All Small Six Continuing the journey - T5 Upgrade

[awasson]

If you find you still have an imbalance, it is a lot of work but if you rotate the pressure plate 120 degrees at a time, or whatever the bolt pattern allows sometimes you can make it smoother.

Thanks. That’s a good tip. I’m hoping to get the flywheel turned tomorrow and then I’ll put it back with the new clutch and pressure plate. Then I’ll start it up to see how smooth it is. If it has a wobble, I’ll have plenty of time to adjust it 120 degrees at a time to see if I can improve it.

 

[drag-200stang]

Of course, the disc has to be centered with the trans input in place.

 

[awasson]

Of course, the disc has to be centered with the trans input in place.

I figured I would use the alignment tool to get the clutch disk centered when I install the new pressure plate and then leave the clutch pedal linkage disengaged until the transmission is attached so I don’t inadvertently engage it and displace the clutch.

 

[drag-200stang]

The ones I have used were not that good, I would not chance it, put the trans. in and maybe everything is smooth a silk and you are done.

 

[awasson]

flywheel skimmed and reinstalled. New diaphragm pressure plate and clutch in. Bell housing back on and now I wait for the correct adapter so I can finish the install.

 

[rickwrench]

Check your pinion angle against the engine/trans driveline angle, once everything is in. T5 is big up top and usually adds a couple degrees of down angle to the driveline (in my cases it's been an additional 3-3.5)˚. If you don't compensate, you'll likely have u-joint buzz on the highway.
There is a bit more room in a Mustang tunnel vs Falcon, but the issue still exists. Could be fine, but you should at least check.
Spacers on the trans mount to raise the T5 as high as possible (without rubbing) and angle wedges under the spring perches are the common solutions.

 

[awasson]

Check your pinion angle against the engine/trans driveline angle, once everything is in. T5 is big up top and usually adds a couple degrees of down angle to the driveline (in my cases it's been an additional 3-3.5)˚. If you don't compensate, you'll likely have u-joint buzz on the highway.
There is a bit more room in a Mustang tunnel vs Falcon, but the issue still exists. Could be fine, but you should at least check.
Spacers on the trans mount to raise the T5 as high as possible (without rubbing) and angle wedges under the spring perches are the common solutions.

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely check that when I install the transmission. I've just added it to my many, many notes on my checklist. I have an aftermarket trans mount from California Pony Cars but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some difference and I'd like it to be as smooth and happy as possible.

 

[powerband]

... and the shifter box/tunnel adds a few inches.
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some encouragement:
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3OTT to T5 '74 Maverick
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'63 Falcon Dagenham to T5 W/'formed' firewall, xmember fab.
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have fun

 

[awasson]

... and the shifter box/tunnel adds a few inches.
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some encouragement:
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3OTT to T5 '74 Maverick
. .
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'63 Falcon Dagenham to T5 W/'formed' firewall, xmember fab.
. .
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have fun

Thanks. Those installs sure turned out nice. Everything sits up so much higher than the mustang. On second though, I think the mustang transmission tunnel must sit higher. As far as I can tell the housing will be below the level of the tunnel but the shifter mechanism will be higher than, which I think will be advantageous. I hope I can change the springs and tension based on how I like the feel of it.

In other news, FedEx has notified me that the incorrect part is going to arrive at California Pony Cars today and the fellow I have been speaking with says he'll do everything in his power to get me the new one asap!!

Everyone I talked to at CPC has been great and the kit I bought, aside from the small/large bell housing discrepancy is really decent.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[awasson]

Well… The part I sent back to California Pony Cars via FedEx that was supposed to arrive Wednesday, last week, finally arrived this morning after spending most of last week in Oregon and then heading to Texas on Monday. It’s not that far past Sacramento. I could have driven it there in 15-20 hours. Now I wait for the correct part to be shipped back.

Now, something I discovered is that they don’t have a kit listed that will work for my car and likely for a bunch of 1966 Mustang 3-speed cars because mine has a bell housing they don’t list for 1966; C7ZA-6394-A. They have that listed as a 1967 bell housing but their 1967 inline 6 kit doesn’t show that bell housing so I don’t think it’s possible for my car to just go online and get the right kit. I’ve mentioned this to the sales rep, I’m in contact with but I don’t think he really understands how many variation there were with the dual pattern block inline-6, 66 Mustang. If I had the 2.77 3-speed, I’d have been fine became it uses a smaller bell housing but I may have had a smaller clutch (I’m not sure). Mine has the top loader 3.03 transmission and bigger bell housing and that’s where everything went sideways for getting the right kit.

Anyway, I’m just anxiously waiting for the correct part to arrive. More later.

