Engine Upgrade

[Vin Man]

Obviously I am new to this board and haven't gotten to know the regulars yet. I have been an active member on www.ridingarizona.com for over a year - my other hobby is riding my dirt bike.

However, I have learned through my time on that forum that people have their opinions and like to share them. That's what makes a forum work!

I really do appreciate the input. Regarding Pony Carbs, I will say this: The carb I purchased from them has worked beautifully for me. I've had it for about 4 years on my Mustang. I had called them one day late last year (and left a message on their machine) to ask if they sold anything for the carb that would function by increasing the idle when I turned on the A/C. I know newer carbs, like the ones I had on my 73 F100, had a device connected to a relay that would up the idle when a/c was turned on. The person at PC returned my call just to tell me that they didn't have such a device. We then just had a very nice discussion about carbs in general and that's when he mentioned his dedication to the Autolite 1100. No selling to do on his part as I had already made my purchase.

Anyway, that story aside, I'm sure there will be times when I agree with posts and disagree with posts. Again - that's what makes a forum work. Discussion and debate.

I'm not trying to sell anyone anything - just want to share my experience and knowledge and hear about yours.

 

[Vin Man]

Some decisions I've made:

I want a smooth ride around town and want to be able to run the cheap gas (87 octane).

Regarding the Aussie head, I'm going to take it to a mahcine shop, have it cleaned and inspected. I'm going to keep it stock and not port/polished. I am going to have the port diverted installed for the exhaust. Need to get one (need to find this part). If valve job is needed, I'll have it done and only add hardened seats if there has been deterioration and they are needed. I'll have it milled to ensure it is flat and can mate up to the engine block.

Regarding cam, I think I'm going to go with the 260. Very mild. I want a smooth ride.

Exhaust - headers definitely. I plan on using a two into one muffler with dual outlets.

Decisions left to make:

Carb is still undecided. The intake I have is also made for the head. It is set up for a 2bbl. I am contemplating a 4bbl as I expect I would get better gas mileage around town when only on the 2bbls, but would have the benefit of the full 4bbls when I need it.

Short block - haven't decided yet if I am going to have mine rebuilt or just do an engine exchange with Five Star. Either way, I'll need to supply the cam.

I suspect I'll wind up with a compression ratio around 9:1.
I plan to keep the stock rear end.

Thanks so far for the input. I've found this site very helpful, along with input from Mike at Classic Inlines.

Another step completed. I've decided to stick with the C4 tranny and not think about the AOD upgrade at this time. That will be a project for the future.

I've searched this forum and, from what I can tell, more people say the gain isn't worth the pain of a port divider. I don't want to spend the money on a "maybe" improvement. I'll skip it for now.

Really leaning towards a 2bbl. I figure, try the 2bbl. If not good enough, buy the adapter and try someone else's (it would have to be a good friend ) 4bbl and see if I like it. If so, buy my own 4bbl.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

I got a brand new cigarette lighter in the mail yesterday from Auto Krafters. Plugged that sumabitch in and got at least 4 more ponies at the rear now. Thats my suggestion. Or rocket fuel. Or do like I do and drive near retirement communities. It just seems like you're going faster when you pass all the pensioners with their blinkers still on, and you don't have to upgrade anything!

 

[Bort62]

My problem pony lies in that they tend to deny the notion that any other option other than the one they provide is feasible. They don't just say they think their option is better - they flat out tell you that a 2bbl WILL NOT WORK on a 200. It's laughable..

It's an arrogant attitude that suggests either ignorance or dishonesty.

Neither of which is particuarily attractive in a company I am looking to buy something from.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Vinny:

I'm with you! I think the Holley 390 would make an ideal carb for a street, modified 200. Has it been done? Not to my knowledge. That should not stop you. IF you were to follow Ian's Logic or Jon's (Pony Carb) We'd never get past where we (were) are. "If you always do what you've always done, you always get what you always got!"

It is easier to follow in someone else's foot steps, but where would we be if not for the Chris Columbus' of the world.

I used a 390 Holley on my '65 Chevy II with a 250, on an Offy manifold. It was incredibly tuneable. I did have to get inside to enlarge the idle restrictions though. It will be a challenge to get it mounted too as proximity to the valve cover will limit clearance of the secondary bowl. I hope you do it and share your results with us.

FYI- on carb CFM capacity stock '66 1100 Autolite- 185cfm, Pony's performance 1100- 215 CFM, Generic H/W 5200 235 to 270 CFM, depending on year and application, Autolite 2100 2 barrels range from '65 289, 1.14 - 300 cfm to Early 351 V8 applications 1.21-351 cfm, to Holley 2300 (#7448) - 350. All have advantages and short comings.

A Holley #8007 390 4 barrel would, therotically, give you the driveability and economy of the H/W 5200 and the performance of the Holley 350. Nice!!!!!

On the port divider. The only empirical data I've ever seen was from Clifford. They claim a 15% increase! I don't know if that included the header or what else. My own rationale for using it came from some experiments with a flow bench- With and without the divider, and with and without the Stock Cast manifold and with header piping. The best results came with the port divider in place, either with the cast exhaust manifold or with a header pipe- the header pipe was the best. Flow became very close to other exhaust ports. Please note flow bench data is not necessarily the same as HP or street performance. If the divider generated a flow increase of say 10% on the bench on 2 of 6 ports- that might equal 1 or 2 % power increase @ peak HP at the rear wheels. That is not earth shaking!!! Lastly, I felt if I was spending close to $400 getting a header coated and installed, I wanted to get all I could out of it, including the divider. I've had my divider in and on the car for going on 6 years now- with no problems.

