Built 250 tuning impressions ?
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MercuryMarc
Well-known member
PB=
250 69 block/80 head
Holley 1940 Manual Choke Carb
69 C4 tranny
14 inch wheels
Not sure the RPMs
I could never get the HW5200 2V to work well....
What are you running?
250 69 block/80 head
Holley 1940 Manual Choke Carb
69 C4 tranny
14 inch wheels
Not sure the RPMs
I could never get the HW5200 2V to work well....
What are you running?
BaldEagleMav
Active member
Hi Powerband,
I'm not sure if I would say that I have a "built" 250, but you can decide.
Here's what I've got:
'73 250 block (stock so far)
'79 200 head (milled just enough to ensure flatness)
Clifford single-out header
Clifford port divider
H-W 5200 carb w/ home-made adapter from a block of aluminum
Single 2 1/4" exhaust system
Summit-brand single-in, single-out (2 1/4") muffler (similar to Brand "F")
Duraspark 2 ignition off a '79 Fairmont
K&N Air Filter in stock ('73) air cleaner canister (bottom hole opened up to fit on H-W 5200)
Cold air set-up from an early '80's Taurus
I like the driveability of the H-W 5200. It's very responsive on the primary barrel and I can feel a real boost when the second barrel opens up!
Just my 2 cents,
I'm not sure if I would say that I have a "built" 250, but you can decide.
Here's what I've got:
'73 250 block (stock so far)
'79 200 head (milled just enough to ensure flatness)
Clifford single-out header
Clifford port divider
H-W 5200 carb w/ home-made adapter from a block of aluminum
Single 2 1/4" exhaust system
Summit-brand single-in, single-out (2 1/4") muffler (similar to Brand "F")
Duraspark 2 ignition off a '79 Fairmont
K&N Air Filter in stock ('73) air cleaner canister (bottom hole opened up to fit on H-W 5200)
Cold air set-up from an early '80's Taurus
I like the driveability of the H-W 5200. It's very responsive on the primary barrel and I can feel a real boost when the second barrel opens up!
Just my 2 cents,
A
Anonymous
Guest
Not really what I would consider "modded"... though I'm happy to report that a well tuned 1980 granada (last of the big ones...) runs well above my expectations. The motor is the stock 250 with a gutted pre-cat, and a straight 2" exhaust into a quiet "turbo" muffler. All the emmissions equipment (air injection, egr, vaccum switches) are gone... as well as the fan. I had great performance with a holley replacement carb for a 300 ford... though the mileage was poor when jetted for power.. (less than 20) I re-jetted my weber 32/36 from my mazda truck (redline replacement) and used a spare clifford adapter I had laying around. The result is impressive... a tire smoking granada with 2.78 rear gears that gets 25+ miles per gallon with a c4 auto and shift kit. Not as much torque as the large 1v carb, but it's close.. and the mpg + top end make up for it! As for the fan.. I'm running an electric with a thermo-switch... cheap junkyard pull that does a great job using the "low" speed winding. No internal mods.. just pretty impressive performance for the slug it was when I got it!
BaldEagleMav
Active member
Hi Mercman,
Impressive mileage!
I'm just getting my '73 Maverick to the point where it will hopefully become my daily driver. I hope to get up to 25 mpg!
Powerband, I meant to mention in my earlier response: "I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "driveability". If you have any specific questions, I would be glad to respond to them."
Regards,
Impressive mileage!
I'm just getting my '73 Maverick to the point where it will hopefully become my daily driver. I hope to get up to 25 mpg!
Powerband, I meant to mention in my earlier response: "I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "driveability". If you have any specific questions, I would be glad to respond to them."
Regards,
MercuryMarc
Well-known member
Mercman-
I am impressed!
Sounds a lot like my Comet- with an older 250 block and a newer head w/larger valves and hardened seals.
Like you I have great torque and power with the large 1V 1940 Truck Carb (I think it was for 240-300 ci) but poor MPG.
When you used the 32/36 carb, what jets did you end up with?
Hoping also to get mid 20's MPG...
Thanks!
I am impressed!
Sounds a lot like my Comet- with an older 250 block and a newer head w/larger valves and hardened seals.
Like you I have great torque and power with the large 1V 1940 Truck Carb (I think it was for 240-300 ci) but poor MPG.
