about how it works, but I suspect having that lever just free-dangling had something to do with why I was unable to get it to shift into 3rd.

Luke
 
I can always downshift manually. I think though that maybe the transmission kickdown lever might need to be held in a certain place with a spring or something though - I need to read more about how it works, but I suspect having that lever just free-dangling had something to do with why I was unable to get it to shift into 3rd.

True you can shift manually, take the rod off of the downshift lever so its weight (if its just free-dangling) so is not pushing it down. Pushing the lever down downshifts the trans to second or keeps it from upshifting until a much higher speed; it needs to be up for normal shifting. (y)
 
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