Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

[Stormin' Norman]

Nope! I'm not under a snow bank, other than a bunch of other immediate details I had to get done, to get back to this delicate project.

These are fabbed up from regular steel tube, identical in size and thickness to the 304L Stainless tube that the final header will be made of. I had to do it this way, to clear the stock York A/C compressor at Number 1, and allow about 3/4" cooling air space between the top and end of the starter. That space will also allow me to add a heat shield if I see that the air space isn't enough.

Number 1 and Number 6 parts will get a cap welded in and smoothed over that 'corner' cut. I cut it at a 45 degree angle at 1.5" from the inside corner, to maintain the correct diameter. The exhaust port itself is square on 1, 2, 5, and 6. while 3 and 4 are rectangular, so any exhaust 'congestion' will happen early in the gas exit to the mufflers. The stock manifold is much narrower inside, and every port is at 90 degrees, except 3 and 4. So I don't think it will have much impact on performance.

Feel free to correct me on that, but I'm not shooting for much more than 150 HP with the 3 Carter YF, YFA carbs and a better cam. I doubt I'll ever run it up to even 4,000 RPMs. Its a daily driver, with a bit more OOMPH!

I watched the video on http://www.stainlessheaders.com/index.aspx and saw how he fit the round pipe into a square flange. It will fit nicely.:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u234 ... _1_6_5.jpg

 

[Stormin' Norman]

Well I got a green light on my mitered header ports. The Header company CEO has been following my progress on the StationwagonForums site.

http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forum ... hp?t=29338

He donated the main parts to this project, out of his own pocket, and he's been guiding me through it. His handle is The Premier.

Hi Norm, actually that is pretty neat! If you are going to mitre some of your bends as you go, then cutting the tip off to clear your A/C like you have will cause next to no issues unless you were chasing every pooftenth of HP you could possibly make. I doubt that this small modification would even show up on an engine dyno on a stock engine either. But remember though, if you are still going to bend this part, the outside radius will also be shaped similar as there will be no tip similar to the mitred joint you have created that you will need to contend with. Also 3/4" is absolutely more than enough clearance from your compressor. In my experience, 10 mm or 3/8" is more than enough.

For a first timer, you are travelling ok! Cheers Mike.

I'm now gonna get into the Stainless tubes. Its still too cold to work bare-handed outside, in the mornings, because I have to finish welding the front end back together and get the engine in to finalize the header pipe locations down the side of the engine.

I'm pretty good with gas welding and brazing. I'm also ok with regular, old school arc welding. I'm fairly new to MIG welding, and could probably handle TIG welding, but I've never welded Stainless Steel, so I've been practicing and learning like a sponge. Mostly here: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

His YouTube channel is awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks

And some other sites describing the heat range limits for SS, so I'm gonna take it as far as I can myself. I'll probably use gas welding and MIG welding, with the right rods and 308 or 309 stainless wire.

I saw some really old school racer pictures a while back using steel conduit pipe for their lake headers, all mitered up, before Mandrel Benders made their way into the Header industry, and I figure with a Long Tube setup, that I'll overcome any small power losses.

I'll post my progress as it gets done.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

Started fabbing the Number 1 and 6 port stubs out of my 304L Stainless tubes. The wall thickness is actually 20% more than the initial trial steel tubing. Pretty pleased about that.

I also do some fair quality hardwood stuff, but I don't have room for a decent belt sander, so I made up a jig to hold my Makita belt sander and do some wooden edge strips. Turns out it can handle Stainless steel tubing facing perfectly too.

The parts are numbered by exhaust port, from the flange downward:

The exhaust manifold face on the head is at a 35 degree angle, so the horizontal parts have to get the downward 22.5* angle offset off the centerline of the mitered corner. I did take all the measurements, but I didn't use them. Instead, I eyeballed them using my cardboard tubing patterns and marking the correct location.

My bandsaw isn't useful for cutting the tubing, so I cleaned off my Bosch table saw underneath, and got all the sawdust out, then changed the saw blade for a 6" metal cutting disc. These blades wear out at about 6 tube cuts per 1/4", but they're cheap enough to buy, and replace.

