Fuel injection...through a carb

[blueroo]

Hey all,
I bought a magazine a couple of months ago and in one of the articles a guy took some older Stromberg carbs (97s I believe) and using the carbs as a type of blueprint, created new throttle bodies I guess you'd call them that looked almost exactly like the carbs. I think it had two main housings much like our 1100s and containted within the one housing section were two fuel injectors. The most obvious external difference was the TB's lack of an idle screw.
I imagine it would be possible to do the same for the 1100s, I'm just wondering a couple things...

1) Can the 1100's housing be used with modification?
2) Can an idle screw be kept, for looks?
3) Could stock, or relatively stock fuel lines be used?
4) Is there a way to "hide" an electric fuel pump in the stock fuel pump housing assembly?

And FINALLY...

5) Is anyone out there willing to attempt it? (I would but I know I don't have the skills)

 

[ASMART]

I have thought about that also. Keep the retro look and benifit from the FI.

 

[2nd.gunman]

those stromberg 97 throttle bodies are a completely new casting made by MOON. there is no original stromberg parts used.

 

[MustangSix]

Those things were made so that they would look like a carb. If you need it to look like a carburetor, then that would be the way to go.

But if the idea is to get a 1bbl injector that will bolt onto the log, then i suggest a Tempo/Topaz/Taurus 1bbl CFI instead. It is a 1bbl with the same two bolt mounting pattern as the YF/RBS/1101. It will bolt on just like a carb.

It has a single injector that should be able to provide enough fuel for 150-160 horses (maybe more), and it is simple. The bonnet unscrews and can be rotated or it can be adapted for a regular air cleaner. Throttle linkage is on the same side as the carb and is in the same position as the stock late model cable, but if you are up to this task you could move it to the early model angle pretty easily. A Megasquirt will run it and it has an integral adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

 

[6bangerbill]

Almost the same idea, Im constructing a combination carburator/ injection system out of two Q jets. I originally wanted an efi system but it was not allowed in nostalgia inliners drag racing, only the old hilborn style constant flow systems are allowed. So I bought a set of alcohol port injectors to use with my old hilborn pump, using the qjets as throttle bodies. I can mount the hilborn injector nozzles like the original efi injectors on my ls6 heads. Then for street , gasoline can be plumbed into the qjets and the injector pump will be plumbed into the rear mounted tank of gas. THe injectors will only be used for alcohol from a separate front mounted tank. Alcohol solves all of the nasty detination problems and it is cheaper than racing gas. The alcohol will also be used later when a super charger is added. Oh yea I got internally ported injector nozzles so they wont leak air when the carburation is used. What do you think?

 

[ASMART]

What magazine did you find it in. Please give name and date.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Front barrels on gas...

Rear barrels on alcohol....

I did that on a Holley 650 double pumper many moons ago.

 

[6bangerbill]

Linc's 200,
Waco is a nice place, I attended Baylor U. for a spell in the '60s.

How did the secondary alcohol system work out? Were you able to pass enough fuel thru the secondary passages to prevent leanout? Or did you use a couple of injectors?

I prefere to use 6 injectors to prevent vaporization and puddling in the manifold . Vapors displace air and prevent a full volume of intake air being admitted into the cylinder. For racing, limiting vaporization to the combustion chamber seems to be the way to make hp. Injector nozzles should spray against the back side of the intake valve to cool them to lower combustion temps too. Ive never used an injector pump to supply carburators but others are doing it.Carburators are good, but equal fuel to each cylinder is almost impossible without a highly heated intake manifold for complete vaporization of the fuel ( great for mileage, bad for max hp). Using a two small plenum manifolds will help by grouping 3 equally spaced intake pulses to each carb, also helping to increase carburator venturi flow velocity by reducing plenum volumes.Not a new idea, its very similar to the dual plane v8 manifolds that were invented by early cave men.

 

[Anonymous]

Blueroo:
It would be possible to do you just need to know what to plug up. On the carb you will need to plug up all the holes in the throat of the carb. Remove the float assembly. Then drill a hole (or 2) for the injector form the float area. This is done so you can hide the injector in the carb. Then run the fuel line into the injector (don't forget the return line too) along with the signal wire. Put the carb back together and you are done. A stockish looking TBI. Then of course you will need the computer to control the injector(s) and a higher pressure fuel pump too.

