found out whats wrong with my car!!! i think..

T

teggy87

Well-known member
valves stuck open??

k i diddnt know untill today that my first 3 cyllinders have almost no compression. the next 2 have little and the 3rd has plenty... im NOT spitting grey smoke everywhere.. and the motor only has 90k on it. which leads me to beleive the piston rings are fine.. the car sat for probly 20 years b4 i got it. my question is does that sound like the case? if so is there a way to fix this or at least doctor it to buy me some time??? i intend to buy a new head and have it machined and then im going to put it on within the week


it's a ford 200 cid l6

what kind of money am i looking at?
and whats the best way to go about getting a head? should i order one already trumped up, or buy one at the local junk yard (if i can find one) and have it shaved.

how much do i need it shaved? will i have to adjust the lifters?

im searching the forums as well ;)
 
i have heard a few different ideas.. some being put mystery oils of sorts in the gas and another being putting tranny fluid in the carby while it's running..? any truth to any of this?
 
Find out where you are loosing compression, from rings worn or rings stuck in the piston ring grooves.

Run a dry & wet compression check.

If that engine sat for 20 years i would tear it down, hone the cylinder bores if not worn & check the bearings & crankshaft for wear. Of course install new rings & either install new bearings & or grind the crankshaft.
After that do a valve job.

If you pull the engine apart, that would be the time to put a decent camshaft in the engine & scrap the junk stock camshaft.

Let your wallet be your guide. Bill
 
My money would be on stuck rungs too.
There are various oils and solvents you could try but a teardown will tell the real story.
It may have been sludged up before it was put to pasture 20 years ago.
 
na, the fellow my dad bought it from owned it since 72, and he said the only thing wrong with it was that the heater coil was bad.. he diddnt have anything to lose. he sold the car for $300. the only reason he parked it was because of that and slight body damage.. im fairly confident it's stuck valves.. i plan on pouring some atf fluid in the carby tomorrow.. hopefully it'll free some things up.. if not.. off comes the head!
 
If you are sure they are stuck you could try tapping them with a hammer to see if they free up(after a good soaking with penetrating oil). Dont go nuts or you'll bend the stem for sure. At a minimum you'll have to replace valve seals.

Ron
 
Howdy Teggy and All:

I'd sure spend some time IDing the problem. WSA111 gave you the "How to" on checking the ring seal. Have you removed the valve cover to watch the rockers/valves as you turn the engine over? That will surely ID any stuck valves. If you do use some solvents/detergents in the oil or gas, do not use them too long. After an appropriate flushing out, be sure to change the oil and filter.

On your problem head, what year are you working with? What era new head are you looking for? What is your intended use with the new head? CR goal?

Adios, David
 
i'll be honest, this is a project car that turned into primary transportation.

im looking to get it on the road as cheap as possible for now. i intend to rebuild it in the future but when i do i will have the block bored/honed head ported n polished, i'll invest in some forged internals a copper head gasket ect. and a supercharger, but im trying not to dig into that part money for now to keep this thing running me to work and back.

i want to do this myself to gain a bit of experience, the only thing i ever rebuilt was a motorcycle engine with ohc's so the lifter idea to me is odd figuring out. it seems odd.

my questions are.. when i put this new head gasket in, will i have to get the head shaved? im not concerned with losing a little compression as long as it'll get me down the road acceptably. a good friend said i should be able to pull the head and slap it right back on no problems.. with a new head gasket.

when i pull the head will i have to mess with the timing? i wont right?

would you suggest replacing the valves if they arent bent?

what would you suggest having done to this head, just valve seals?
 
The thing you should remember that even if the car had 0 miles when it was parked. or fifty, that time and rust as well as expansion of metal due to temp changes can cause the rings, valves, and pistons to get stuck. as well as the fact that as far as i know the engines from those days usually required an overhaul (at least partial) after about 150 miles at most. my engine had only 50000 on a full rebuild, but sat for 17 years and the rings were cracked, some stuck.
 