When you used the 32/36 carb, what jets did you end up with?
Hoping also to get mid 20's MPG...
Thanks!
I'm finishing the install of a 250 in the '61 Comet. I previously had a 71 Mav 170 with built head - @ 9.5/1 CR, H/W 2bbl and dual out Headers. The 170 was smooth quick and would wind up past 5K rpm no problem. I'm using the same 3.03 3spd (for now) with the original 3.50 rear. I am interested in info from actual 250 drivers as to what to expect and/or prepare for with the 250.
The 250 install in the '61 has numerous issues such as needing an electric pusher fan, modded steering tie center link, firewall interference, motor mount fabbing, Z-bar re-fabbing etc... as mentioned in other threads.
Powerband
The 250 install in the '61 has numerous issues such as needing an electric pusher fan, modded steering tie center link, firewall interference, motor mount fabbing, Z-bar re-fabbing etc... as mentioned in other threads.
Powerband
A
Anonymous
Guest
MercuryMarc,
Thanks! When I pulled the 32/36 carb it was jetted for my truck with a custom ground cam and header for the little 2.2... it had :
145/180 main/air primary
180/190 main/air secondary
60 idles on both sides.. this carb uses the one big/one small idle jet setup.
It actually ran really well like that in the granada... but the bottom end was lacking, even though the top end pretty much matched the large 1v holley/motorcraft carb. (which by the way is my favorite break in carb... easy to jet and no emmissions crap! Never let me down.)
The re-jetting for the granada 250 so far is:
160/170 main/air primary
200/180 main/air primary
70/65 idles primary/secondary
I like this combo so much that I got another 200 to put in the old comet since I can't bear to take apart such a nice granada yet! (54,000 miles..)
I have some more jets on the way to tweak it a bit... it's just soooo much fun to tune this thing, I'm going to try it a bit leaner on the main, back off the vacuum advance some and bump up the initial a bit more. For now it's going to sit as I still ride the motorcycle to save money for the mortgage.. the car gets decent mileage but It can't compare to 50 from the bike.
Thanks! When I pulled the 32/36 carb it was jetted for my truck with a custom ground cam and header for the little 2.2... it had :
145/180 main/air primary
180/190 main/air secondary
60 idles on both sides.. this carb uses the one big/one small idle jet setup.
It actually ran really well like that in the granada... but the bottom end was lacking, even though the top end pretty much matched the large 1v holley/motorcraft carb. (which by the way is my favorite break in carb... easy to jet and no emmissions crap! Never let me down.)
The re-jetting for the granada 250 so far is:
160/170 main/air primary
200/180 main/air primary
70/65 idles primary/secondary
I like this combo so much that I got another 200 to put in the old comet since I can't bear to take apart such a nice granada yet! (54,000 miles..)
I have some more jets on the way to tweak it a bit... it's just soooo much fun to tune this thing, I'm going to try it a bit leaner on the main, back off the vacuum advance some and bump up the initial a bit more. For now it's going to sit as I still ride the motorcycle to save money for the mortgage.. the car gets decent mileage but It can't compare to 50 from the bike.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Powerband,
That's a nice combo... I can't wait to hear how it works! If that's the original rear in the comet (my 63 vert. also has 3.50 gears..) be careful with the clutch. I really do believe the 250 will break it in short order if driven hard...
Like I said though.. nice car!
BaldEagleMav,
If you have highway gears (less than 3.00 and with something around a 25 inch tire) you should be turning fairly low rpm's... when you get that 5200 set it should give you decent mpg! Good luck! I guess I should mention I'm running synthetic in the tranny and motor... mobil 5-20 in the engine and mobil 1 atf in the tranny. No problems so far.. though I don't know if it helped mileage any. Getting rid of that big honkin' fan and injection pump was a nice change as well!
That's a nice combo... I can't wait to hear how it works! If that's the original rear in the comet (my 63 vert. also has 3.50 gears..) be careful with the clutch. I really do believe the 250 will break it in short order if driven hard...
Like I said though.. nice car!
BaldEagleMav,
If you have highway gears (less than 3.00 and with something around a 25 inch tire) you should be turning fairly low rpm's... when you get that 5200 set it should give you decent mpg! Good luck! I guess I should mention I'm running synthetic in the tranny and motor... mobil 5-20 in the engine and mobil 1 atf in the tranny. No problems so far.. though I don't know if it helped mileage any. Getting rid of that big honkin' fan and injection pump was a nice change as well!