Of course, this is all without test fitting injectors into the bowl area, or looking real hard at the fuel passages into the throat... A throttle body is just an air valve with no fuel passages, and usually either a set screw for idle control, or an air bypass with an electronic valve to control idle... The only way to know is to get a spare carb and head for the drill press

 

[6bangerbill]

That is one beautiful mustang! Slick paint job. Chick magnet.

 

[Anonymous]

I assume you mean my car since it is the only one pictured here. Thank you. I just got it back from having the body restored. The guy did a great job, not just slap bondo on it and spray it. He actually pulled the dents out, like and self-respecting body shop would, and just bondoed it to smooth it. Then I bought some $95 a quart paint to put on it and boy does it shine. As good as it looks in the picture.... the picture does not do it justice. He put down 7 layers of paint and 3 layers of clear. Thats a LOT of paint.. but it looks..... undescribably beautiful. That picture was taken the day I put it in storage to cure. I go to school in AZ and couldn't get it out here without damaging the paint.... So in storage it sits till christmas. I can't wait. What a great present to myself huh? Ok enough hijacking. And thank you again, it is the first comment I have gotten on it so far 8)

 

[6bangerbill]

Would a big ford six fit in the blue beauty, or is the engine comportment small like the early falcons?

 

[Anonymous]

I might be able to make one fit... but as it stands right now.. no I don't think so. I have visions of a turbo charged 200 or 250 and being able to leave just about anything in the dust if I so desire.... ahhh the plans I have for my car... I just wish it were here so I could work on it!!

 

[wallaka]

It's definitely possible....http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27410

 

[blueroo]

ok, I'm choosing to go against the Holley 2v carb. I would like to pursue the Tempo/Topaz/Taurus fuel injection setup depending on price.

Moderators, if you would like a sticky on this, I'd be more than willing to take pics and such if you tell me what you'll need.

Anyhow, I know of course I'll need the 1v cfi and a fuel return line for the conversion. And I'm guessing I'll need a new fuel pump as well.

I do have a few questions though:

1) Can I use the computer and related harnesses from the donor car, or will I need to take a different route?
2) Is there any specific coding/castings (ie c4oz or similar) I should look for?
3) As long as it has the 1v cfi, does it matter what year?
4) Just to make sure I cover all the bases, I'm assuming I'll need the setup from a v6 car to match the number of cylinders. Am I correct or would a 4 cylinder car suffice?
5) What am I looking at cost wise?
6) Is the carb heat spacer still needed since it's fuel injected?

And finally, this would be very helpful if it's possible to do as it's a daily driver car, would it be possible to run the stock carb system and the cfi system components simultaneously...the carb and the cfi would never be on together, but their respective pumps, lines, and wiring would be in the car to beging with in case the fuel injection needs kinks worked out?

 

[FrankBoss]

BlueRoo

What Magazine was this article out of?

I Posted about using Strong burgs as fuel injection in another boards ..
A vintage company did this using 97 base plates back in the late 50's.
the Same company made the Fuel injection system on the Mad Max pursuit car with the scoop.....(I know it was all For show)

the Company was called Scott Fuel Injection...

Frank

 

[blueroo]

I forget the magazine right now, I'll try and find it tomorrow and let you know

 

[woodbutcher]

I Think that the article that you are referring to was in Hot Rod(R)Magazine.Don`t remember the issue,BUT IIRC it was last year.Maybe about mid Summer?And heres something that I was thinking on.Might not be practical,but you never know.How about one TB per cylinder?Should be fairly simple to fab up.Just maybe,MegaSquirt would be able to control
them by having the MS unit fire them in the firing order of the engine.Crazy?Impractical?Don`t know.BUT,there are some mighty fine minds at work on this site.
Leo

 

[6bangerbill]

I like the efi idea, the tbi system was used as stop gap measure while the ifi electronic systems were developed. With the efi electronics, the list of methods used for air regulation (throttle bodies) are endless and not really critical. Make it look neat maybe (6) downdraft stock 170 ford carburator bases (attach six curved inlet ram tubes through a hole in your hood)! Anything is possible. If the camming allows, use a stock efi system off a 4.9 inliner, use injectors matched to your hp level. Many companies will burn a chip for you if the engine is relatively stock.Or use the Megasquirt system for infinitely precise fuel control for a radical engine combination. When you finish the project you will have skills that very few motor heads possess.