Fox 3.3's

[xctasy]

Whole bunches of years old 3.3 I six Fox fords are comming through on the internet, especially from the United Kingdom,
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/ ... fox?page=2


as well as Leonardo Villanueva's 200 hp example from Argentina. Still looking for engine shots from his car, but when I find them, you'll be first to now.

http://fox-body.com/cars/80_hatch_2/80_hatch_2.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgnZv94BfSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysHxN10q2zQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vF9SKX5wNY

 

[JT81stang]

I'm so glad the older Fox bodies are starting to be restored.
I sure do miss my 81 Stang.

I think I was one of the few that put a 250 in it.

 

[chad]

JT -
seems like that light body/displacement might B nice...
no firewall or radiator changes for the 250 insert?
oil pan/linkage?, hood?

Thanks.

 

[xctasy]

Only two issues.

That mid mounted "under cross member steering rack" means you have to create a double hump Oil pan for the Fox I6 250 conversion. This has always been a little bit hard, but they do make 351W, 335(Cleveland based 351c, 351m, 400) and 385(Lima Big Block 370/429/460) pans, so axing up a stock 3.3Fox or Fox body 2.3Lima/3.8 Essex or Windsor 255/302 pan and mating it to a 250 pan rail isn't an issue. Jack showed the red 250 tri power conversion in the early days back from an 80's conversion they did, all sorts of trick dual out headers, home made sumps and welded on tri power triple singles...

Cowl height on the Fox Mustangs is, so you have to use that aftermarket Mustang hood, or 1979-1984 hood bulge used as a hangoer from the 1979 to 1981 Mustang Cobra era or Fox Capri 79-85 hood bulges make enough space to clear a 1-bbl, 2-bbl or tri power carb set up on a 250. The other guys on their Box top Fairmonts and Zephyrs just make a carb hood bulge.

The Fox body has a mountian of space width and length wise, but is just a little bit compromised in the depth as Dearborn tried darn hard to thin down the cowl 1" on the Fox Mustangs and Capris compared to the Fox sedans.

 

[xctasy]

Only two issues. Which we first often discussed often here and again over at Four Eyed Pride on a regular basis.

1.The carry over of the Pinto/Mustang II steering rack created the need for worlds oddest double hump sump,



and
2. they engine bay depth is limited for tall 250 and 240/300 sixes. But if you can fit a 300 or 460 with a little massaging, then any things doable.

viewtopic.php?p=47585

That mid mounted "under cross member steering rack" means you have to create a double hump Oil pan for the Fox I6 250 conversion. This has always been a little bit hard, but they do make 351W, 335(Cleveland based 351c, 351m, 400) and 385(Lima Big Block 370/429/460) pans, so axing up a stock 3.3Fox or Fox body 2.3Lima/3.8 Essex or Windsor 255/302 pan and mating it to a 250 pan rail isn't an issue. Jack showed the red 250 tri power conversion in the early days back from an 80's conversion they did, all sorts of trick dual out headers, home made sumps and welded on tri power triple singles...

Cowl height on the Fox Mustangs is, so you have to use that aftermarket Mustang hood, or 1979-1984 hood bulge used as a hangover from the 1979 to 1981 Mustang Cobra era or Fox Capri 79-85 hood bulges make enough space to clear a 1-bbl, 2-bbl or tri power carb set up on a 250. The other guys on their Box top Fairmonts and Zephyrs just make a carb hood bulge.

The Fox body has a mountian of space width and length wise, but is just a little bit compromised in the depth as Dearborn tried darn hard to thin down the cowl 1" on the Fox Mustangs and Capris compared to the Fox sedans.