Howdy Powerband:
As always, the devil is in the details.
I'm running a rebuilt '73 250 block in my '65 Ranchero. It was overbored .030" with stock cast small dish pistons. The block was decked .070" but that still left a huge deck clearance of .080" plus the Fel-Pro head gasket. the cam is a Comp 260, which is quite mild- .440" lift on 110 degree lobe centers. The rods were polished, ARP rod bolts installed, and the whole assembley was dynamic balanced. I use a 2 groove damper.
The head is a D8, modified for a single two barrel, which, right now is a Holley #4412 rated at 500 cfm. The carb has been tuned with input from WSA111 on the jetting, power valve and PVCR. I'm still a tad rich with 68 mains.
The head has been extensively ported and a 1.46" intake valve from a 144 engine was used to increase the size of the exhaust. (This was before AZMike and FSPP). The intakes were back-cut. The chambers were polished and equalized. A port divider was welded in. It has a single out header that is HPC coated with a 2" system to the back.
Compression ratio came out to 9.75:1, but remember, I'm at about 5,000 ft elevation.
The ignition is a DS II that has been recurved. I added an MSD coil. Initial is set at 16 to 20 degrees depending on the need and heat.
Power is transmitted through an SROD 4 speed overdrive through the stock 3.50:1 geared 7.25" rearend. Getting the fabricated engine and trans mounts right took some doing to get the engine to set as low and as far back as I could. I am running a stock 4 blade fan with the stock '65 2 row radiator, which has been cored and cleaned and a 185 thermostat. I did have to move the radiator forward slightly.
I've been driving it for about 3 years now, mostly in town. I try to avoid driving it in hard winter time, but have on occassion. The only problems has been wheel hop on hard starts from a stop. I added another full length spring leaf, but that did not control it completely. I will be trying a slapper bar next. I also have a problem with the six small rear u-joint. I've had to replace it twice. Wheel hop is not good! I did have a hard time finding an out of balance front slip yoke. The vibration drove me nuts. I kept working on the driveshaft, u-joints and u-joint angles. In desperation we removed the whole driveline and added pieces back in until we found it.
The start up, driveability, and economy is very nice. It idles at about 600 rpm and fairly smoothly. The SROD gearing with the 3.50 rear gear is too steep in 1st, for useful city driving. I have a 4 lug 8" with 2.79 r&p that I will install soon, but that will likely be too high. I'll be looking for a 3.00 or 3.25 third member for the future. Right now, with 2.05 x 70 x 14s' I'm turning 3,000 at 70 mph.
The engine winds quickly and easily. I power shift at 5,500 rpms.
For safety, I've added a dual bowl MC, seat belts with shoulder strap.
Did I mis anything? Hope this helps you. I'm anxious for you to get this piece of history going.
Adios, David
As always, the devil is in the details.
I'm running a rebuilt '73 250 block in my '65 Ranchero. It was overbored .030" with stock cast small dish pistons. The block was decked .070" but that still left a huge deck clearance of .080" plus the Fel-Pro head gasket. the cam is a Comp 260, which is quite mild- .440" lift on 110 degree lobe centers. The rods were polished, ARP rod bolts installed, and the whole assembley was dynamic balanced. I use a 2 groove damper.
The head is a D8, modified for a single two barrel, which, right now is a Holley #4412 rated at 500 cfm. The carb has been tuned with input from WSA111 on the jetting, power valve and PVCR. I'm still a tad rich with 68 mains.
The head has been extensively ported and a 1.46" intake valve from a 144 engine was used to increase the size of the exhaust. (This was before AZMike and FSPP). The intakes were back-cut. The chambers were polished and equalized. A port divider was welded in. It has a single out header that is HPC coated with a 2" system to the back.
Compression ratio came out to 9.75:1, but remember, I'm at about 5,000 ft elevation.
The ignition is a DS II that has been recurved. I added an MSD coil. Initial is set at 16 to 20 degrees depending on the need and heat.
