Finally installing new cam!

C

cfmustang

Famous Member
Over a year ago I bought the 264 110* single pattern cam from Mike along with the double roller timing set and new new damper doctor. This was to replace my existing Clifford 272 (although the last garage that rebuilt the engine said it was a 280) cam. Ever since the rebuild a few years ago, I have been less than impressed with that cam in my setup. It was simply too much overlap, too little vac, etc. The weird thing is that before that rebuild the cam wasn't nearly as bad, so either the Rhodes lifters that were in it prior to the rebuild actually worked or the cam was reinstalled with its timing retarded.

Anyway, with the new baby at home time is at a premium so this morning I dropped the Mustang off a new garage that really seems to know what they are doing (thanks for the referral John!!!) and hopefully today or tomorrow at the latest I will have it back.

I can't wait to see what kind of a difference it makes in the car. If not performance wise, at least driveability wise. That massive lope the old cam had sounded cool, but that was about all it was good for...
 
The rebuild with the 272 cam (or 280, which ever one it was) did you have the stock time chain, and did you have the timing set at 12-8 degrees? Just curious, I put in a 272 and stock timing chain. 12 degrees BFTDC, I guess I don't know the advantage of the double roller, except stronger.
 
I got the call and it is ready for pick up this afternoon. I'll give a report this evening.

As for the rebuild a couple of years ago with the old cam:

That garage installed a new (stock? - I didn't supply it so I can only assume it is) timing set and I assume reinstalled the cam straight-up (they never asked - that should have been the first sign they weren't the best garage right there). When my dad originally installed it, I know he installed it straight-up. If your asking about ignition timing, I kept that at or around 12 BDC.

Since the cam didn't change, but the timing set and lifters did I think it was either that the original Rhodes lifters really did effectively lower duration at idle or the timing set the garage installed was bad and was retarding the cam timing. I'll probably never know.

The advantage of the of the double roller is its strength and the fact that it has multiple key ways so that you can adjust your cam timing.
 
Ahhhhh.

It is like driving a completely different car. Yes, the top-fuel dragster lope is gone and I will miss it a little. However, it no longer shakes and struggles at stoplights. It starts and shuts down easier. It is just generally smoother at idle and under acceleration.

It is amazing how much more streetable it is and how much more solid (less rattle-y) the car feels. The car still has a faint lope at idle and the turbos still have that same throaty sound under acceleration.

BUT

The car does seem a bit down on power when you floor it and the automatic downshifts. This may be a function of tuning, I'll have to see. The engine may have been set back toward the stock settings.

I will say that now that it is running smooth, I may be giving up completely on trying to get any real power out of the inline. After all these years and now thousands of dollars invested...it really does not feel really any faster than stock. People here keep claiming to get power from the engine, but now with a setup comparable to many...I just don't see it.
 
Good to hear you are happy with the new cam.

I think somebody locally with a stock type setup needs to take you for a drive or let you drive so you can do a more fair analysis of the performance gain. If you've been working/driving it for years you may have a slightly 'romantic' memory of how things were before you started.

Anybody in his area with a bone stock 200/Autolite 1100/Load-O-Matic/Auto want to take Chris for a drive? It works for the volunteer also as Chris could then take you for a drive to feel what difference his upgrades have done.

-ron
 
Wow, Im really surprised that you say "feels like stock". I took my original engine and just put on the DUI set up, I noticed a huge difference just form the DUI, no new carb, same stock cam, 122,000 miles. Just before I changed out this old worn out engine for the new performance engine, I put the old ford dizzy back on. (put the new DUI dizzy on the new performance engine before installing). Anyway after putting the old stock Ford Dizzy back on in the car, I pulled out in traffic, expecting the same performance that I got from the DUI set-up and about killed myself. White knuckles, I was grabbing the wheel and screaming GO GO GO.

I put the new engine in, same C4 trans and stock converter, It felt like a small v8. So you say you can't tell the difference. I agree with coupeboy, you forgot how slow the original engine is. :)
 
That could be true, it has been 17 years since I drove the car bone stock.

My point is that each time I spend a bunch on the engine I expect some change in power and I never get it.

Maybe it is the rest of the drivetrain... The C4 (or C3 - I'm not sure. When it was rebuilt back in '87 I seem to remember the dealership saying they burned through a couple of torque converters till the found the right one and it wasn't for a C4, but I can't remember) and stock gears could be the culprit. I don't know. I just know I can't keep spending money on potential performance when there is so much other work to do on the car.
 
17 years, ya you just forgot.

Changing the rear gears is a cheap and easy way to get some extra punch of the line. I bought a 7 1/4 rear, off a sprint mustang, had 3.25 gears in it. Bolted on and away I went. By the way I understand the money thing, who'd a thunk.

It's an obsession for me. but like anything else, you do it long enough and you get tired of doing it.
 
Sounds like the tranny is due for a freshen up , I also agree with Mach1 Mark about the gears aswell.I know it's more money but you have to think of the WHOLE package from engine to rearend.Have you, or do you plan on recurving the distributor now that you have the new cam in it? Have you readjusted the carb or did the shop do it for ya'?
 
cfmustang":14jet0jt said:
My point is that each time I spend a bunch on the engine I expect some change in power and I never get it.
Click to expand...

It's the same whether it's a strait 6, or a big block Chevy.

each incremental upgrade doesn't really feel to different from the last (excepting some key ones, like headers on an already cammed motor).

Unless you swap from a mild motor to a wild motor all at once, you aren't really going to notice a big improvement. It's just the way it works.

If you want to bolt on a big seat of the pants improvement - forced induction.

But that's hardly bolt on.
 
I have only heard of the 7 1/4" rear with 3:20 gears, but never seen one in the 20 years I have owned the car. I know this has had to have discussed before, but I have never heard definitively if the gears be changed in the 7 1/4" rear?

As for the tranny, it may have been 15+ years since the transmission was rebuilt but it was rebuilt at a Ford dealership and has seen less than 5K miles since that rebuild (the car sat unused for about 12 years) so it is probably ok. The mechanic that just did all this work mentioned that pretty much any automatic with a performance cam needs a higher-stall torque converter. I just don't want to have to spend the money to have the engine pulled to install a new torque converter (if I can even get one if it is a C3 or a C5).

Again, I am just reluctant to spend anything else on drivetrain for a while. The upgrades are always guaranteed to help, but in my experience seem to do very little. I would rather spend the money getting the body finished and painted, getting some new wheels and tires, re-upholster the interior, etc.
 
cfmustang":1e8xms8l said:
I I would rather spend the money getting the body finished and painted, getting some new wheels and tires, re-upholster the interior, etc.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here is going to disagree with you. A slow (classic) car that looks good is a lot more fun over the long haul than a fast car that looks like crap.

Btw, if you are paying someone else to modify your car for you - I can understand why you are feeling the pain so bad. Getting shops to install an aftermarket part is expensive as hell.
 
Maybe after I get the rest of the car done, I'll look for a 3:20 rear.

Btw, if you are paying someone else to modify your car for you - I can understand why you are feeling the pain so bad. Getting shops to install an aftermarket part is expensive as hell.
Click to expand...

Yeah, normally I try and do it myself but with this was one of those cases where I just felt more secure having a professional do it. I probably could have done this myself but I probably would have had a few "Oops" moments plus I don't have a lot of time since my daughter was born.
 
I noticed you're running a 110* cam with a C4.
It was recommended to me by Mike to go with a 112* for the automatic.
I also have to agree with the dizzy recurve, and what about the timing gear?
Is it stock, or advanced double-roller?
 
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