All Small Six Bored into the water jacket

[ActionYobbo]

Another setback. I finally got a 200 block with a stock bore very low miles. Had a “head gasket leak” and there was water in the oil so I pulled it down and the head gasket leak turned out to be a few pinholes in the sidewall of #6 inline with the freeze plug. Looks like a casting inclusion or mishap. So now I have another boat anchor for the pile. Unless I can get it sleeved if that’s not too costly. I have another block that’s +60 and we’ll worn that I measured wall thickness at .085 in that same area

Edit to attach a picture
Hole is a bit smaller than a match stick

 

[Bronctopia]

You didn't hear it from me, but....

An old timer fix for this is to run water glass (a sodium silicate solution) in the coolant.

As the coolant leaks through the hot cylinder walls, it will deposit as a solid above about 220F.

I think the trade product is named something pretentious like "Irontite ceramic engine coat" or something.

I think you need to run it with all glycol out of the system, and preferably a disposable radiator....

 

[ActionYobbo]

You didn't hear it from me, but....

An old timer fix for this is to run water glass (a sodium silicate solution) in the coolant.

As the coolant leaks through the hot cylinder walls, it will deposit as a solid above about 220F.

I think the trade product is named something pretentious like "Irontite ceramic engine coat" or something.

I think you need to run it with all glycol out of the system, and preferably a disposable radiator....

Yeah nah
I plan on running lots of boost that will blow that stuff out. I might just get the other block sleeved back to stock. Why stock well it’s simple I have a set of forged pistons that I intend to run.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

A lot of blocks are going this way due to age and poor maintenance. If you sleeve just one you may regret it as there are likely others very close to breaking through also

 

[ActionYobbo]

A lot of blocks are going this way due to age and poor maintenance. If you sleeve just one you may regret it as there are likely others very close to breaking through also

As far as I know this was a NOS block or short block. Here is the story. I am the 3rd owner of this motor. A guy got it/built it to put in his mustang but it kept blowing head gaskets. He sells the motor to the guy I get it from. He was going to put it in his maverick but a tree fell on it so he sells me the motor. The cylinders had been filled with atf and kero so there is no water damage inside the motor. Bores look good no lip. Cam and lifters look like they were just put in. It’s possible it was a reject block (has no vin on it) things done more miles on an engine stand than in a car. From build to me getting it is around 5 months

 

[drag-200stang]

I ran into this same problem on a 250 #1-cylinder wall with only .020'' bore. Of course, it was the last one to bore and I had done a lot of prep. to the block. That was the end of that project, de-stroked 250, I decided that I did not want a 200 that looked like a 250.

 

[Bronctopia]

Edit to attach a picture
Hole is a bit smaller than a match stick

Yeah, that's way bigger than your traditional "pin hole leak".

And the water glass fix is much more for getting that final 50k out of a stock use case engine.
Not good practice for hi-po and boost land.

 

[Josh63Falcon]

I hate to ask it, but with the scarcity of good cores, is it possible to put a more modern six in, obviously not the 300 b/c of length & weight (as I understand it), but maybe from another manufacturer?
My engine runs well enough for now, but with 126k miles on it, well, you know... I have yet to do a compression test, but it doesn't seem to burn much oil. Only been enjoying it for a month or so, so I don't know it well at all yet.
Please don't hate the question or the asker, I just want to know if it is possible, or even practical. (After all I have a '70 Scout with a AMC 232 in it, and many many Brit cars got American transplants)

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

Crossflow
SOHC
Barra


They are Australian. but all evolutions of the Ford 144-250 engines.

 

[427John]

You might try putting a borescope into water jackets and looking at the external surfaces of the cylinders, if it shows no corrosion and the block is indeed NOS as you suspect and shows no other evidence of casting flaws or core shift I would sleeve that hole. This is only if that flaw is an anomaly, if it shows pitting from corrosion or other evidence of flaws then you risk other cylinders developing this problem.

 

[DON]

I think sleeves are are a good idea. They take block back to as close to new as possible. Then you know you are good down the road, to say, 500,000 thousand miles. Past my time.
Does anyone have any experience in replacing an existing sleeve?