Power is transmitted through an SROD 4 speed overdrive through the stock 3.50:1 geared 7.25" rearend. Getting the fabricated engine and trans mounts right took some doing to get the engine to set as low and as far back as I could. I am running a stock 4 blade fan with the stock '65 2 row radiator, which has been cored and cleaned and a 185 thermostat. I did have to move the radiator forward slightly.
I've been driving it for about 3 years now, mostly in town. I try to avoid driving it in hard winter time, but have on occassion. The only problems has been wheel hop on hard starts from a stop. I added another full length spring leaf, but that did not control it completely. I will be trying a slapper bar next. I also have a problem with the six small rear u-joint. I've had to replace it twice. Wheel hop is not good! I did have a hard time finding an out of balance front slip yoke. The vibration drove me nuts. I kept working on the driveshaft, u-joints and u-joint angles. In desperation we removed the whole driveline and added pieces back in until we found it.
The start up, driveability, and economy is very nice. It idles at about 600 rpm and fairly smoothly. The SROD gearing with the 3.50 rear gear is too steep in 1st, for useful city driving. I have a 4 lug 8" with 2.79 r&p that I will install soon, but that will likely be too high. I'll be looking for a 3.00 or 3.25 third member for the future. Right now, with 2.05 x 70 x 14s' I'm turning 3,000 at 70 mph.
The engine winds quickly and easily. I power shift at 5,500 rpms.
For safety, I've added a dual bowl MC, seat belts with shoulder strap.
Did I mis anything? Hope this helps you. I'm anxious for you to get this piece of history going.
Adios, David
Howdy back at ya' - The devil is indeed...
The radiator is from a '71 Maverick 170 car and is is a little larger but has the smaller hose necks so I'm a little concerned abot flow with the 250's larger outlet/inlet capability not being used. A 2950 CFM pusher fan is "in the mail", I guess the '65 had a little more room than the '61 and I have the firewall pushed back not only to clear the bell but had to "form" the firewall for head clearance!.
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I had a T5 lined up but somebody gave the guy a '65 Comet wagon and he decided to keep it. Probably just as well that I have one major change at a time anyway. I was considering an SROD OD tranny with the 3.50 rear and have a Mav 2.89 - 8" I'll get to eventually. Funny I was talking to a gear guy about a 3.25 chunk for it just the other day.
I too had BAD wheel hop with the 3.50 rear with just the warmed 170/3.03 . The rear spring eye was broken and I fabbed it. It held thru lots more 'hoppin but will need to be better fixd'
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I found an article in the other forum on "Modern (Caltrec) type bars you might be interested in:
www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction
Nice to hear the 250 will wind up to the RPM's you're pushing, I was wondering about the Undersquare (?) bore/stroke limitations.
I did the center link "flip" - (thanks again) but the starter is still TOO close to the Hooker Maverick dual outs. I have an early 90's 'stang 5.0 starter also "in the mail" but I'm concerned about fit. I measure @ 5/8" from the starter mounting flange to back of ring gear. wondering if it can be shimmed if needed?. Everyone tells me different things about Ford starter aplications.
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I got the DS back in, the dual out pipes cut and ready for hanging, throttle (single YF for initial start) and ignition / charging elec. finished . The Clifford mill came with their recurved DS-I , I presume I should still run the vac advance and leave the retard port open??.
Now that I'm done with the first 90% of the job, I can finish the other 90% in details...
Powerband 8)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powerband/
The radiator is from a '71 Maverick 170 car and is is a little larger but has the smaller hose necks so I'm a little concerned abot flow with the 250's larger outlet/inlet capability not being used. A 2950 CFM pusher fan is "in the mail", I guess the '65 had a little more room than the '61 and I have the firewall pushed back not only to clear the bell but had to "form" the firewall for head clearance!.
I had a T5 lined up but somebody gave the guy a '65 Comet wagon and he decided to keep it. Probably just as well that I have one major change at a time anyway. I was considering an SROD OD tranny with the 3.50 rear and have a Mav 2.89 - 8" I'll get to eventually. Funny I was talking to a gear guy about a 3.25 chunk for it just the other day.
I too had BAD wheel hop with the 3.50 rear with just the warmed 170/3.03 . The rear spring eye was broken and I fabbed it. It held thru lots more 'hoppin but will need to be better fixd'
I found an article in the other forum on "Modern (Caltrec) type bars you might be interested in:
www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction
Nice to hear the 250 will wind up to the RPM's you're pushing, I was wondering about the Undersquare (?) bore/stroke limitations.
