Daily driver questions.....

[HotRodLarry]

Okay, I've decided I'm gonna keep my '83 fox-LTD. Here's a couple questions...

1. What would I go with as far as rear gears to wake the car up a little. I'm pretty sure I have the 7.25" rear, but I don't know what I have for a ratio.It's nice to drive something slow, but this is almost embarassing. The car is a dog as far as acceleration is concerned.

2. Would a 500-cfm Holley 2-bbl carb work well with the 200 as a daily driver? the 1946 carb on the car now is working, but not very well, plus I can find the Holleys everywhere around here.

 

[Asa]

if you have a fox, i'm pretty sure you'd have an 8.8", they look much like the 7.25"
not completely sure though

what 500cfm carb are you talking about? the 2300? if so i believe that MustangGeezer has done that swap before... but don't quote me on that
to really wake it up, i'd get it to breath better on exhaust and carb though

i assume you're talking about a direct mount?

also, i believe that some of the Throttle Body injection systems had the 2300's bolt pattern, if you're so inclined

 

[Inline6Merc]

As far as gears go, a ratio of 3.50 would give good off the line response but would hurt gas milage a bit. A gear ratio of 3.20 would still have some steam with better milage. A 500cfm carb on a stock engine, thats way overkill. I would suggest getting a 270cfm holley/weber progressive carb if your engine is stock. Headers would also be a good upgrade. The 270cfm holley/weber would give better performance and proably better milage.

later,

Curtis

 

[HotRodLarry]

So maybe like a 350 cfm carb?I rebuilt the stock carb and I don't think it helped. I know I am going to run into clearance issues with this set-up so I plan on cutting an opening in the hood and stick the air cleaner up a little (plus, the cold outside air won't hurt).

I was looking into headers, but with the "take-off" cat anything would be better that whats on the car now.Also, this car weighs probably 4,000lbs, I will be gutting some interior to save weight( back seat, spare tire, jack)

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Larry:

There are four areas that are holding back you '83 200.
1. A very high rear gear in a 7.7 or 8.8 rear end. The ratio with a C4, or C5 would likly be 2.79:1. Check the id plate on the driver's side door jam for the axle code, to be sure, or crawl under and read the metalic tag on the housing. A 3.0 or 3.20 is a nice compromise ratio for all-around driving.
2. A very incumbered Holley one barrel. The #1946 is the one of the last carbs used before FI replaced them. This carb has vacuum, electronic and temp links and senders, all of which detract from efficient air flow. The air cleaner system is one of the best for helping with a quick warm-up and then getting cooler air to a warm engine.
The Holley 500 two barrel is not the best choice, with out a well balance engine package to go with it. Even then it would require specific tuning to get it to deliver satisfactory performance on the street. A Holley 350 is a better choice, but would still require a balanced engine package and specific tuning to reach its potential.
3. A horribly restrictive exhaust starting with the '83 exhaust manifold to the quicklite cat converter, and on down. Best solution is a header and performance exhaust system. Second best is a '68 manifold and performance system.
4. The cam timing has been retarded to add low end torque at the expense of HP and any thrill from rpms above about 4,000. The best solution is to replace the cam gear with pre '72 pieces that are straight up.

Finally, know that your CR is down from earlier 200s. Doing a valve job that included a three angle valve seat, back cutting the intakes, milling the head about .075" if using a composite head gasket, would also make a nice improvement.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but just "slappin on a two barrel" will not get you to your goal.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

You are all wrong about the rear end, what he has is most likely a 7.5"

The only cars with 8.8's were H.O. and SVO cars......and then not until 1986

The Holley 1946 is what I use on my turbo car. It can be made to work if you know good carb theory.

If I were you?? 3.73 gears and some sort of overdrive trans. Headwork and different exhaust is a must.

Don't overlook the motorcraft carbs....I really hate the Holleys myself. The Motorcraft/Autolite is a much better design. My next turbo engine will have a plain 'ol Motorcraft 2 bbl from the 70's. (actually the 1.08 carb I have is from a 1969 302 powered F-100)

You want acceleration? Build a turbo kit like some of the "crazies" on here!

.

 

[HotRodLarry]

Thanks guys, My idea of going with Holley instead of Autolite or Motorcraft is simply that I have more experience with those style carbs. Which motor should I look for to get the cam gear? Maybe early 70's Mustang?

So, it looks like headers definately, changing the cam gear, and a rear gear swap would be a good start. Also, what about tires and wheels? I have 14" wheels with I think 70 or 80 series snow tires right now. Would changing tires or a different size wheel help out as well?

 

[JackFish]

The rear in my wagon is a 7.5 with a 3.08. That ratio might work for you.
With the valves in at 4* advance it's got lots of bottom end and good pick-up.
It's top-end I have a severe lack of.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back All:

My bad. The rear end is most likely a coil sprung, 7.5, which replaced the 7.25 in the mid to late '70s.

Your plans for the rear gear, exhaust and cam gear will be most helpful. If you were to ask your parts man for the cam gear from a '68 Mustang 200, you'd be safe. Be sure to verify what gear you have before you get too far with your plan to change it.

Linc- Most carbs can be made to perform in most situations. What I was refering to is an OEM '83 Holley #1946 in a stock application. The modifications to get "Good" performance will not be in the normal, street driving, range. It is not the fault of the carb. It is because of all the crutches laid on it to meet EPA requirements of the day.