Many who have experienced problems with the divider coming loose have not followed the enclosed instruction to have the divider hand-fitted snuggly into place then welded in three locations. I have yet to hear of anyone who followed those directions and had quality welding done having problems. IF you plan to slop fit it, glue it in, braze it in, or ?????? don't be surprized if it comes loose and rattles.

I admire your ability to sift through all the opinions and biases you've received and to stick with it and to stay objective. After all is said and done, it's your project. Keep us posted on your project.

Adios, David

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

Back when I had my Oz head and 4bbl modified intake I picked up a Motorcraft 4bbl that was rated for about 390cfm. IIRC it was for a Ford truck with a 360 V8.

I only mentioned it because I got the carb off Ebay for about $40 and it worked great on a friends 302.

 

[Bort62]

I'm with you! I think the Holley 390 would make an ideal carb for a street, modified 200. Has it been done? Not to my knowledge. That should not stop you. IF you were to follow Ian's Logic or Jon's (Pony Carb) We'd never get past where we (were) are. "If you always do what you've always done, you always get what you always got!"

Hey, I didn't say it wouldn't work - I just said I did not know if it would or not

By all means it seems like it should.

 

[Anonymous]

The only benefit I've ever seen from the port divider is it gave you more surface area around that portion of the head (on mine anyway) and it tended to help prevent the header gaskets from burning out there quite as frequently as they had before the installation of it.

No hp gain that I ever noticed though...

Later,

Doug

 

[Vin Man]

Sounds like the port divider can, if installed properly, yield a benefit. However, I'm going to go without it. I'm not trying to squeeze every ounce of power that I can out of this engine - in fact, I have been exceptionally happy with the performance of the stock engine.

I have to admit, until I acquired this vehicle, I was always a big block guy, with an occassional 289 V8. Yet, I have driven and enjoyed this car more than all the others I have had combined. Its reliability has really impressed me and once I got a good carb, timing and vacuum right, it has really been a pleasure. Adding aftermarket A/C in Phoenix was a necessity, and I was really worried about overheating - but again no problems there.

I want to put the Aussie head on for a few reasons:
1 - I have it. I should use it.
2- I want more performance without having to get even worse gas mileage than I have now.
3- I enjoy working on the car and its been a few years since I've done an engine pull. The water pump in the car is bad now, I've got a little money saved up, so I figure this was the time to do it.

I dropped the head off at a machine shop about an hour ago and they'll call me early next week and let me know what it needs.

I'll keep everyone posted and keep the feedback coming! Thanks.

 

[Bort62]

As far as economy is concerned, most have reported a several MPG gain after switching to either the HW 5200 or Holley 2300 from the stock 1 bbl.

Not sure where the "ponyized" Autolite falls in, however.

 

[Vin Man]

As far as economy is concerned, most have reported a several MPG gain after switching to either the HW 5200 or Holley 2300 from the stock 1 bbl.

Not sure where the "ponyized" Autolite falls in, however.

I'm not familiar with the HW5200. However, the way you described it earlier as "progressive" really appeals to me. I'll have to find some info on this one.

 

[sp_alloy_head]

Here's a Holley/Weber 5200

stolen from another thread & Mr. Powerband

 

[Vin Man]

So the 5200 is also a Holley? Doesn't look like a Holley. From what I've read on a couple of other posts, it is a Weber sold under Holley name. OK. Also, looks like the 2300 has a manual choke. I would want an electric choke.

I'm going to read some more posts on the 5200. Are they easily available? Checker/Autozone or do I need to spend a fortune?

 

[sp_alloy_head]

Stovebolt sells rebuilt 5200s for $65-ish plus $15 for an adapter. Sorry I don't know stovebolt's web address.

 

[Vin Man]

Stovebolt sells rebuilt 5200s for $65-ish plus $15 for an adapter. Sorry I don't know stovebolt's web address.

Is the adapter for getting it to fit a Ford? I found their website because in another post, someone else mentioned they put on the 5200 and listed Stovebolt as the supplier. http://www.stovebolt.com/

When I went to the site, it is advertised as a GM site.

 

[Bort62]

Stovebolt sells the adaptor, yes.

The carb doesn't care if its GM, ford or ferrari - as long as it sucks

 

[Vin Man]

I don't think I had the right website. I'll keep looking. Definitely they way I want to start - under $100. The 390 CFM Holley 4bbl is $500 at Checker. Ouch.

Will I need the adapter if I'm using the intake made for the Aussie head? The intake is designed for a 2bbl.

Here are some pics of the intake I have. I believe it is made of alum as it is very light weight.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn17 ... 00x600.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn17 ... 00x600.jpg

 

[Bort62]

I'm not sure what you need to do to fit the HW on the OZ intake. It shouldn't be too difficult but it's certainly not the same adapter as to bolt to the log.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy any perf. parts @ checker. Way too expensive.

www.summitracing.com

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Your 390 CFM squarebore for $350.

stovebolt is a chevy site, it just so happens he sells carburetors too. I've never bought anything from him so I don't know where to go etc but I'm sure someone here will help ya.

 

[Vin Man]

I'm not sure what you need to do to fit the HW on the OZ intake. It shouldn't be too difficult but it's certainly not the same adapter as to bolt to the log.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy any perf. parts @ checker. Way too expensive.

www.summitracing.com

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Your 390 CFM squarebore for $350.

stovebolt is a chevy site, it just so happens he sells carburetors too. I've never bought anything from him so I don't know where to go etc but I'm sure someone here will help ya.

Where did you get your HW?

 

[Bort62]

Don't have one