getting the motor ready for aluminium

[170-3tree]

So I posted in the small block section about cam selection recently, but got told that my comp of 9.4:1 was far too high to run pump gas. I am posting over here to get a conformation on my build so I don't destroy anything.

The build is with my 170cid six, hopefully transfered over to a 250 when the funds arise.
I had planned on doing a modified log or alum head for some time, but just now got funds. And honestly for the extra few hundred bucks alum is the way I'm going so I don't have to do it twice.
On my little engine I want to run either a 264/264 264/274 or 274/274 cam at either 108 or 110 lobe center. but not sure if I need dual pattern for a street engine or if 274 is far too overdone for the smaller engine. I have a 2.77 trans that I just rebuilt replacing some of the more worn gears in it, but intend to swap to t-5 in the future.
Like I said this will be a street engine and might see the strip once in a blue moon down the line, but am lookin primarily for something that run a Honda off the stoplights.
I would like q bit of an idle to her, but not if that sacrifices performance.

carb will likely be an autolite 2100 but can figure out what CFM when the time for that comes. It will include a header and probably 2" dual exhaust.
I just want to get some decent answers before putting in this order and not just be told what is wrong with my plan, but not how to correct it.

Thank you for any input.
Gerald

 

[rocklord]

9.4:1 with an aluminum head wouldn't be that bad. You should be able to run premium gas with it, but not regular unleaded. Regular might be what they were referring to as "pump gas".

264/274 cam should be fine with your 170 with a 2100.

Check out Mike's dyno runs with the Pony Carbs. The 200 had a stock bottom end with his aluminum head and 264/274 cam.
The 2100 pulled the second best HP runs.

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

I'm running 10 to 1 compression with an aluminum head on premium fuel with no problems. 9.4 is NOT going to be a problem at all!

You should be able to run regular gas IMO.

Later,

Doug

 

[MPGmustang]

I run 9.3 on regular gas, 91 oct (only for MPG purposes...) could run 89 or 87 just fine(~8*static), but I run the higher 91 to add timing (mpg) (currently 15* static)

9.4 will be perfect for the 170, IF you went dual pattern you could run 9.6-9.8 easily with 89-91, 87 if you retard the timing. olny becuase the dual pattern changes the dynamic CR and trick the engine to have more CR at higher RPM. which IMO would be great for the smaller ci engine.

because of the head I would take as much advantage as possible for HP, try the 274/274, 110 would be best IMO.

Remember to beat honda's at stoplights you want torque, and gearing.

anyluck that you could find one of them 7 main bearing 170 blocks?

 

[170-3tree]

TJANK YOU ALL that is the type of answers I wanted, so with 9.4 I might be looming at midgrade?
I like the sound of that.

 

[170-3tree]

Mpg, is using a cam that aggressive going to allow my engine to spinner up too high into dangerous territory?

And if I went 274/274 should I be at all concerned with pushrod length?

I'm assuming that these suggestions are keeping in mind that I plan on driving this regularly and possible road trips will be made. So I don't question the drivability factor.

 

[MPGmustang]

The build is with my 170cid six, hopefully transfered over to a 250 when the funds arise.

Mpg, is using a cam that aggressive going to allow my engine to spinner up too high into dangerous territory

I was thinking of the grand picture, you say you're going alum because you don't want to do it twice, same with the cam I thought,

honestly I bet the 250 could handle a 284h cam, with 108, and it would be called mild... wild would be closer to 290's for the 80 extra cubes,

274 is safe IMO for both engines, would be more of a torque cam for the 250 (tame), and a HP cam for the 170 (mild-wild borderline). you'll want stronger springs on the head, but other than that I think it's safe. I wonder if you can get away with some 300's in the 250 due to the extra cubes and balance.

because of the smaller cubes you're engine 'should' rev faster than a 200, or 250, but will still be limited on power due to lack of cubes. make sure you're safe on CR for both engines, build it once build it right. 9.4 is safe, is the 170 going to be 0-decked? or have a deck? just make it planed for the same on both engines. I bet u could come out of this cheaper if you got the cam you want for the 250. and a 274 is tame-mild for the 250 and probably a great daily cam.

 

[170-3tree]

Thank you for explaining that to me. The only other thing I'm not sure of is the pushrod length. Or is that only determined by lookin at the actual engine in question?

The block will be 0 decked. And I believe to achieve 9.4 I am lookin at about 47 cc's on the chamber volume.

As an update to my current progress, I have the engine about ready to pull out and as removing the radiator have decided that I might go alum there as well along with an electric fan, but probably after I do an alternator swap. But I might do that after the engine build and driving a while to see if I notice much difference between mechanical fan and electric. Just for my own amusement.

 

[170-3tree]

Hey all, just posting an update to my build,
Got the engine disassembled yesterday, looked over things to see what all I would need, but found some odd wear on my bearings, all of them, showing parts that had NO wear after 15k and an "x" shape with the outer edges at the top of both crank and rod bearings where the outside of the bearings were showing brass already, I'm hoping between any suggestions on this forum and my and my instructors wisdom, be able to make this not an issue any more.

Cylinder walls look great showing cross hatching, but perfectly round and smooth still, so the bore will remain in tact, cam wear looks great and minimal.

Basically just need to determine if there is any huge things that need to be dealt with on line bore or bearings before I send it all off to the machine shop.
As always suggestions are welcome.
Also I am having a hard time deciding on 1.75 or 2 inch dual exhaust, I know my hp range prefers 1.75, but would 2 be way too much?
Thank you all!
Gerald.

