Corteco Head Gasket Thickness

[CZLN6]

Howdy All:

In doing ungoing research for the Handbook I just got this info on the Corteco head gasket for the 200/250 engines.
********************

"David ,

Tthe true compressed thickness for that gasket should be .053 !

Thanks !

Tim Ensign
Product Technician, Gaskets
Corteco, Milan
Phone: 419/499-6084
Fax:  419/499-2438
Email: te@fngp.com
www.corteco-na.com
***********************

I inquired to Corteco because I just got two Corteco gaskets from Mike at FSPP. When I measured them them cam out to .055". I was skeptical that they would compress to a word-of-mouth reported compressed thickness of .038". At least now I know what the factory specs are. The last piece will be a real world measurement from a used gasket.

Corteco lists a performance head gasket for the 240/300 engines with a compressed thickness of .038". That may have been the source for the confusion. They do not list a performance gasket for the 200/250 engines on their website.

AzMike may be along with more info. I'm wondering if it may be possible that Corteco might produce a "Performance" head gasket for our engines if enough demand existed. I'm going to pose the idea to Tim Ensign in a reply.

So, to date, the NAPA Victor 9310VC, @ .044" compressed remains the best choice of easily available aftermarket head gaskets.

Just thought some of you would like to know. There's no such thing as too much information.

Adios, David

 

[wsa111]

David, I also checked the corteco gaskets, its a shame they are so thick. The quality & sealing of the gasket looked great, just as good as the fel-pro, but they are also too thick.

If you want a new gasket NAPA sells the victor 3910VC.

I also have many NOS ford composite gaskets left part # C9DE6051C they are .048 uncompressed & in the .042 compressed area.

Buy the way they are for sale, PM me

I also have 2 NOS 144-170 steel shim gaskets FEL-PRO 7916, again for sale. William

 

[powerband]

Thanks David and WSA111,
This is the information "we" can use. As you know, the calculations for CR and milling are critical to performance and drivability. Having all the correct gasket info before starting is essential. We measured combustion chamber volume a number of times for target CR with the HG thickness a required factor while reworking a head for the latest project.

The head was milled to C.C. volume of 48cc's and installed on a 170 - so with the Felpro at @ .044 I would get @ 8.7:1 and a little less with the Corteco @ .055 (stock deck height and somewhat large gasket bore diameter of 3.68.) Instead I went with a FelPro #7916 steel shim gasket with a compressed height @ .027 to achieve a CR of @ 9.2:1.

I hope to use the head on a 250 I'm building but the CR with the 3910 gasket of .044 CR approaches @ 11.2:1 (*) . With the Corteco gasket of .055 I would be at @ 10.9:1 (*).

(*) I'm figuring the 250 with a stock deck height @ .025 and 7cc dished pistons - please correct me if this is wrong)


I got the machinist I've known for many years "excited" about the small sixes after having him do the machining work on a D7xx head (mostly as per the Falcon Six Performance manual I left with him annotated and highlited). He was amazed at the depth of info available to maximize their potential.
He recently contacted me and I forwarded him info on port adapter sources from this group and also on a 3X1 Offy intake he was working on that was for a different log head than the customer supplied.

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[AzCoupe]

I was first told a stock gasket compresses to .053, and a performance gasket compresses to .038. Then they came back a week later and told me they only had one gasket, which compressed to .038. Which is the one I was suppose to be ordering. I got the information from a guy name Joe. :

I guess I need to call them again tomorrow, as it would be nice to know the correct size once and for all. It is not listed in their online catalog, which is why I e-mailed them back in April, requesting the information. If in fact it is .053, then I'll see if I can convince them to do the .038 as well. Sorry for the confusion.

We also contacted Cometic about gaskets in different thicknesses. At the SEMA show, they told us they could make them in any quantity, even a one off. But when we e-mailed to get more info and pricing, we were told something quite different. They now say we need to purchase a minimum of 150 gaskets (for each specific thickness) at a price of $125-$200 each. With a minimum order of $5000.

EDIT: I just sent Tim an e-mail asking about this. Mainly to let him know I was a bit upset about receiving incorrect information. I still have copies of the e-mails. I pushed pretty hard for the possibility of a "Performance" gasket, so we will see what his response is.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back All:

Great info. Thanks to all.