Here is a triple carbed 250 engine in a Fox Mustang back from the 80's by Jack Collins. It has a split exhast, early Falcon linkage, and welded on intake adaptor. Doing a triple carb install on a 250 has at least five problems to overcome which I'll detail below, but you get the general idea. And the results are always stunning for power if you follow the leading lights, see Falcon Sedan Delivery's old 65 Mustang (Drag car only) 250 Six + goodies. A Fox Capri or Mustang with the optional 1981 onwards 3.08:1 7.5" limited slip diff can weigh in as little as 2622 pounds with the 385 pound six, only 85 pounds heavier with a low mount SROD . Thats 2707 pounds on a 1981 3.3 4-speed.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=41798&p=502631#p502631

and http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 87&start=0



The Fox bodies and post 1971 I6 Fords have minor issues with linkage, emissions, kickdown and transmission types which are very poorly understood. In addition, Ford continued 170/200 and 250 capacity developments to meet 70's to 83 emmissions and different Mavrick, Early Bronco Granada, Fat Stang and Fox body types changed everything carb, kickdown and accessory drive and air cleaner around almost every year, so getting matched parts is something of a lottery. Easy when you know, a bit hard if you don't ask.

The best option on a 250 swap dollar for dollar basis is definately the triple carb Offenhauser or Edelbrock flat top log adaptor, but hooking those old tri power set ups create five often insurmountable catches on Fox bodies:-

1. Each require the old style Falcon Six passenger side linkage which
2. deep sixes the prospect of using the stock A/C pump,
3 the stock EGR valve needs to be removed and
4. there a no stock emissions certified carbs to use.
5. If auto, then the stock kickdown rod on C3 and C4/C5 3.3 sixes then become a non runner unless you use some Ford Six smarts.

(The kickdown rod used on all auto 170/200/250 engine I6's post 1971 is impossible to use on a triple carb conversion, due to its possition right where the back carb goes).

You need to be aware that the stock aftermarket triple carb set up uses either

1.the three new 34 ICH Weber 1-bbl carbs in 1.142" venturi for 138 cfm or 414 cfm at 1.5" Hg, enough to flow 180 to 200 hp all up with the outer carbs staged to come in at 2/3rds throttle

See http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64712

See viewtopic.php?t=64712

or

2. the slightly better flowing big bore stock Ford I6 production carb versions with
2 x Outer Holley 1904/1908/1909 125/130/150/170 cfm in 1.352" venturi and
1x inner Autolite 1100/1101( or Holley 1940/Motorcraft branded) carbs, 131 cfm 1.20", 149 cfm 1.29" venturi.


For further reading, see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... 200cid-I-6

 

[JT81stang]

Yes all of the things Execute said are necessary.
As far as oil pan goes I used the top of a 250 pan mated to the sump of the original 200 oil pan. A new dipstick tube must be made to go into the side of the sump as my 250 was an early motor and the oil dipstick was beside the distributor for a front sump oil pan.
Motor mounts - because the 250 is 2" taller in deck height I used Maverick 250 motor mounts to lower the motor as far as I could - the bottom of the oil pan was just 1/4" away from the front sway bar.
Header - I used a Clifford 6 into 1 header and shortened the collector 1" as it was too close to the lower part of the firewall.
Hood - even with using the Maverick motor mounts the air cleaner will still sit above the hood line. So I bought a 5.0 scoop and cut the hood to make the scoop functional.
Power steering pump - I used an earlier mid 70's pump off a 250 as the original 200 pump mounting brackets would not work and the older brackets don't work with the original 200 power steering pump.
Transmission - my 81 came with a C-4 so to mate it with the 250, all I had to do was get a C-4 bellhousing for a 250 and it bolted right up to the original C-4 tranny. A proper 250 flywheel and converter are necessary.
Cooling fan - the original 4 blade 200 fan now sits 2" higher with the 250 motor which was dangerously close to the underside of the ribbing on the hood so I went with a slightly smaller dia plastic flex fan.
Because I did all of this in the late 80's there was no info to go on, so it was the trial and error method. Even though I had an Isky cam with a Rhoads lifter setup in it, I tried a Motorcraft 2bbl carb mounted on a 1 to 2bbl adaptor - which probably didn't help in the breathing dept. Jump ahead to the early 2000's I removed the head and milled the carb base down for a direct mount Holley 2 bbl but never did finish it and unfortunately only sold the car last year. But I still have plenty of pics and info if anyone is interested.

 

[chad]

Kouwell!
I guess there's no place to upload pic here? except into a post (ie no library, archive etc).
If U have them somewhere accessible I could go there. I'm on dial up and need to take em
a small chunk @ a time...