All Small Six Help! Did I just screw up my new build?

[WillingnessLimp]

I know I screwed up somewhere in the process and want to understand which of my actions lead to this failure.

So a little backstory. I pulled my engine while I was doing T5 conversion and decided to go through rebuild. Machined the block and head, hot tanked, cleaned, pistons are .020 over, milled the head and decked the block a bit to compensate for felPro gasket, Clay Smith Cam (H-267-8-B), new springs, cleaned and refreshed rocker arm, DUI distributor, dual headers, weber 38/38.
That was my first engine to assemble, but did most of it myself (machine shop put the block with pistons together).
Fast forward couple of months working on it here-there and I was doing my first start at the end of last year.
It started, I think timing was off for sure, but I got it running to break in the cam.
Then it sat for a month and I finally got to work on it recently.
It started, was idling (a bit high, at about 900 rpm), but seemed okay.
So I drove it around neighborhood for 10 min and the next day drove it for about 10 miles to finish up the exhaust. On my way back I picked up timing light to dial it in.
To my surprise, the timing was completely off, I mean, it was way retarted - about 10-12 degreed after TDC. Adjusted the timing (with vacuum disconnected) to be 10-12 degrees BTDC - car ran much better. With vacuum connected I was at about 20-22 degrees BTDC.
Couldn't get it to idle correctly - was at about 900-1000 rpm with idle screw backed off all the way and not touching anything. But thought I would figure it out as I go.
Picked up kids from school yesterday and dropped them off this morning on that set up (about another 12 miles total).
Later today was planning on doing a little longer drive (about 30 min one way) and wanted to take the car out. Everything was going well, but about halfway through the drive on the freeway I hear metal banging and had to pull over as soon as I could. Tried starting the car, but the banging/clanking sound made me to shut it off right away. At this point I'm on a freeway and can't really hear well where the noise was coming from - wasn't sure if something was wrong with transmission or driveshaft or anything else. No leaks tho. Towed car home and tried a quick start. The banging noise was definitely coming from the engine.
Also noticed a small oil leak from the rear of the engine, where it mates with bell housing.
I didn't have a chance to start taking it apart, but just assume the worst - my learning experience just cost me an engine job
Did I f*cked it up with timing at the beginning? Or anything else that could have been overlooked?

Not sure why, but first thing I've decided to pull spark plugs out lol. One of the spark plug wires came undone at the spark plug.
Also, per @awasson suggestion I put an oil catch can for PCV and during that short period of engine running, I think it accumulated quite a bit of oil.

Anyway, any tips, suggestions, jokes or phrases like "do a V8 swap at this point" will be taken in consideration
Gonna start with taking the head off first and then deciding what to do next, but probably will pull the engine out again and dive deeper.
I'll include video of the car running this morning - would be curious to know if it seemed okay.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I would put a socket on the balancer bolt and turn the engine a little both ways to see if you can detect anything. Before removing the head, I would spin the engine with the spark plugs removed, and see if you can figure out where the noise is coming from. Starter / flywheel, oil pan, valve cover? If that doesn't help, you will have to dig in deeper. Good luck

 

[DON]

You could check the oil for metal in it. That would tell you if it is inside the engine.
I couldn’t tell too much from the videos.
If it helps, I don’t think the late timing would have caused it. It usually causes a hot condition.
Sorry man!! Real bummer!!

 

[vssman]

Oil coming from the back of the engine - did you put sealant on the flywheel bolts? The holes in the crank are through holes exposed to oil. I’d start with checking that the flywheel is tight.

 

[drag-200stang]

I tried to search your posts to learn more about what you have done, but I am blocked.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

@B RON CO thank you! See, for some reason I didn’t even think of that yesterday!

@DON one video (3478) is it’s running in the morning, when all was fine. The other video (3482) is after I got the car towed back to my garage. There is knocking sound, but I shut off the engine almost right away

@vssman yes, I put sealant on the flywheel bolts. The oil sipping only appeared afterwards. I’ve been checking for any leaks after each start and each drive.

@drag-200stang here is the link for my intro post and some other questions I’ve been asking https://fordsix.com/threads/novice-here-mustang-64-5.88863/

 

[drag-200stang]

It could be a lot of things but on the second vid it sounds like it could be a lose flywheel but when driving at speed it will not make much noise but a a idle it will knock bad. Check under the valve cover to see if something is broken or off. Had something go down the carb. and it also sounded like that at all speeds. Did you get diesel in your gas some how.
Take you time finding the problem, do not take apart more than necessary to find.

 

[powerband]

start with checking what you did last ...

 

[awasson]

Man… I so sorry to hear that something is wrong with that engine. The first video sounds great. I don’t think this has anything to do with the retarded timing but I do think you might have a vacuum leak that is causing that high idle issue.

It sounds to me like the knock is coming from under the valve cover and not from the bottom end. I hope that is the case anyway. It seems to turn over quite nicely so I am a little more confident that the bottom end is ok. Have you removed the valve cover yet? That is where I would start. Check under the distributor cap too.

I wouldn’t be too worried about the oil in the catch can. You’ve got some ways to go yet before the rings are set and the blow by will settle down.

Crossing my fingers that it’s something loose under the valve cover or maybe lose flywheel or something like that.

 

[pmuller9]

It sounds to me like the knock is coming from under the valve cover and not from the bottom end. I hope that is the case anyway. It seems to turn over quite nicely so I am a little more confident that the bottom end is ok. Have you removed the valve cover yet? That is where I would start.

I agree with checking under the valve cover first.

