The V8 balancer fits the 240/300 crank snout, but I think the small 6 crank snout is different. Also, it sounds like your trying to degree your cam with the engine fully assembled. That is going to present some unique challenges that you don't have when you have only the crank and one rod mocked up in the block. Keep us posted on your progress.
Cam Degreeing 101
- Thread starter Mr Comet
- Start date
The crank Bolt size ( thread) is all you need to know , I have one with interchangeable pilots, and works on any engine I have done ( except metric threads ) the Dampener is inconsequential
Mr Comet":2ou39n6o said:
You run the risk of moving the degree wheel in relation to the crank and having to start from the beginning all over again.
Just bolt the degree wheel with that crank bolt and turn the crank with a large adjustable wrench on the crank snout with the key installed.
Mr Comet
Well-known member
After numerous attempts I got the degree wheel all set at TDC. Mounted and lined up the dial indicator with it's extension and started to turn the crank to see what would happen and the extension snapped right where it connects to the dial indicator. So I am on hold until Jegs sends me another extension and dial indicator. Is there any way I can take a fine amount off of my solid lifter to make it slide a little easier? How much lift should I get from the lifter? Right now I have to return the lifter by hand it does not just drop back down on it's own. This is all new to me those the 101 in the subject box. Thanks
Mr Comet":235iw40l said:
use some light oil on the lifter to get it to slide in the bore easier. you might also clean the lifter bore a bit. ATF works nicely by the way. you can also lube it up and manually run it through the bore until run runs freely, sometimes its just a matter of a minor burr that prevent free running, or a piece of dirt.
Mr Comet
Well-known member
I have the dial indicator installed. The indicator raises and falls every other rotation of the crankshaft. I am not getting the same equations twice also the indicator is not returning to 0 after each time it so up. Any thoughts? I am reading the wheel when the dial indicator lifts to 50 and read the wheel when it lowers to 50 correct?
Since many cam companies use different duration readings to advertise their cams, you need to look on your cam card to see if they are using an @.006" lift, or an @.020" lift or the @.050" lift method to measure this cam. If they are using the @.050" lift method, then yes, you need to also be measuring your cam readings at .050" as it begins to rise, and then stop at .050" before if comes back to zero to close. What readings are you not getting to repeat that you mentioned. Also, describe how you found and established TDC on your #1 piston.
Mr Comet
Well-known member
Werby Ford provided me with cam specs since I did not get a card. His specs are noted above in this thread. However my readings are as follows: 3 degree after tdc .050 beginning lift and 38 after bdc at the decline .050 reading. That gives me a 215 duration. This is one degree duration off the specs Werby Ford provided. I have come up with this reading three times in a row. The 3 degree after tdc is 6 degrees more advanced then Werby Ford specs. I reached tdc following the instructions for my degreeing kit noted below.
"Finding Top Dead Center (TDC):
1. Rotate the crankshaft until you get number one piston in approximate TDC position. Next, adjust your pointer to the
zero TDC position on the degree wheel.
2. It is essential at this point that you have some means of rotating the crank that will not interfere with the degree
wheel. The crank can be rotated from either the front or the flywheel end. The greater the leverage, the smoother
you can rotate the crank for timing checks. (Do not use the starter for turning the engine while degreeing).
3. Now that the Degree Wheel has been set at approximate TDC, and a means
for turning the crank provided, you’re ready to install and set the piston stop.
Turn the crankshaft to lower the piston enough in the cylinder to move the
degree wheel 15-20 degrees. Install the piston stop so that it contacts the
piston. (Figure 5) Turn the engine in the same direction until the piston
comes back up and touches the piston stop. Make a note of what degree the
pointer is on the degree wheel. Turn the engine in the opposite direction until
the piston comes back up and touches the piston stop. Make a note of what
degree the pointer is on the degree wheel. Add these two numbers together
then divide them in half. Example: Let’s say that the stop points are 16° in one
direction and 20° in the opposite direction. The total would be 36 degrees. This
figure divided in half would be 18 degrees. Therefore 18 degrees from either of
your stop points is true top dead center. Now either move the pointer to align with
the 18 degree mark on the degree wheel, or carefully loosen the degree wheel FIGURE 5
(without disturbing the position of the crankshaft) and move the degree wheel to the
18 degree mark, making sure that the piston is still against the stop. Now turn the engine in the opposite direction
until the piston comes back up and touches the stop. The pointer should be aligned with the 18 degree mark on the
other side of the TDC mark. If this is correct, then you have found true top dead center. It is best to repeat this to
make sure that nothing has moved. If you didn’t get 18°, as per the example, you will need to repeat the procedure
until you get the same amount of degrees on both sides of TDC. Remove your piston stop and you are ready to
properly degree your cam.
What should I being doing next?