Larry- About the only real differences between the 2 barrel Holleys (2300) and the Autolites (2100) is the fact that Holleys are still being made and are easy to get parts for. The two tune very similiar. The pluses for the Autolites is that they came in a variety of sizes, have annular discharge venturi boosters, better bowl venting and no gasket lines below the level of the fuel in the bowl (less prone to leaking). They are a simpler, more sturdy version of the Holley 2300s. They were used on many FoMoCo V8 engines from the late '50s to '84. Some of the parts made for the Holley fit the Autolites, the Power Valves, for example. Rebuild kits are easily and cheaply available for both. Both would require knowledge and specific tuning for your application.

The Autolite 1.08 Linc mentioned is a great size for a mild street engine. It is rated at 287 cfm, compared to aproximately 180 cfm for your stock Holley. The Holley 350 (list #7448) is rated at 350 cfm. I've run an Autolite 1.08 on my well-modded 250 for a couple of years now, direct mounted to a modified log. I will be going to a Holley 500 (#4412) soon.

Larger diameter tires will raise gearing even more. I'd stick with standard size recommendation in your case, or possibley one size smaller. Also the larger the tire the heavier it becomes. Less weight = more performance. That is expecially true with tires- that are both unsprung weight and a spinning weight. Bigger, wider tires are mostly for "The look" on the street. I'd air them up to the "Max load PSI" cast into the tire sidewall, plus 10% for best performance and mileage.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

The pluses for the Autolites is that they came in a variety of sizes, have annular discharge venturi boosters, better bowl venting and no gasket lines below the level of the fuel in the bowl (less prone to leaking). They are a simpler, more sturdy version of the Holley 2300s.

 

[80Stang]

Very knowledgeable answers here, so I just add in some info pieces and my opinion:

1. Your rear end is 7.5. One of the advantages of owning a fox-body is that you can swap it to 8.8 trac-lock cheap and easy. 7.5 and 8.8 axles are interchangeable, and for both there are loads of internal parts available like gears, locks, 5-lug conversion parts and such. For a daily driver, 3.08 is good, 3.20 is still good and if your tranny is OD, 3.55 is way good...

2. I like Autolites, but since last summer I've tuned the 350 Holley. What it gives more over Autolite is greater adjustability on the accelerator pump and possibility to use two-stage power valves, and of course the parts around it are everywhere as there are leagues of people running vee-eights with Holley 4150s. BTW, just reached the same MPG with the Holley than with Autolite on the same engine, or the Holley 1946 with the previous engine version, so that fights back for those who say a Holley can't be economical. Neither way you go, have it direct attached, and have all the other components up to the same level of your 'big' carb. Have fun!

 

[HotRodLarry]

I thought the 8.8's would be able fit the car, just wasn't sure. Here's another question for you guys. I just scored a set of 4-lug mag wheels. 13x5's for the front and 13x8's for the rear. It looks like I'm going to lose around 3/4's of an inch or so going from 70 series 14" wheels to possibly 60 series on the 13" wheels. Should I take that into consideration when looking for a set of rear gears?

 

[Anonymous]

You need to worry more about finding tires that fit those rims!

 

[wallaka]

Yep...225 and above 13" tires are getting scarce.

 

[HotRodLarry]

So a would a 205/60R13 fit the 8" wheel? One guy I talked to at a tire shop yesterday said that possibly the measurements I got were from the outside of the bead, not the inside.

 

[wallaka]

By my calculations, a 205 section width is 8.07 inches. It should fit perfectly.

 

[Anonymous]

By my calculations, a 205 section width is 8.07 inches. It should fit perfectly.

That isn't possible!

Both of the 8" wide rims on my F-150, and my Mustang, have WIDE tires on them.

The F-150 has 31-10.50 by 15 and the Mustang has 27.0 x 10.0 by 15 slicks.

BOTH times, the tire shop had a HELL OF A TIME trying to get the beads seated. With one side seated, the other bead is still 3" away from the rim!

 

[HotRodLarry]

I'm gonna scrap the idea of 13" wheels. Getting tires to fit them is one reason, the other would be I would have issues with calipers and brake drums, etc. I don't want to start shaving my calipers just so the car will look cool.

 

[wallaka]

By my calculations, a 205 section width is 8.07 inches. It should fit perfectly.

That isn't possible!

Both of the 8" wide rims on my F-150, and my Mustang, have WIDE tires on them.

The F-150 has 31-10.50 by 15 and the Mustang has 27.0 x 10.0 by 15 slicks.

BOTH times, the tire shop had a HELL OF A TIME trying to get the beads seated. With one side seated, the other bead is still 3" away from the rim!

There's a huge difference between short-sidewall, street tires and floppy-sidewall slicks and A/T tires. I worked in a tire store for 3 years...I'd much rather deal with a stiffer, shorter tire. I've never had as much trouble as with large, off-road tires. The largest I've ever dealt with is 44-15x15" and they're almost impossible to mount. The sidewalls on those can overlap they're so flexy. Drag slicks are the same way..a pain in the butt. You have to use a special air tank or burn carb cleaner or ether to get them to seat sometimes. I've mounted a 225-50R13 on an 8" wheel before. Not the easiest thing I've ever done, but not the hardest.

 

[Anonymous]

I've mounted a 225-50R13 on an 8" wheel before.

I have never even heard of that tire size. I'll bet that size is as rare as hens teeth today.