Ok, you are talking about putting a head gasket in now, did you try any of the suggestions above and what were the results? A head gasket will do you no good if the rings or valves are stuck. Quite a bit of money and time to just fail. Then you may never get back to it? The fellows here are just trying to help.


Ron
 
om not disregaurding their opinion.. i appreciate every ones input.

i did the compression test again today just to get things for sure.. ok and here is how things look

#1 has 25 max psi
#2 has 25 max psi
#3 has 25 max psi
#4 has around 63 psi
#5 has around 120 psi
#6 tested at about 80 psi

do you think possibly all of the valves were stuck open (the ones that were down when the engine was last run) , and got smashed by the pistons when it turned over? tell me what this info may tell you..

i wasnt just pulling the head to swap the gasket, i am pulling the head to take a look at the valves and cylinder walls. is this a bad idea?

correct me if im wrong, but wont the car be bellowing grey smoke if the piston rings are bad? especially more than 50% of my piston rings.
 
may be stating the obvious

but did you do the comp test with the throttle at fully open ?

at 25psi i am surprised it even runs...
 
Yup, you have to get max air flowing so tie that puppy fully open. If the pistons were hitting they would have knocked the valves loose by now however, they don't have to be open much to lose compression.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't paying attention, I didn't know it ran! :roll:

Try again with the throttle open, dont forget to do both wet and dry. See what that gets you.
 
what type of comp tester do you have - the one with a rubber bung on the end to seal with ? or the screw in type ?.
it helps to have an accomplice turn over the engine if its the rubber bung type as you really need to jamb it in with both hands to get a good seal.


also as said wire/wedge open the throttle , make sure the choke is open and take the other plugs out so you get the engine spinning.
and crank it over for 5 /10 secs per cylinder - you will see the pressure rise and then stabilise.

also take the readings when the engine is hot.

and maybe recheck the readings

my guess is that if the engine turns over and starts -with no mechanical noises - ie valve hitting -is that it just needs a load of fresh oil, some engine oil flush and some upper cylinder lubricant in the fuel.
get it started and warmed up and let it run for a while at moderate revs to loosen /clean everything up .
then do the comp test.
may take a while for it to all loosen up

if it runs ok then go for drive and change the oil after say 50 miles.

i had a 200ci i pulled apart and it had one set of rings stuck in the piston grooves

oh so gently loosed them up and was good to go(but its not together yet!)

HTH

Brett
 
it's one i have at work.. it screws into the cyllinder.. i recon i'll test it AGAIN and see what it says.. though i dont see anything changing. :banghead:
so are we ruling out piston rings now? or no?

i took off the valve cover yesterday and took a look at the pocker arms and valve springs and none of the valves looked to be sticking from the top unless it was a miniscule amount, though im told thats all i need to ruin compression
 
if you want to rule out the idea that the valves are stuck have some one crank the car with the valve cover off. while they do this look at the rockerarm move and see if any stick out more than they should. the only way your will find out otherwise is to get the head off and just look at them or even invest in getting the work done anyway. with 90 thousand miles it is very possible that it will need it anyway..
 
well i have turned the car over with the valve cover off and i do not beleive they are stuck. thats why im thinking maybe i have bent valves..
 
Try a fine water squirt over the carb with a squeeze bottle and the engine just off idle while still- fairly- cold engine.
watch for black smoke out the back.
Then squirt some WD-40 or Rislone oil treatment or similar on the cylinders, let it sit for a while, then turn the engine without plugs.
Then re-do the compression test to compare.
With no strange noises, putting some miles on it should help ring seal, valve seat seal is another matter...
Ricardo
 
my thought exactly. well not the remedy, but the fact that the valves may be perfectly straight and closing all the way, but a minor chip in the seat or even valve or any form of distortion best bet would be overhaul. not even kidding and it would end up bein cheapest because of all the money and time you are putting into trying to remedy problems that may or may not exist. the cylinders could be extremely worn which means boring. there are so many possible problems when dealing with an engine with 90 thousand miles after sitting for 20 years
 
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