I did the center link "flip" - (thanks again) but the starter is still TOO close to the Hooker Maverick dual outs. I have an early 90's 'stang 5.0 starter also "in the mail" but I'm concerned about fit. I measure @ 5/8" from the starter mounting flange to back of ring gear. wondering if it can be shimmed if needed?. Everyone tells me different things about Ford starter aplications.
I got the DS back in, the dual out pipes cut and ready for hanging, throttle (single YF for initial start) and ignition / charging elec. finished . The Clifford mill came with their recurved DS-I , I presume I should still run the vac advance and leave the retard port open??.
Now that I'm done with the first 90% of the job, I can finish the other 90% in details...
Powerband 8)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powerband/
Howdy Again:
Thanks for the Update. I forgot to ask- Do you know which cam Jack put in this engine?
My header was for a 250, a single outlet and I still had starter clearance issues.
The Radiator hose difference can be handled in a variety of ways. Either use a 200 thermostat housing, or order a 250 upper & lower hose and use the adaptor most radiator shops use to neck down to the next size. I did the second rather than having the inlet and outlet bungs replaced with the larger size.
I'd stick with the DS I ignition that came with the engine. It will be more stealth and period correct with the 3 X 1s. Depending on the cam and the engine vacuum (with the multi-carbs) you may want/have to use manifold vacuum rather then a ported source for the vacuum advance side.
Do you know what the CR is on this engine?
I also forgot to tell you that my 250 is not peaky or boggie at all. It pulls strongly from 1,500 on up. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the tractability of the engine with a 3.03 tranny.
Keep the good info coming and know that soon you'll be driving this gem. keep the faith.
Adios, David
Thanks for the Update. I forgot to ask- Do you know which cam Jack put in this engine?
My header was for a 250, a single outlet and I still had starter clearance issues.
The Radiator hose difference can be handled in a variety of ways. Either use a 200 thermostat housing, or order a 250 upper & lower hose and use the adaptor most radiator shops use to neck down to the next size. I did the second rather than having the inlet and outlet bungs replaced with the larger size.
I'd stick with the DS I ignition that came with the engine. It will be more stealth and period correct with the 3 X 1s. Depending on the cam and the engine vacuum (with the multi-carbs) you may want/have to use manifold vacuum rather then a ported source for the vacuum advance side.
Do you know what the CR is on this engine?
I also forgot to tell you that my 250 is not peaky or boggie at all. It pulls strongly from 1,500 on up. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the tractability of the engine with a 3.03 tranny.
Keep the good info coming and know that soon you'll be driving this gem. keep the faith.
Adios, David
Howdy back PB:
Yup, I checked out the Caltran site, but I had already added an additional main leaf and ordered a set of bolt-on slapper bars from Summit, so I'll continue that way.
The 272 will likely take away some of your bottom end range, but, depending on your gear ratio, it may not matter much. And, the 8.8 CR will also help low rpm driveability. You may want to experiment with using manifold vacuum or your distributor with a cam with this much duration. It will lessen your idle vacuum.
Sorting out the 3 x 1s may take some doing, but they are soooo cool. No doubt, the two barrels are a whole lot easier and more steady.
It's been almost a week since the last update. What's going on???
Adios, David
Yup, I checked out the Caltran site, but I had already added an additional main leaf and ordered a set of bolt-on slapper bars from Summit, so I'll continue that way.
The 272 will likely take away some of your bottom end range, but, depending on your gear ratio, it may not matter much. And, the 8.8 CR will also help low rpm driveability. You may want to experiment with using manifold vacuum or your distributor with a cam with this much duration. It will lessen your idle vacuum.
Sorting out the 3 x 1s may take some doing, but they are soooo cool. No doubt, the two barrels are a whole lot easier and more steady.
It's been almost a week since the last update. What's going on???
Adios, David
CZ:
"It's been almost a week since the last update. What's going on??? "
Yup, been about a week - away on family vacation.
But the day before I left, I got the Pusher Fan and starter installed, ignition hooked up and dual exhaust tacked in. so I just couldn't wait to try firing it up since it was actually complete.