"Finding Top Dead Center (TDC):
1. Rotate the crankshaft until you get number one piston in approximate TDC position. Next, adjust your pointer to the
zero TDC position on the degree wheel.
2. It is essential at this point that you have some means of rotating the crank that will not interfere with the degree
wheel. The crank can be rotated from either the front or the flywheel end. The greater the leverage, the smoother
you can rotate the crank for timing checks. (Do not use the starter for turning the engine while degreeing).
3. Now that the Degree Wheel has been set at approximate TDC, and a means
for turning the crank provided, you’re ready to install and set the piston stop.
Turn the crankshaft to lower the piston enough in the cylinder to move the
degree wheel 15-20 degrees. Install the piston stop so that it contacts the
piston. (Figure 5) Turn the engine in the same direction until the piston
comes back up and touches the piston stop. Make a note of what degree the
pointer is on the degree wheel. Turn the engine in the opposite direction until
the piston comes back up and touches the piston stop. Make a note of what
degree the pointer is on the degree wheel. Add these two numbers together
then divide them in half. Example: Let’s say that the stop points are 16° in one
direction and 20° in the opposite direction. The total would be 36 degrees. This
figure divided in half would be 18 degrees. Therefore 18 degrees from either of
your stop points is true top dead center. Now either move the pointer to align with
the 18 degree mark on the degree wheel, or carefully loosen the degree wheel FIGURE 5
(without disturbing the position of the crankshaft) and move the degree wheel to the
18 degree mark, making sure that the piston is still against the stop. Now turn the engine in the opposite direction
until the piston comes back up and touches the stop. The pointer should be aligned with the 18 degree mark on the
other side of the TDC mark. If this is correct, then you have found true top dead center. It is best to repeat this to
make sure that nothing has moved. If you didn’t get 18°, as per the example, you will need to repeat the procedure
until you get the same amount of degrees on both sides of TDC. Remove your piston stop and you are ready to
properly degree your cam.
What should I being doing next?
Ok, you need to find your centerline reading on the top side of the lobe, not just off of the base circle. Find your max lobe lift on the intake lobe and then use the same process as finding TDC, stop .050" on either side of peak lobe lift and divide by 2, that is your centerline for that lobe. This will show you if it is advanced or retarded from the cam specs. Adjust as needed.
Wow, if you got -3 and 38 youre only off by 1/2 degree that is doggone close.
I'd do as CNC suggests, then go around on the same lobe and record lift at
.006
.050
.100
.200
max approx
.200
.100
.050
.006
then repeat.
Then move to an exhaust lobe and see if that is equally close. Sounds encouraging though.
I'd do as CNC suggests, then go around on the same lobe and record lift at
.006
.050
.100
.200
max approx
.200
.100
.050
.006
then repeat.
Then move to an exhaust lobe and see if that is equally close. Sounds encouraging though.
Mr Comet
Well-known member
CNC Dude
.050 before top is 65 degree after tdc. .050 after top lobe is 159 after tdc. add the two and divide total by 2 equal 112. My cam box on the outside says 106 center line but then according to the card I SB 3 degrees before tdc and I am 3 degree after TDC or a difference of 6.
.050 before top is 65 degree after tdc. .050 after top lobe is 159 after tdc. add the two and divide total by 2 equal 112. My cam box on the outside says 106 center line but then according to the card I SB 3 degrees before tdc and I am 3 degree after TDC or a difference of 6.
Ok, don't confuse the LSA with the intake centerline, they are completely different measurements. The LSA(lobe separation angle) is the difference between the intake lobe centerline and exhaust lobe centerline in degrees, you are just measuring the intake centerline right now. But it appears to be 6° retarded based on your 3°ATDC reading where it should be 3°BTDC.
Mr Comet
Well-known member
The crankshaft sprocket is currently on 0 keyway on the crankshaft. The two dots are almost lined up between both sprokets. It has been suggested to me to now move the crankshaft sprocket to +4 keyway since I am currently 6 degree retarted from the cam shaft degreeing specs. Namely 3atdc instead of 3btdc @ .050 lift. After I remove the timing set what is moving the crankshaft? I would think nothing is changing if I just move the sprocket to +4 adjust the chain but both the camshaft and the crankshaft have not moved. If I move the crankshaft CCW to end up at the +4 keyway would that be correct. At least the crank position has changed.
Mr Comet":2z9035l7 said:
Yes, -3 means 3 ATC.
So right now, the .050 method gives you a 110.5 ICL
The max lift method gives you a 111.5 ICL
The real ICL should be either 110 (same as the LSA so ICL=110 and ECL=110)
Or maybe ICL should be 106 (like it says on the box, meaning the cam is 4 degrees advanced)
Either way, before you pull the gears apart, I'd check an exhaust lobe as confirmation of whats goin on.
And again, do the .006 .050 .100 .200 max .200 .100 .050 .006 thing on a couple triips around in a row.