Mike- That's why I like to do my own measuring on both new, and whenever possible, and on a used gasket. I've emailed Tim back as well. I hope he doesn't feel we're ganging up on him. He may decide there IS a market for a "perormance" gasket for the 200/250 family. Let's keep in touch on this one.

PB- The deck height on a 250 is typically in the .100" to .150" range. Depending on year and advertized CR. FoMoCO didn't alter combustion chamber size or piston configuration to lower CR on the 250. The variable was, for the most part, deck height. Unless you reduce/eliminate this excessive deck height, your CR will be too low for performance and will have absolutely NO quench effect. Do a search on 250 deck height. I posted several approaches to dealing with this problem on building a performance 250.
You might want to check with william about acquiring one of his NOS FoMoCo C9DE 6051 C gaskets

Also, check your figures on gasket thickness. Here's actual measurements that I got for-
FelPro 7916 PT-1, New .055". compressed at 70-75Lbs trq- .050".
note- the 7916 is NOT a steel shim gasket. It is a composite type gasket.
Victor(NAPA) 3910VC, new .046", compressed at 70-75 lbs- .044".

William- I jsut got back in from the garage, Brrrrrr. I rechecked/ micrometer the thickness of the #C9DE gaskets I've got. Please recheck the measurements on your NOS OEM FoMoCo gasket #C9DE-6051 C. The actual measurements I got were-
New- .037"
Used- .030"

You posted-
New- .048"
compressed- .042"

It is also my understanding that some kind of gasket sealant is needed on installation of these C9 NOS gaskets. Is that your understanding too?

Since it sounds like Mike's hopeful news about Cometic is out the window, we'll have to be doubly hopeful that Corteco will come through with a thinner, performance gasket for us.

Adios, David

 

[wsa111]

David, I just re-measured the C9DE-6051 C NOS conposite gaskets using a mechanical micrometer rather than my digital.

I measured .048 uncompressed @ the bead & .040 at the composite.

The Fel-Pro 7916 for the 144-170 engines is a steel shim and is .038 @ the un-compressed bead & .021 on the flat part of the shim. William

 

[Russ]

David's original post re: head gasket names NAPA Victor 9310 VC. Wsa111's reply refers to NAPA 3910 VC. Are we talking about the same gasket with one number being a typo. or are they two different numbers? Which number is for the .o44 compressed thickness?
thanks,
Russ.

 

[wsa111]

Russ, Davids post is on the victor NAPA 3910 VC is .044 compressed.

My post is on the NOS ford composite & the 144-170 fel-pro steel shim.

Hope this clarifies the situation. William

 

[Lazy JW]

...Corteco lists a performance head gasket for the 240/300 engines with a compressed thickness of .038". That may have been the source for the confusion...

Adios, David

Seeing the specs for a 300 head gasket with .038" thickeness got me all excited so I looked up the link to the Corteco website. Had to download their catalog. Not quite sure what I'm looking at, seems to be a .015" shim gasket?

I tried to copy& paste it in here but I'm not computer literate enough to make it work.
Joe

Edit: But they also list a head gasket for the 1600cc air-cooled Volkswagen Truck; which uses no head gasket at all :roll:

 

[addo]

I'm surprised nobody's tried bluing and scraping a head/block. The ultimate in quench and serviceability?

 

[AzCoupe]

Well, I had to do it. I sent Tim (from Corteco) an e-mail requesting they reconsider producing a performance gasket. I figured I would really need to work on him, so here's what I did.

I told him all about the new parts we are working on, and the various manufacturers who have agreed to produce them. I made sure to mention the big names, Eagal, Scat, Ross, Flowmaster, Pacesetter, Magnuson, Jessel, Harland Sharp, Mondello's, CHI, Fast, JP, Yella Terra, etc.

Then I attached a bunch of the best pics I have, of our cars and the hot inlines that provide the power. I finished off the letter with three video's, Kellys 12 second blast, Mustangaro's Bakersfield video, and Geezer doing a great burn.