I initially used a YF I had but when I tried starting, it appeared to be leaking raw gas into the intake and the engine wouldn't fire .
A little manic at the idea of washing the cylinders with raw gas, I switched to the 32/36 I used last with the 170. Still the engine cranked but wouldn't fire.
I quickly found I wasn't getting spark. I am using the Clifford re-curved DS-I dizzy with a GM HEI module and when I had tried spinning the shaft right before I put it in, I got lots of spark at the plugs (Yow) . I had spun the oil pump with a dizzy with removed gear and had a friend turn the crank aso I had the dizzy out. I removed the dizzy again and spun the shaft and again got spark???. I put it back in - crank starter - no spark??!!. All connections are good, I verified 12V at coil and module . Again pull it out - plenty spark even with grounding jumper from dizzy to engine SO I'M STUMPED!!!???...
Now I'm stumped and it's getting dark and I'm supposed to leave in a few hours my wife keeps "reminding" me. So I put in an old points dizzy and I tried it === Fired right up with a snarl!! I wanted to run in the cam so I ran it up to @ 2K RPM and as it ran it got real hot - fast.
The thermostat opened, the Thermocool 2950 CFM fan came on but the temerature kept rising past safe although the coolant was circulating well. At about 240F and just under H on the guage, I got nervous and started spraying water on the radiator. This cooled it down but as soon as I removed the water it would shoot up again. I did a quick rough timing to get it @6-8 BTDC to try to help the overheat problem. After @20 min running and cooling the radiator with water I shut it down let it cool for an hour or so and then tried it again. It fired right up so I quickly tried the running gear and the clutch, tranny and drivetrain all seemed good. So good in fact I ran it down the road a ways and found it quick and respponsive. The temp rose fast so I parked it and left for vacation.
I returned a few hours ago (Thurs nite) and I'm anxious to get back to it as I've been running over the "issues" for close to a week from a distance:
> The DS-I dizzy works out of the car, but I did get shocked while holding the shaft housing and spinning it - ??. It doesn't work in the car - ??
> The '71 Maverick radiator worked fine with the 9.5/1- 170 engine and I really tromped on that sucker. Is the somewhat small radiator the problem or is there something else going on??
Any useful ideas appreciated.
At least it did fire up and run GREAT!. No smoke and smooth down to a fast idle . I will be working on these issues at first light - once I unpack!.
Powerband
"It's been almost a week since the last update. What's going on??? "
Yup, been about a week - away on family vacation.
But the day before I left, I got the Pusher Fan and starter installed, ignition hooked up and dual exhaust tacked in. so I just couldn't wait to try firing it up since it was actually complete.
I initially used a YF I had but when I tried starting, it appeared to be leaking raw gas into the intake and the engine wouldn't fire .
A little manic at the idea of washing the cylinders with raw gas, I switched to the 32/36 I used last with the 170. Still the engine cranked but wouldn't fire.
I quickly found I wasn't getting spark. I am using the Clifford re-curved DS-I dizzy with a GM HEI module and when I had tried spinning the shaft right before I put it in, I got lots of spark at the plugs (Yow) . I had spun the oil pump with a dizzy with removed gear and had a friend turn the crank aso I had the dizzy out. I removed the dizzy again and spun the shaft and again got spark???. I put it back in - crank starter - no spark??!!. All connections are good, I verified 12V at coil and module . Again pull it out - plenty spark even with grounding jumper from dizzy to engine SO I'M STUMPED!!!???...
Now I'm stumped and it's getting dark and I'm supposed to leave in a few hours my wife keeps "reminding" me. So I put in an old points dizzy and I tried it === Fired right up with a snarl!! I wanted to run in the cam so I ran it up to @ 2K RPM and as it ran it got real hot - fast.
The thermostat opened, the Thermocool 2950 CFM fan came on but the temerature kept rising past safe although the coolant was circulating well. At about 240F and just under H on the guage, I got nervous and started spraying water on the radiator. This cooled it down but as soon as I removed the water it would shoot up again. I did a quick rough timing to get it @6-8 BTDC to try to help the overheat problem. After @20 min running and cooling the radiator with water I shut it down let it cool for an hour or so and then tried it again. It fired right up so I quickly tried the running gear and the clutch, tranny and drivetrain all seemed good. So good in fact I ran it down the road a ways and found it quick and respponsive. The temp rose fast so I parked it and left for vacation.