I also have a miter saw, but its up on the top floor for cutting partition studs and there's too much wood and saw dust up there to control away from metal sparks. The table saw does a fine job on miters, since I tune it once a week when I'm into woodwork.

I thought about buying a metal chop saw, but they get awfully pricey, for cutting discs, and are overkill for these small tubes. The 2 HP motor handles it nicely. I'm using 3/32" thick cutting discs. I do have 1/8" discs when these wear down too low for the tube at about 5.75" diameter. I'll use these for flatter light gauge metal and aluminum. No cutting fluids, just slow and smooth.

I'll weld them up tomorrow, once I finish getting the engine bay dimensions with the engine in there.

I might get the Header done by next Monday. Once you start, you get a bit less timid about proper angles.

I'm starting to enjoy how its coming together.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

It was warm enough to drop the engine back in and proof out my ideas, as well as take some measurements. We've got freezing rain and snow today, and the rest of the week is down to -12C (15F) at night (meaning SLOW warmups in the daytime to -1C (30F).

I still need to set the collector location more firmly and nail down the starter positioning. I haven't relocated the bellhousing locator pins for the SROD yet, so I'll fake it with a block plate that I made before finding a steel plate last fall. The next post deals with EQUAL LENGTH tubes.

 

[CoupeBoy]

Looking good, but if you aren't going full out for every HP available, how important is having same length runners really going to be?
Did you have an automatic before? (wondering why you have to move the dowel pins)

 

[Stormin' Norman]

On V8s, V6s and V12s, everybody agrees that Equal Length is the only thing to do, but on I6s, its a different story. Now, I understand why it was suggested to make 18" to 24" tubes. They should be equal length on the farthest 3 ports and equal length on the closer ports, but don't have to be all the same length. Duh...

Here's Burn's Stainless tech article on it:
http://www.burnsstainless.com/v-12exhaustdesign.aspx

Here's Headers by Ed's comments on Equal Length tubes:
http://www.headersbyed.com/hc_buildbetter.htm

So for I6s, I could make them equal on 6 or by front 3 and rear 3 cylinders, but Ed makes a good point of the tuning issues, which would get complicated with a tri-power carb intake.

So, instead of reinventing the wheel, I'll go for equal length on all six, mainly by pushing the collectors further under the firewall, and closer to the transmission mount. I don't want all those curved bends shrinking the space for both AC and Heater coolant hoses.

With the flanges and collectors, my Aussie friend also posted some pics of a 3.3L dual exhaust header they made for a racer:

And I found this single exhaust 3.3L layout:

Since I'm installing new OE grade Moog coils, new Monroe shocks, and new Front LCA bushings, I figure the car will sit a bit higher, so if the 2-1 collector is below the floor, I'll have about the same ground clearance and it won't be that visible from the side of the car. I figure I'll be fine to run it there, instead of low, at the firewall.

If I compensated the difference in rear tube length and front 3 tube length, between the 3-in-1 collectors and final 2-in-1 collector, would that be detrimental to tuning?

 

[Stormin' Norman]

Looking good, but if you aren't going full out for every HP available, how important is having same length runners really going to be?
Did you have an automatic before? (wondering why you have to move the dowel pins)

Yeah, it was a C4 before. My wife grew up with a standard shifter, and has refused driving the car, since we bought it in Mexico in 1997! I prefer a stick shift anyway, so I took advantage of the situation and did a bit more 'tweaking' (tri-power, headers, new suspension, cam, etc. )

I'll be pulling a car dolly back from Mexico with another Fox wagon in tow, so more torque at highway speeds will be a must have.

 

[xctasy]

Mike W did the rework of the Fox headers for 80stang and some others here. I'm sure you've seen this montage of single and dual outs from him.







The thing is that the No 1 exhaust is restricted by the A/C unit.

That's your only real pinch point. The collectors are personal, based on if you have the low or high mount...Foxes can be awkward in that respect too.

Your changes in setting the collectors back look like you've almost got this one in the bag.....Mike made one type of the single out and another type dual out headers from that batch in 2003 or so.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

Thanks Dean. I got distracted on my Trac-Lok hunt for the DANA, and now that I've nailed it, I'll be on the Header, etc. I'm sure it'll come together just right.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

My quiet header pics follow. My dear friend and a member here - JackFish, came over to help me bleed the brakes. He did a full rebuild on his and added some oomph stuff in the build, machined head and block, cam, etc. to his 1978 Fairmont wagon. Snappy little beastie.