Andrew

 

[awasson]

Not any more progress, just some rambling thoughts, while I wait…

So it seems to me that if you have a 1966 Mustang (and maybe other models) with a small 6 in 1966, it’s a bit difficult to plan your transmission upgrade unless you have it apart, right in front of you and then you’ll need some assistance from Modern Drive Line or California Pony Cars. Reason being that there seems to be no rhyme or reason to whether you got a car with the Dagenham 2.77 peanut 3-speed or the Top Loader 3.03 big chunk of iron 3-speed.

I thought maybe that it would have to do with what month your car was built in but I was having an offline conversation with @fritschn yesterday and he laid that theory to waste. I mentioned the wrong plate debacle and my theory that it was based on when you car was assembled; mine was born June 20, 1966 but his was born July 1966 and it has the Dagenham 2.77 3-speed transmission. The kit I bought is the perfect fit for his car.

Anyway, after too much coffee and a lack of more productive hobbies, I figured out which kit California Pony Cars carries that is specific for 1966 Mustangs with the L6 200 and Top Loader 3.03 transmission.

My criteria:

• Adapter plate TRA-650-526
• Cross member TRA-656-522
• Slip yoke TRA-650-517
• Transmission insulator mount TRA-650-521

The CPC kit for 65/66 has all the right parts. It’s a kit for the 289 V8 cars and it doesn’t say that it works with the C7ZA-6394-A bell housing but since the adapter plate TRA-650-526 is specified for that bell, it’s obviously the correct kit. I’ve let the guy I’ve been in contact with know my findings and recommended they update the website docs to correct the page so other unfortunate souls won’t lose several weeks and probably a minimum $100 in shipping and fees.

Here is the correct full conversion kit for a 66 Mustang with Top Loader 3.03 3-speed: https://calponycars.com/products/1965-1966-t-5-5-speed-conversion-kit-1?_pos=8&_sid=ba9c2387b&_ss=r

 

[awasson]

Also… Maybe @powerband you can confirm or prove otherwise but during my caffeine fueled research, I found kits that assumed one would use the late model 83 - 93 Fox body bell housing instead of adapting the original bell. Is that even possible with a dual pattern L6 or only with the 289 V8 cars?

I mean, if that is possible, I know where I can get a fox body V8 bell housing and I’ll be back on the road very soon, although, I’d have to convert to a cable clutch.

Another idea I had, was to take the 4-cylinder bell housing I have and slice off the back of it, index it on my existing bell housing and make my own damn adapter plate. Again, I’ll be back to driving but with 5 gears in a day or so. @powerband talk me down

 

[powerband]

only familiar with what I've attempted ...
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Only the 250 cid small block six can use regular 'Small Block Ford V8' - 289 / 302 / 5.0 Windsor V8' Bellhouse Pattern W/ 157 tooth FW and Bellhouse.
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AFAIS all 'Dual Drilled' 170/200 small sixes can only use early small pattern 3/4 spd Bellhouse (used with 2.77 and Dagenham) or later large pattern with unique small six FW and Bellhouse that uses later 'Toploader' transmissions
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'Large Pattern" C7ZA was used typically with 'Toploader' 3 speed and 3OTT shifter. In my '63 Wagon is a '71 Maverick 3OTT C7ZA Bellhouse W/adapter plate on a C8DE 170 with SBF V8 (84 Mustang) T5 transmission.
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.'61/250 Comet has a C5DA V8 BH / Adapter plate and T5 and '74/250 Mav' uses V8 T5 Bellhouse with T5..
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Maverick 250 has E3ZR - V8 T5 BH with cable pull sawed off and pedal Z-bar fulcrum modification
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hav fun
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[awasson]

@powerband, Thanks I realized that the thing that would probably stop me from using a fox body V8 bell is the starter position and type of starter. My 200 block puts the starter at the top of the block, just under the rear exhaust bank. The V8 Bell puts it at the bottom.

If I have the bandwidth this weekend, I might see about cutting the back off of the existing 4-cylinder 1993 bell housing and building my own adapter to at least test fit the transmission while I wait for the correct adapter. I am certain I can get it correctly oriented and I’ve got loads of time.

 

[powerband]

'smores :
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DS Tunnel big hole in Falcon picture is where the Dagenham 4 Spd OEM separate unique Hump - Bumpout was attached for 4 Spd Dagenham linkage clearance. Early Falcons have body crossmember in unfortunate location for T5 swaps as do Mavericks' . The Dagenham OEM forward location of shifter is also about where 'S10 Tailshaft' T5 conversion and swap would locate shifter.
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. . .
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'DUAL DRILLED' BH pattern small block 200's remained in production thru 70's because Ford's better idea was to continue to use the Bellhouse - SMALL-PATTERN and unique 200/C4 Bellhouse for the ubiquitous Ford C4 - 3Spd Automatic .
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'76 Comet 200 with C4 on 'Small Pattern BH'

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have fun
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