I returned a few hours ago (Thurs nite) and I'm anxious to get back to it as I've been running over the "issues" for close to a week from a distance:
> The DS-I dizzy works out of the car, but I did get shocked while holding the shaft housing and spinning it - ??. It doesn't work in the car - ??
> The '71 Maverick radiator worked fine with the 9.5/1- 170 engine and I really tromped on that sucker. Is the somewhat small radiator the problem or is there something else going on??
Any useful ideas appreciated.
At least it did fire up and run GREAT!. No smoke and smooth down to a fast idle . I will be working on these issues at first light - once I unpack!.
Powerband
Howdy Back PB:
1st go unpack!!!
Great report. Two fairly obvious observations- 1st, more initial advance will run cooler. Start with 14 to 16 and go from there. 2nd, you are likely running very lean on the H/W from the 170. It seems every time we tried a new 2100 size on Dennis' 200 and my 250, we noticed the exhaust getting very hot very fast. The norm was at least three full turns out on the low seed air screws. My Holley #4412 seems to be about right with 1 1/2 turns out. Richening the idle and even the main jets will not result in cylinder wash, like a stuck choke or flooding, so don't worry about that.
Lastly, on a fresh rebuild you will see some additional heat on start up. It is the very beginning of the break-in process. I'm still running the original '65 Falcon 200 radiator, although it has been cored and rebuilt, with no heating problems.
The DS I is a nice mystery. Here's hopin' it's something simple and obvious, that solves it.
I'm sure you've told me, but I'm old- what rear gear are you running?
Thanks for the update.
Adios, David
1st go unpack!!!
Great report. Two fairly obvious observations- 1st, more initial advance will run cooler. Start with 14 to 16 and go from there. 2nd, you are likely running very lean on the H/W from the 170. It seems every time we tried a new 2100 size on Dennis' 200 and my 250, we noticed the exhaust getting very hot very fast. The norm was at least three full turns out on the low seed air screws. My Holley #4412 seems to be about right with 1 1/2 turns out. Richening the idle and even the main jets will not result in cylinder wash, like a stuck choke or flooding, so don't worry about that.
Lastly, on a fresh rebuild you will see some additional heat on start up. It is the very beginning of the break-in process. I'm still running the original '65 Falcon 200 radiator, although it has been cored and rebuilt, with no heating problems.
The DS I is a nice mystery. Here's hopin' it's something simple and obvious, that solves it.
I'm sure you've told me, but I'm old- what rear gear are you running?
Thanks for the update.
Adios, David
Thanks again for the response, it's good to have a solid wall to bounce questions off:
Rear is currently stock 3.50 but I have a Mav' 2.89 8" waiting for the resolution of initial problems
> Is there supposed to be an insulator plate of phenolic or something on top of the reluctor - under the rotor in the DS-I ? . It seems the diz works OK. When I spin the gear by hand holding the diz body I get spark at a plugs but also get good shock to my hand holding diz and any surface I am contacting with my body - (Yow again , I'm getting my batteries recharged) It seems it may be arcing/shorting itself out when installed. Kinda like too much spark. I'm trying this with the complete hookup in the car and only the diz removed and held in the engine bay. I did try hand-spinning with a grounding jumper from diz to engine but it still sparked at plug OK --- Still a mystery...
> I'll try more advance and I have a good running 7448 (350 CFM) 2300 which worked well on the 170 but ran quite rich so that should be a lot closer to the 250's needs. Need to remove rear plate-blocked Holley 3X1s for throttle linkage room though.
> The 14" elec. pusher fan mounts flush to the radiator and although moves a lot of air, it seems to be pushing as much off the front radiator sides as through the somewhat small radiator area directly in front of the blades. I'm questioning if the fan needs more distance or ducting to work effectively. I am eyeing the radiator in my K10 (350 ) plow truck as a test rig if I can't resolve the heat problem soon ,,,
Ancillary tales:
>The starter from the 91 5.0 works great and is much smaller than the regular one, clearing the headers and probably the inner steering link (without flipping) as well. I'll check that out when I get a chance.