He couldn't believe how smooth and quiet it is. He said that none of his cars are like that.

Here's the pics. Some with comments:

The bronze rectangular thing at the bottom is a heater hose connection which also has a Temperature control valve above. there's over 3/4" of space to the AC compressor and 5/8" from the header:



I made this for the hot air duct between the air canister and header. Works like a charm. It was almost freezing when I started her up this morning, and the carb loved it.




In this one, I learned that a 25 degree angle from vertical would have given me more room away from the starter cable. I didn't know the stock starter for a 4 speed was longer until I bought it. :roll:




This pic shows my DIY subframes. They hide all the under-car Header Pipes and fittings. I bought these 3/8" flanges from NAPA. and the larger ones from a local speed shop, then I used SS bolts and hardware on both flanges.




Ugly welding, eh?! But it works.





I listened to about 20 Youtube videos for these 200 CID sixes with different qualities of headers, mostly steel. The SS headers from Hooker Headers were quieter, than the steel ones, but not by much.


We've got a lot of young people here with their rice-rockets and all the was melted out of their ears. That may explain why Q-Tips sales are down. Mine will let me hear my own thoughts.

xctasy complimented me on the Hot Air Pickup above, and that I shouldn't hide it or the fact that I made it work with a stock AC.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... y-AC/page2

The hot air pickup is from a restaurant steamer tray -- one of those food warmer service trays in a cafeteria line up. I'll take better pictures without the air breather today. The pressure from the flexible duct holds it in place as well as 2 'SS-hooks' that just tuck behind the intake manifold. Nothing rattles.

I used other strips of that tray to make my extended grille covers over the 4-eyed headlights:

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...t-Grille-Ideas

The paper covered flexible ducts don't bend as nicely as the type in the picture. I vaguely recall scooping them off a Mustang at a junkyard.

There's a lot of advantages to this layout, and one major disadvantage.

The disadvantage, for me anyway, is that I don't have a tube bender around here who specializes in header bending. There is one that does bending for stair rails, but I'll see him once I get the car rolling this week.

The advantages are that I can use all stock parts, in there factory locations under the hood. All my refinished and cleaned up parts can go right back in. My AC and heater hoses, cables, even my block heater cord. You warm weather guys wouldn't know about those.

And I noticed that the header, angled as it is, doesn't heat up the engine compartment anywhere near what the original exhaust manifold did. The engine seems to run cooler too.

I'm very happy with it.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

Here's some details these pics won't describe.

1) All the bolts, lock washers and any flat washers are stainless steel.
2) All the brazing was with Lincoln's SS rod. I never tried to use my cheap MIG welder to do this.
3) I used HVT grey paint on the header pipes and right back to the muffler.
4) All the angles were multiples of 7.5 degrees - 22.5 X 2 = 45. 3 X 7.5 = 22.5, etc. I based it on 22.5, because that's the angle of the exhaust port face to the block. I should have done a 25 degree angle instead to better clear the Starter. I should have bought the Starter for the 4-speed and used it for modelling. It is both longer, and fatter. With an Auto starter 22.5 would have worked fine. I'm a bit too tight there. Not enough to heat up the starter, so much as room to remove/install it.

Here's the pics:

 

[Stormin' Norman]

I've been driving it since April or so, and I gotta say that just the headers gives it a lot more torque. Its a stock motor, running regular gasoline. Idles nicely at 600 RPM, with 18 PSI of vacuum.

I'd like to get another set of those flanges, so I can get a local bender to make a better setup. My welding had held up nicely. I can drive in 3rd gear going up a fairly steep city overpass over the railway stockyard at under 30 MPH and still accelerate. Even the old 302 V8 needed more pedal. If these sixes reach peak torque at 1800 RPM (35 MPH), this baby moves along very nicely. Gas mileage is about 10% better too.

