Ford 223 Restart

[Adeleandre]

Hello, the rebirth of my 1961 223 on a Ford F100, I redid all the wiring and made myself a starter control, I installed a new ignition harness, new spark plugs, new coil, new starter solenoid, new ballast resistor, new oil pressure sensor, new oil filter, new oil and I installed an electric fuel pump with a pressure regulator. I started my starting tests with a battery that was not powerful enough and it coughed but refused to start, I then took the one from the Mustang and it finally started!!! unfortunately it was not fully charged and I wanted to try again but I did not have enough battery charge. So I put the battery on charge and I will try again later. But after many years it came back to life for a few seconds !!!

 

[Adeleandre]

I tried again last night, it coughs slightly, a little smoke comes out of the exhaust, the cylinder head is slightly hot at each spark plug location but it does not start ... I had a leak on the Holley 1904, so I replaced the faulty gasket and I no longer have a leak but it does not change anything. I think my pressure regulator has a problem because when I check with the pressure gauge I can not get more than 3 psi of pressure when it should provide me and I need at least 5 (knowing that the pump does 6). So I'm going to put the mechanical pump back in to test if it works with it and I'm going to look at the regulator (which is new) to see if the membrane is faulty or if a needle is stuck.

 

[Adeleandre]

I ate very quickly at lunchtime and I dismantled the reducer and the electric fuel pump to put the mechanical pump. It works very well but still no start....yet I have a good ignition with the spark plugs with a nice spark. For the carburetor I do not know if it is in good condition or not and if it could come from it...this evening I will measure the pressure in each cylinder, can you tell me how many psi I should have for a correct engine ?

 

[Frank]

I ate very quickly at lunchtime and I dismantled the reducer and the electric fuel pump to put the mechanical pump. It works very well but still no start....yet I have a good ignition with the spark plugs with a nice spark. For the carburetor I do not know if it is in good condition or not and if it could come from it...this evening I will measure the pressure in each cylinder, can you tell me how many psi I should have for a correct engine ?

Have you verified that the plug wires are in the correct phasing in the distributor? Sounds like you may have it 180* off. An easy mistake, happens a lot. Pull #1 plug, clover the hole with a finger and crank over till compression. then bring the piston up to close to TDC. Pull the dist cap and verify the rotor is pointing at the #1 wire on the tower. It may be pointing at #6. Shifting the plug wires in the cap 180* is the easiest fix.

 

[Adeleandre]

I took the compressions tonight and it's not good... Between 30 and 60 psi depending on the cylinders, I have leaks either at the valves or at the segments...

 

[Frank]

I took the compressions tonight and it's not good... Between 30 and 60 psi depending on the cylinders, I have leaks either at the valves or at the segments...

Excuse the elementary question- did you have the throttle and choke fully open?

 

[Adeleandre]

Oh yes, full throttle and wide open choke... On the other hand I have a regulator valve positive crankcase ventilation system, I don't know how it works, could that have an influence?

 

[Frank]

Oh yes, full throttle and wide open choke... On the other hand I have a regulator valve positive crankcase ventilation system, I don't know how it works, could that have an influence?

No sir, not on a compression check. . Late valve timing would cause low cranking compression. If I were in your situation, my first line of problem solving would be to check the timing chain/gears. Unless it's terribly loose or has jumped-time that's not the cause.

 

[manglass]

Was this engine running previously?

If your compression readings are correct (50-60 psi across all cylinders), it may be an indication of a "jumped" timing chain. You might try a wet compression check or a leak down test to get a better idea of what's going on.

Lou Manglass

 

[Adeleandre]

I think I'll have to take the cylinder head apart, I'll try to take a video of the valves working in the cylinder with my borescope camera and let me know what you think.

 

[Bronctopia]

That probably won't tell us much about timing, unless the scope can view both valves and the piston at the same time.

The least invasive check for really fubar timing would be a timing light. After that probably pulling the valve cover and watching rockers while barring over by hand. Any weirdness either way and you should pull the timing chain cover.

 

[Adeleandre]

Yes I can see the piston and the two valves

 

[Adeleandre]

Yes I can see the piston and the two valves

but it is mainly to show you the valves in the closed position

 

[Bronctopia]

That doesn't necessarily rule out slipped timing.
Late closing of the intake valve during the compression stroke is what would cause most of compression loss in the case of slipped timing, and still be, or appear closed at TDC.

 

[Frank]

but it is mainly to show you the valves in the closed position

Leaky valves are not visible, the leaks are too minute. This is really not going to be an informative test. Your compression numbers are too even to assume valve leaks, that's not likely the cause. It's more likely either rings or late valve timing.

 

[Adeleandre]

I'm sending you a video and photos, in the photos when the valves are at their highest it is their closed position

Vidéo =

 

[Frank]

Thanks for that. That engine has enough compression to start. Did you verify that the plug wires are in the correct location?

 

[Bronctopia]

Nice video. But I am afraid that a borescope (I have one too) is not a very useful tool for checking timing.
It will show you valves moving, but contains no information about when in the cycle this is happening.

 

[Bronctopia]

I don't intend to sound elitist here, so please don't take offense at the following questions.

Do you own and know how to use a timing light?

You see, to older mechanics with decades of exp, we might tend to make assumptions.

Like that all gear heads would aquire a $30 timing light before a $100+ borescope.

But the world IS changing. And complicated electronics in particular are FAR cheaper than they used to be ($45 oscilloscopes ??!?)

You see, by clamping the "old school" timing light over plug wire 1, aiming it at the timing marks, and simply cranking the engine, you can verify many things at once:

1st: that you are actually firing a spark. The strobe No Worky otherwise.

2nd: that this spark is happening somewhere near TDC for Cyl 1. This MIGHT not be the correct TDC, it COULD be the one 360* away. A little further verification required.

3rd: approximately how far in advance of TDC this is happening (the critical "when" information).

 

[Adeleandre]

Always check the basics !!!! my distributor was not wired correctly at all ...which shows that it is important to read technical journals....the engine still does not start despite everything but I will have to check that the distribution is correctly adjusted...