> the Hooker dual out (6602 's of rare Maverick application needed major "forming" to fit the '61 and will need re-visiting. Oddly the POR-20 hi-temp paint I carefully applied as per POR's insrux. blistered immediately and is peeling off. A minor pain and mystery. I had them sandblasted clean for $30 and spent $30 on the paint and lots of careful prep and application time !.
Lots of unrelated business upon return from vacation so I'm anxious but holding off further work until I can concentrate. I'm just satisfied the many systems I put together with advice and encouragement are functioning reasonably well and the mysteries are few.
Powerband
8)
Rear is currently stock 3.50 but I have a Mav' 2.89 8" waiting for the resolution of initial problems
> Is there supposed to be an insulator plate of phenolic or something on top of the reluctor - under the rotor in the DS-I ? . It seems the diz works OK. When I spin the gear by hand holding the diz body I get spark at a plugs but also get good shock to my hand holding diz and any surface I am contacting with my body - (Yow again , I'm getting my batteries recharged) It seems it may be arcing/shorting itself out when installed. Kinda like too much spark. I'm trying this with the complete hookup in the car and only the diz removed and held in the engine bay. I did try hand-spinning with a grounding jumper from diz to engine but it still sparked at plug OK --- Still a mystery...
> I'll try more advance and I have a good running 7448 (350 CFM) 2300 which worked well on the 170 but ran quite rich so that should be a lot closer to the 250's needs. Need to remove rear plate-blocked Holley 3X1s for throttle linkage room though.
> The 14" elec. pusher fan mounts flush to the radiator and although moves a lot of air, it seems to be pushing as much off the front radiator sides as through the somewhat small radiator area directly in front of the blades. I'm questioning if the fan needs more distance or ducting to work effectively. I am eyeing the radiator in my K10 (350 ) plow truck as a test rig if I can't resolve the heat problem soon ,,,
Ancillary tales:
>The starter from the 91 5.0 works great and is much smaller than the regular one, clearing the headers and probably the inner steering link (without flipping) as well. I'll check that out when I get a chance.
> the Hooker dual out (6602 's of rare Maverick application needed major "forming" to fit the '61 and will need re-visiting. Oddly the POR-20 hi-temp paint I carefully applied as per POR's insrux. blistered immediately and is peeling off. A minor pain and mystery. I had them sandblasted clean for $30 and spent $30 on the paint and lots of careful prep and application time !.
Lots of unrelated business upon return from vacation so I'm anxious but holding off further work until I can concentrate. I'm just satisfied the many systems I put together with advice and encouragement are functioning reasonably well and the mysteries are few.
Powerband
8)
I advanced the timing out to @14-16 BTDC and switched over to the 7448 350CFM carb.
I also tried ducting the elec. fan as a lot of air blows out the sides with the blade flipped over ( as per Permacool ) for" Pusher" mode. This didn't help much so I removed the hood support and flipped the whole fan over with the blade in "Normal Puller" mode in front of the radiator.. That helped a lot and blows a lot of air straight through the radiator.
It took a lot longer to heat up and I was able to get a little ride in but it looks like I will need a bigger radiator. The temp hovered at @ 220 and then, with the ride, headed over 240 so I shut it down and let the fan cool the radiator for a few minutes , then starting it to circulate and cool the engine until it was below 200. I talked to a guy with a 65 Mustang 3 row VeeAte radiator. That might be the simplest route or a "Universal" from Summit might fit. I need to search the Forum archives I guess.
Starts immediately and runs well, I can't wait til I have confidence it won't overheat so I can see what it will do...
I also tried ducting the elec. fan as a lot of air blows out the sides with the blade flipped over ( as per Permacool ) for" Pusher" mode. This didn't help much so I removed the hood support and flipped the whole fan over with the blade in "Normal Puller" mode in front of the radiator.. That helped a lot and blows a lot of air straight through the radiator.
It took a lot longer to heat up and I was able to get a little ride in but it looks like I will need a bigger radiator. The temp hovered at @ 220 and then, with the ride, headed over 240 so I shut it down and let the fan cool the radiator for a few minutes , then starting it to circulate and cool the engine until it was below 200. I talked to a guy with a 65 Mustang 3 row VeeAte radiator. That might be the simplest route or a "Universal" from Summit might fit. I need to search the Forum archives I guess.
Starts immediately and runs well, I can't wait til I have confidence it won't overheat so I can see what it will do...
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