Click when turning ignition switch on?

[Canary94GT]

I've just rebuilt the head and am ready to start the engine, but when I turn the ignition switch, I get nothing but a click.

I've tried putting a new battery in, but get the same thing.

I can start and run the car by turning the ignition switch to on and then jumping the battery positive to the starter connection on the starter relay.

Is the starter relay bad? Is there anything else that could cause this, like a fuse?

Checklist:
Starter good
Battery good
Ground good
coil, dist, and plugs good

start relay ???
fuses ???

 

[addo]

They (relays) do occasionally fail. Our replacement ones here, come with a dire warning about overtightening the cable terminal studs, as this may shear off their internally soldered wires.

If everything else checks out OK, and the solenoid is wired right, you're probably correct in diagnosing it as failed.

Regards, Adam.

 

[ludwig]

x2 on the failed starter relay. They are not expensive (+/- $25) and they can be bad out of the box. Even the branded ones are made in China with brittle bakelite and fragile wiring inside. I managed to break something on a new one, right out of the box.

 

[jamyers]

That's one part where it pays to spend the time and money to get the best "Made in USA" part you can find.

 

[Canary94GT]

Well I'm pretty sure this is the original one.

Is it possible that these things just fail? I mean, one time you start it it's fine, the next time, it doesn't work?

By the way, would a Motorcraft one be made in the USA? I kind of want to go with the Concours original one.

 

[jamyers]

Yup, they can fail in a number of ways, most often they just suddenly quit working.

Don't know about a Motorcraft one, you'll probably have to get it in your hands and look-see, or ask.

 

[ludwig]

NPD or Larry's Mustang for concours class original. OTOH, the Ford labeled one I got was made in China and failed. The second one, also Ford labeled and made in China, is still working. Get one from NAPA; looks like stock and is returnable.

 

[Canary94GT]

Ok, just replaced the starter relay with a FOMOCO original one made in the USA, but that did not solve the problem.

Where should I look next?

 

[Canary94GT]

I actually found out the click is from the voltage regulator and not the starter relay ??

 

[ludwig]

Well, then you have a VR problem.

 

[Canary94GT]

But does the voltage regulator being the problem seem logical? Do you think it would cause these symptoms?

 

[Explorer]

I'd check the fuse link. Verify that you get voltage to the starter relay when ign. is turned to start position, if not, start tracing the problem.

 

[Canary94GT]

I get only 5 volts on the S terminal of the starter relay when the ignition switch is on

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

The old Voltage regs will click when you turn power on , is this automatic if so I suspect a nuetral saftey switch adjustment or bad , try wiggleing the shift lever ( obviously only if its an automatic )

 

['68falconohio]

...is this automatic if so I suspect a nuetral saftey switch adjustment or bad , try wiggleing the shift lever ( obviously only if its an automatic )

The tooth on my neutral safety switch partially broke so I had to pull up on the shifter a smidge to start it. Drove it like that for a couple years as an 'anti-theft' measure 'til it gave completely and I had to start it with my pocket knife on the solenoid.

Got approached by a police officer 'in the act'. "Yes sir, this is really my car. And yes, I am starting it with a pocket knife."

 

[Canary94GT]

Alright, so I jumped the car to start it again (using the screwdriver method) and it made some horrible noises (I thought it was just the oil attempting to flow to the rocker arms since the upper end was just rebuilt). However, I let it run for about a minute and then started seeing smoke rise from around the exhaust manifold flange. I looked closer and it looked like the paint on the front of the starter was beginning to liquify, so I touched it with a pair of leather gloves and it must have been so hot that some of the leather came off on the starter.

So once I realized this, we immediately shut it off and a hum continued for a second after we killed it (the starter motor still spinning?)

So almost surely the starter is bad if not just from being burnt up from getting so hot. But what could cause it to continue to rotate after starting?




Some background:
This whole car project started back in June. We decided to clean the engine bay, using Engine Brite and then hosing it with water. After doing this, we started the engine and noticed the same smoke and smell that we are getting from the starter now. However, we thought this was exhaust leaking from a crack in the manifold, so we replaced the manifold but broke a few bolts in the process, thus we just ended up getting the whole head rebuilt with a new exhaust manifold. The engine is finally back together and we have started it and we are getting that same smoke and smell. But now we see its coming from the same place as before - the front of the starter.

 

[Frankenstang]

Could the terrible noise be that the starter is still running after engine is running? If the starter is still running after you turn it off sounds like the solenoid is not wired correctly...could you have switched the I & S leads? I'd double check your wiring on the solenoid to make sure it is correct. Not sure what year/make/model this car is, but here is a sample wiring diagram for the starter system on a '66 mustang http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/wiring/1966/66ignit.jpg

 

[Canary94GT]

Sorry, it's a 1965 Mustang 200 ci with a manual transmission.

Thank you for the wiring diagram.

I know the two small wires coming off the relay are not mixed up, but for some reason when I test the resistance between the wire connected to the S terminal and the wire connected to the coil, I get limited to no resistance. How could this be? The S terminal wire is supposed to go to the ignition switch?

After the engine is switched off, the starter does not keep running but for a second as it sounds like it is slowing down to stop.

 

[Frankenstang]

But what could cause it to continue to rotate after starting?

oops...I got the impression the starter was still running after the key went from start to run. Sounds like a short overfeeding the starter...I'd check for bare wires.

Both the S and I terminal feed the coil, but the S terminal only feeds it while key is in start position, I when ignition is is on position

EDIT: that site also has '65 diagrams, which should be the same http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/wiring.htm

Whoops...don't you mean to say

EDIT2: wow...yeah I'm not sure what I was trying to say there in the wee hours of the morning, other than the coil is 'hot' when ignition is in start or run position...and that it sounds like a short 'circuit' could be feeding to much amperage to the starter

 

[jamyers]

...Both the S and I terminal feed the coil, but the S terminal only feeds it while key is in start position, I when ignition is is on position
...

Whoops...don't you mean to say;

The "S" terminal is the one that the ignition key energizes to activate the starter relay/solenoid to make the starter motor go.

The "I" terminal is basically a jumper to bypass the resistor wire and feed a full 12V to the ignition coil while the starter is going. Once the ignition key is released to the "Run" position, the starter relay/solenoid relaxes and the ignition coil is then feed less than 12V through the dreaded under-dash pink wire. :mrgreen:

Canary, you might try disconnecting the "I" wire either before or just after starting, and see what happens. On my car voltage was feeding back through that "I" wire and trying to keep the starter running. If you ever upgrade to electronic ignition and feed it full 12V all the time, you won't need the "I" terminal feed anymore at all (like me).