 

[Frank]

I think sleeves are are a good idea. They take block back to as close to new as possible. Then you know you are good down the road, to say, 500,000 thousand miles. Past my time.
Does anyone have any experience in replacing an existing sleeve?

Only in diesels, which are built sleeved from the start, so a much simpler process I imagine. Sleeves make an engine last infinitely long, they are very effective to restore an engine to new.

As far as I know this was a NOS block or short block. Here is the story. I am the 3rd owner of this motor. A guy got it/built it to put in his mustang but it kept blowing head gaskets. He sells the motor to the guy I get it from. He was going to put it in his maverick but a tree fell on it so he sells me the motor. The cylinders had been filled with atf and kero so there is no water damage inside the motor. Bores look good no lip. Cam and lifters look like they were just put in. It’s possible it was a reject block (has no vin on it) things done more miles on an engine stand than in a car. From build to me getting it is around 5 months

That's a real bummer, and a fairly rare snafu. If you've got a reputable machine shop with enough experience who is able to resleeve it, you'll have a new engine. May not be worth the cost though. If it was blowing head gaskets there may be more issues that are not yet revealed.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

I think sleeves are are a good idea. They take block back to as close to new as possible. Then you know you are good down the road, to say, 500,000 thousand miles. Past my time.
Does anyone have any experience in replacing an existing sleeve?

Yep happens all the time, you bore them out until they are so thin you pull them out by hand or with a pick, then go again.

I have a post about boring into the water jacket for drag blocks, I was going down the path of wet sleeves for a 3.980 or 4.00 bore but haven't had time to revisit it yet.

 

[DON]

Thanks! I didn’t know if there was any pulling them without boring

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

Thanks! I didn’t know if there was any pulling them without boring

Because they are a few thou interference fit and there isn't really anywhere to grab onto them its just easier to bore them out. 9/10 you are boring the block at that point anyway.

 

[427John]

The problem with completely sleeving a parent bore block is that the cylinder barrels in a non sleeve type block supports the deck surface, while sleeve type blocks have the structure to support the deck surface built into them. There have been blocks that have had the cylinders completely bored out of them and then had sleeves furnace brazed back into them, this restores the deck support but usually requires that every surface on the block has to be remachined to make them straight again. there have also been instances where some V8 blocks got 8 sleeved with thin wall sleeves boring just enough to install the thin wall sleeves to restore stock bore successfully but its usually not recommended. There are also the Darton type sleeves that have the necessary deck surface made onto the top of the sleeve, but AFAIK thats a pretty expensive operation.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

The problem with completely sleeving a parent bore block is that the cylinder barrels in a non sleeve type block supports the deck surface, while sleeve type blocks have the structure to support the deck surface built into them. There have been blocks that have had the cylinders completely bored out of them and then had sleeves furnace brazed back into them, this restores the deck support but usually requires that every surface on the block has to be remachined to make them straight again. there have also been instances where some V8 blocks got 8 sleeved with thin wall sleeves boring just enough to install the thin wall sleeves to restore stock bore successfully but its usually not recommended. There are also the Darton type sleeves that have the necessary deck surface made onto the top of the sleeve, but AFAIK thats a pretty expensive operation.

It is an expensive option to go down that path. The ones I have done so far have been fully grout filled with conventional dry liners.

I've cut up a few 250 blocks over the years and have done the measurements and calculations on a 250 block even after removing the original bores there will be enough material and rigidity for it to not to be a problem. That being said for a fully wet sleeve I would still grout fill the bottom few inches after the sleeves were installed and only go a 3.95ish bore to allow for some serviceability.

 

[427John]

Thats good info, cutting up some blocks is the only reliable way to get it, Ford FE V8 blocks aren't so lucky, while you may get away with it on smaller bore versions (4.13 and smaller) if done correctly, the large bore 427 blocks get so narrow between cylinders that they usually develop cracks in the deck between the sleeves.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

Thats good info, cutting up some blocks is the only reliable way to get it, Ford FE V8 blocks aren't so lucky, while you may get away with it on smaller bore versions (4.13 and smaller) if done correctly, the large bore 427 blocks get so narrow between cylinders that they usually develop cracks in the deck between the sleeves.

The last time I built an FE, I went through 3 blocks before I found one that was not junk, an expensive exercise in Australia as they were not common.