 

[82F100]

I would also look into running E85 if it's available in your area.

 

[bmbm40]

Depending on how much the machine work will cost for the 170 have you considered looking for a 200 or 250 engine? I still find them around pretty cheap sometimes. I enjoy going to wrecking yards though.
I learned to drive in a 62 Falcon with a 170 so hopping up a 170 sounds kind of interesting. I don't remember seeing many on here modding their 144's or 170's just to easy to drop in a 200.

 

[170-3tree]

Well the current 170 is a near-fresh rebuild, with 15 k on it, so the machine work is goin to be really minimal other than decking the block for cr. I believe I found my bearing issues to be excessive crush on them. Which is what I had originally thought it was, but clevites website confirms it now.
A 200 or 250 will come when I can build a bottom end built up really nicely.

82, can you direct me to q how to on e85 and maybe somethin with benefits of it?

 

[Invectivus]

I have the 170 out of my 64 convertible falcon, that I bought forged pistons for a song. Planning on supercharging it and dropping it into a model A when I find one (or make one). That has to get in line though, too many other projects.

 

[tyu222]

9.4:1 with an aluminum head wouldn't be that bad. You should be able to run premium gas with it, but not regular unleaded. Regular might be what they were referring to as "pump gas".

264/274 cam should be fine with your 170 with a 2100.

Check out Mike's dyno runs with the Pony Carbs. The 200 had a stock bottom end with his aluminum head and 264/274 cam.
The 2100 pulled the second best HP runs.

I think I found my game plan for my 200ci out of his question....

What is the strongest cam you would go with in a 200?.....264-110?...

 

[170-3tree]

It Wiley depends on what you want to do, I could use the most aggressive cam they sell, but only use it for strip use, if you want to drive it a bit around town I would seriously consider the 280 @110 or the 274 there is way too many variables in choosing a cam than just the block, however it will affect it some, which is why I asked for some advice myself, if I had a 200 I would be lookin at the 280 but for the smaller displacement, I decided to go q bit tamer.

EDIT. Now I find myself at a pass, selection of carburetor, I did the math on mikes website however I have no clue what the volumetric efficiency of this head is. I swear I read it was in the 85-95% range so using that I cone to about 325 CFM form my carb. I spoke with Mike and he is going to ask the guy at clay Smith what cam would work for me, but I know that knowing that will help me make a good carb selection, bit so far I am thinkin the base Weber 2300 350 CFM will be the most likely Candidate unless someone on here would rather point me in another direction.

Again thanks all for any replies. I am getting too excited for this to come together which sucks when I don't have a single part to work on right now haha.

 

[170-3tree]

Thought I'd post an update as I am back from vacation and things are going to start coming together pretty rapidly soon.
Got the engine from the machine shop, he refused to mill it to zero deck height becaust he didn't want to be responsible for rod stretch, I'm not too upset about it, but the way he told me got to me. Either way I'm down from the projected 9.4 to about 9.3 cr which isn't too big a deal to me. I had to buy a new piston as he dropped it and said that there was no way to prove it wasn't like that prior to dropping off, turned the crank, which i'm unsure if it was actually neccessary after only 15k since it had been done last. All in all, trippled my machine shop budget.
Started getting a few internal parts in last week while i was out and can now start painting and assembling the engine to some extent.
Still working on finding a decent carb for it just in case it needs rebuilding, I will allow the time to do so, but still not sure exactly what to get in that area.

I tried to play with making some portions of the engine like valve cover doing an anodized look just to try and be different, but alas, the rattle cans don't like to look like they should, as always. I'm still liking the idea and might try a few more ideas to get it looking right.

On a side note, I had a crazy dream that we got the whole engine back together and in the car, idling nicely and took it out for a spin and actually lost power over stock, which after all of this work would probably put me in a pretty upset mood. I also don't see it being possible at all with all the modification being done.

Thanks all for the help getting me this far and any more help that I might need in the future, next update will have some images I hope of a progressing build.

Gerald

 

[170-3tree]

Hey all its been about a month and only working on the engine for two hours twice a week is not making progress very quick, but I wanted to post an update and photos. Unfortunately my phone won't let me post the photos so I will try and figure out how to do that after work.

I have everything about ready to go back in, just gotta get the old linkage out of the car and get the throttle cable ready.
While the red color I was using doesn't really look anodized it looks amazing to me so I decided to go with it. I got a 48" cable kit from lokar and a new pedal to use it with, wondering if anyone has tips for setting that up at the moment?

I chose to go with an autolite 2100 with 1.02 venturis and #46 jets, but I am wondering if these jets will be too lean at all and should go ahead and get more?

Thanks all
Gerald.

 

[170-3tree]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150371210399735.357324.500704734&type=1&l=d8dee5b349

As promised for some time, a link to some of the pictures taken.

Also, I have looked over all the throttle parts and it looks like it should be a straight forward installation assuming that the old parts come out without too much fit.

But I am still totally open to suggetions on jets that I might want to obtain for this carb/enigne combo. I just have no idea of the jetting will be too lean.

 

[bubba22349]

Is a good looking 63 Fairlane

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

I would start with the stock jets , you may need to richen a few numbers , Always remember carbs a rated in AIRFLOW , NOT Fuel Flow , a big carb needs bigger jets on a small motor , not the other way around , because the vacuum signal is usually weaker.