 

[jgregg13]

Curious as to what you find under the valve cover. Look for coil bind, broken spring, dropped valve, low lift on one or more valves, bent pushrod, etc, etc. If you've wiped out a cam lobe, there will be metal in the oil. Cut the oil filter apart looking for metallic evidence. Hope you find the culprit soon.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Thank you everyone! I guess in the moment I’ve entered a stage of disappointment, that I screwed up something, but didn’t have time to go dig what happened.
Anyway, decided not to pull the engine out
JK, took @drag-200stang and @awasson advice of taking apart as needed and started with valve cover and boom…broken arm on the first cylinder.
All pieces were there, I’ve tried putting them together as careful as I could (to see if there were missing broken off pieces) and it seems that everything stayed under the valve cover. Can’t see any other small pieces broken off from there and everything puzzles back together.
After that, I removed spark plugs and fuel pump - engine spins freely and can’t hear any weird noises.

I think I’ll still drain the oil and inspect the oil filter to see if I find anything there. I haven’t changed oil after first start up, so I’m assuming I can find some metal shavings. Correct me if I’m wrong pls.

Aside from that, anything else I should check?

Should I be looking for a whole rocker arm assembly, or can I get just one arm replaced?

 

[WillingnessLimp]

But while taking things apart, I’ve got another concern now - my carb.
After initial break in and when I realized that my transmission does not shift into gear, I put car on stands to remove the trans - and noticed at that time, that my carb was leaking gas at the spacer area (spacer came with 2 thin gaskets glued to it and i didn’t use any other gaskets). I don’t know if that is normal, but I assume that it happened when I was lifting the car from one side and everything was tilted.
Now, when I was removing it, the spacer with glued gaskets was soaked in gas, adapter had gas on it as well (flat gasket surface) and inside intake manifold was little puddle of gas. Is that normal? Or should I be concerned about?

 

[Frank]

Broken/damaged rocker arm usually from incorrect lash adjustment. Usually too loose, the parts are "slamming" together. Oil starvation is another possible cause. Pushrods need to be checked for bent also. Rolling them on glass is a good way to know if they're straight.

Yes there will be fine metal in the oil, normal. Any larger pieces = concern.

Is you fuel pressure too high for the Weber carb? Does your fuel system allow pressure to bleed off after engine is off?

 

[DON]

I would try to determine if there was a physical reason it broke, I know it’s unlikely one cylinder did and not the others- but it did break. If the head isn’t pulled, I would try to flush any debris out of the push rod galley, maybe kerosene. I think I would feel better pulling the head, check the top of the piston for valve impact. Check -at least- the one valve for restricted movement. Recheck all valves for spring bind. And check anything else you can think of.
This may sound like overkill but it will give you peace of mind when you fire it again…. Well, maybe a little bit

 

[TrickSix]

Should I be looking for a whole rocker arm assembly, or can I get just one arm replaced?

Someone around here might have one in a misc. junk box. You can often find a single rocker on eBay, more often NOS than a single used one. Watch out for a whole used assembly on eBay, they are often completely worn out. How tight are your arms on the shaft, lots of wiggle room or no? O'Reilly's has new shafts reasonably priced, a machine shop could re-bush the arms for you.

 

[frozenrabbit]

Since you are going to have to pull the entire rocker assembly, I'd double check for any bent rods. I thought for a second that it could be improper lash, but you have non-adjustable rockers. Possibly just a defect in the rocker casting. Look for voids in the casting across the fracture. Are you running heavier valve springs than stock?

Do check the oil and filter.

On an up note, WAY better to find an issue right under the valve cover than on the bottom side!

 

[WillingnessLimp]

@Frank my rocker arm is non adjustable and I got all new push rods.
As for the carb issue - I don’t have a fuel pressure gauge before or after the pressure regulator - should probably check that as well. I have Holley fuel pressure regulator 1-4 psi, which comes preset from factory to 2.7-2.8 psi. The only thing is that it takes up to 7 psi inlet pressure - not sure how much mechanical fuel pump puts out.
And I’m not sure about pressure bleed off…is there should be a valve or anything like that? Now I have mechanical fuel pump into fuel pressure regulator and then into carb.

@DON I will probably pull the head off. Better safe than sorry…again
Springs are not stock, but that’s the one that were recommended by Nic at ClaySmith Cams. And he said I can run them with non adjustable rocker arm. https://claysmithcams.com/valve-spring-set-single-spring-5-000-rpm-and-under/

@TrickSix I got new shaft, when I was cleaning up the rocker arm assembly. My only concern is that the studs were hard to put on, but arms were good and moving freely.

@frozenrabbit i didn’t check all the rods, but they were brand new before installation. I did roll the one that broke off and it seemed straight. And yes, heavier springs that were recommended by Clay Smith.

 

[drag-200stang]

,Replace bad rocker do a compression test on all cylinders to see if valves are sealing well.
When reinstalling rocker assembly make sure that the pushrods stay down in the lifter cup, is is easy for them to get out of place and ride up higher on the top edge of lifter and then you can bottom out rocker with interference with spring or retainer to top of valve guide and break rocker or push rod. look for dent in pushrod lifter end ball.
Make sure that you have good oiling to the front rockers, the oil comes from the rear. poor oiling can make rocker or valve stick and then the push rod will do the out of place pushrod thing above.
One other thing to check is that nothing got ingested into that cylinder that could also cause these issues. look in spark plug hole and look for signs, a scope/camera are fairly cheap these days.

 

[frozenrabbit]

Several available on e-bay, NOS OEM and Sealed Power.

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