Here's the reply I got today:

I cant believe I am getting interested in this whole 200 6cyl thing! I am going to need a cylinder head, preferably one of your new aluminum ones, to do some testing with. I will return the unit back to you when we are finished. If we do this would you want to purchase the head gaskets in bulk from us?

Thanks,

Tim Ensign
Product Technician, Gaskets
Corteco, Milan
Phone: 419/499-6084
Fax: 419/499-2438
Email: te@fngp.com

arty:

I've been on a roll lately, convincing the major suppliers to produce the parts we so despertely need. Last year, I couldn't get any of them to budge. Looks like I can add Corteco to the list.
Hummm....... who's next.

 

[addo]

Hummm....... who's next.

Simple. The Fenderâ„¢ guitar company. A limited run of "Six in Line" Stratocasters with fancy graphics. Then, even if the car quits you can play the blues.

 

[JackFish]

Hummm....... who's next.

Simple. The Fenderâ„¢ guitar company. A limited run of "Six in Line" Stratocasters with fancy graphics. Then, even if the car quits you can play the blues.

Although not as famous or playable, they did issue a Mustang, of which I have a bass model. So how about a Mustang reissue?

 

[xctasy]

I've been on a roll lately, convincing the major suppliers to produce the parts we so despertely need. Last year, I couldn't get any of them to budge. Looks like I can add Corteco to the list.
Hummm....... who's next.

Never want to minimise your stirling efforts, Mike.


Everything look great. And remember, I'm a sceptic, who says you should never, ever make a new part unless the econmies of scale allow you to pay off the risks.

One thing you got going for you is about 4 million engines in the States alone, and a bunch of interested gear heads all over the world. Kinda hard to mess up on the economics, even if only 10% of the cars remain. Over in Aussie or New Zeland, companies like Yella Terra or Grifiths Speed would kill, no, murder, to get the amount of market share you have at your disposal.

Actually, the kill rate for most old Fords anywhere in the world is about a 95% of them having a 10 to 15 year service life before it is scraped. That's a common number for most cars made between the 60's and 80's. Guess what?The engines remain around for a lot longer!

If you were selling Comet 'fenders', you'd have some problems making the grade in return for your investment.

What you have here is a Proprierty Advantage. This is where you make everyone else aware of existing inventory and tooling and components. You can cut an existing head, break a few con rods, saw a few blocks, detonate a few pistons, and generally test to destruction in a way you can't with brand spanking new bits. You become a facilitator to sucess, sort of like a Real Estate Agent in Florida. You just have to let the market and the seller get to know each other, and then stand back and take the commision for your risks.

If its domestic, then everyone will want to get in.

You've taken a step into the need for great ignition systems. Now people will gravitate towards better induction. The better heads and exhasts and cams make these periferal consumables a huge proffit maker. The other thing is no one will buy the carb on its own unless it has some kind of support from a bunch of fanatical but friendly people who have done it themselves.

Next suppliers will probably be an intermediate bolt on Holley 2300 2-bbl, Holley Weber 5200 2-bbl, Pony carbs polised Autolite 2100 or Motorcraft 2150 for our log headed engines. Some of these carbs should cary EO numbers for emissions compliance. I'd like to dream of a 50 states legal rebuilt engine which meets Federal regs for 1984, so you could get a fully legal engine for a reasonable price.

Unlike the V8 guys, six cylinder hop-ups focus on a delightfully slow, well considered progresssive lunch. It starts with the periferals (hor'devrs), and then gets into the whole enchilada. Sort of a Monterey Bay Bird Festival with falcon as the main course.

Enjoy it, and make sure you charge the right price. Many times we price on realistic sales with a fair margin. Sales may end up being much greater than you realise. That's always better than aiming too low at the start. With the distributors you have, they will remain on the market for years.

One other thing. People are becoming a lot more discerning. They need good products becasue the performance alternatives for Mustangs and Falcons are much more expensive. Even a good 5.0 or a later block into an earlier car is quite a lot of work. You Americans are right up there with the Australians in being able to keep old engines around your farm or property, where as in New Zealand, we have stoped stroing up old cars. It's hard to imagine sources of good core 200 or 250 engines every drying up on you in the next 20 years in the US or Australia.


Deano