I think those flanges come from Australia or maybe Asia. My contact seems to have vanished. The pictures above show what they're like. Its 3 pieces. Cyl 1-2 and 5-6 are the same (horseshoe shape) and Cyl 3-4 is a solid flange. The bottom bolt slots make to easy to slip into place once the bolts are fitted in a few threads. They're 3/8" thick mild steel.

If anyone knows where I could buy a set, I'd appreciate it.

Oh, and although my tube-shaping model worked, I found a really slick way to do it better about halfway down this link:

Building Custom Headers

He uses flexible electrical wire tubing (like clothes drier ducting) and fills them with insulating spray foam to hold their shapes. Neat idea.

 

[xctasy]

I think its all wonderfull. That space saving is very important


The perenial problem has always been...an element of dis-respect. Like eveything...EGR Air Tube Bracket, Secondary AIR tubes, PCV baffles in rocker covers, Spark velocity ports in carbs, proper choke pulldowns, Heat stoves for headers. Proper emissions hook-ups.

There is no reason why we should have to resort to A/C or alternator relocation, or removing an Air Pump or power steering unit to fit a header or 2V/CI/VI head. None.

Q. How do I mount headers with A/C or a 2V/Classic Inlines/Vintage Inlines head?


A. The perenial problem has been the disrespect from suppliers over how to accomodate as stock passenger side York/Temumseah/Motorcraft A/C unit.

Answer One. You can't have the stock A/C unit...it has to be relocated if you have a header, or 2V/Classic In lines head.

Answer Two. You can't have the stock A/C unit....The only other A/C answer is pikesan's Alan Grove bracket, modified with longer standoffs, and swap the alternator and A/C positions.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19664&p=548680#p548680

Answer Three. You can't have the stock A/C unit... The "Eric the Car guy"'s low mount Sanden A/C kit from his Youtube video. The a/c and alternator positions are swapped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2I0c-j ... vs&index=2 at the "Dealer Add-on" A/C unit at 17:19 to 17:24 mark.

At the 5 to 6 minute mark on both videos, you'll see the "alternate" alternator position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22GsHQ ... t7JJ_QSZvs




http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... er-circuit

As thay say in Scottish, yer nae' s'posed ta see that... that's the also 1979 to 1992 Falcon cross flow XD/XE/XF 3.3 and 4.1 Liter Sanden A/C unit position. It still doesn't get you or anyone header space unless you swap the battery to the drivers side (plastktanker's aka Turbo 83's, and EFI 86 onwards battery swap kit before he put the battery in the trunk..) as there is still another 10 Centi French Units or 4 Imperialist Knobies of space needed for the alternator, but its possibly a step in the right direction. In your case, a low mount A/C unit might freeze in inclement weather anyways...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?169210-I6-serpentine-belt-conversion



And the wires. On my Nissan and my Toyota, they don't even color code the Celica GT4/RAV4 AWD wires or the replacement ABS sensor wires.

The Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual is an example of how North Americans are interested in respecting the people who actually service there rides.

Comparing one to the other



Its just I got 1.1" with my earlier small log. Thats 28 mm in French.





7/8" sounds right for the big Dog Turd.

Those 22.2 System Internationale units cause so many headaches for Small Ford Sixes everywhere.







When designing my Fazer end plate, the whole thing was the 3.188", 81 mm from the blue referenace datum that Mike and I used, to the edge of the EO/E1 log, about the same as the 2V/CI head edge. That's why I copied people who looked at the 2V log head adaptor plate in the early days.

Can't remember who did this, but it was all due to space limitations







RickWrench

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74022&p=569060#p569060

also did some simliar work on the whole issue of log to ancillary relationship, but cut-off-log-ectomy.

Youre work is great SN, keep it up.

 

[xctasy]

Vive la liberté Stromin'Norman.

If you need any parts, just holler.

 

[chad]

wish those ol pic remained (just C #17). I can't remember them...

 

[Stormin' Norman]

xctasy, Parts are leaving this weekend, from my local jy http://www.callingallcars.ca/index.htm (3 hours away) this weekend. Full of Ford Sixes.

I gotta say that this 4-door Cougar rides like a cloud. I've had a lot work around the house (not counting the "Honey-Do List") but it won't take long to prep it for a Government Safety Certificate.

 

[xctasy]

Nice one. Im replacing my roof. US Fox next