All Small Six Help! Did I just screw up my new build?

[awasson]

Another update:
Fired up the car tonight. Fuel pressure is good - steady 2.5 psi now.
Engine wouldn’t stay running unless I open up the throttle like half way. And it was running very rough and I think it was misfiring badly. Timing was set to TDC, but I moved it a bit to about 8-10 degrees.
I haven’t checked the spark on spark plugs yet, @sixtseventwo4d got me a bit scared with under hood fumes and I chickened out lol (had a fire in the garage 5 years ago, so having ptsd after that ).
Eventually engine died and I didn’t want to crank more - didn’t want to flood it again.
Removed spark plugs and checked cylinders - #6 had some gas again, so I cranked without ignition and fuel line disconnected to get everything out. I think because it sits slanted towards the back it just drains there.
Spark plugs got all dark (left to right from #1).

Planning on coming back to check the spark tomorrow, after everything is aired out.
I’m concerned about cyl 6, as the wire clamp to spark plug became undone once - I fixed it, but maybe it became undone again.

I do think now it’s the time to check everything with the dizzy.

Should I try new spark plugs as well?
I have autolite ap45 now

Glad to hear it. I’m assuming you’re now using an electric fuel pump?

I don’t understand why you have to crank the carb open like that to keep it going. My Weber 38/38 would be at redline if I held the carb half open out of gear. Clogged jets will cause that kind of trouble but your carb just arrived and I think you’ve gone through it to ensure it’s in good shape.

Your plugs should be tan or light tan.

Do you have the vacuum advance on the carb blocked off? If you’re not using vacuum advance put your initial timing at about 20 degrees; you can adjust it and really dial it in later. These engines want a ton of timing at idle. Mine is at 22 degrees at idle with initial of 12 degrees plus vacuum advance of 10 degrees from manifold vacuum.

You think it’s misfiring? Popping through the carb or the exhaust? Were you lifters making any clacking noise?

You might still be too tight on the lifter preload. If the valves aren’t closing you would absolutely have to have the carb pinned open to keep it idling and it would eventually die and not want to start until it cooled and the metal contracted again.

 

[63 Sprint]

WillingnessLimp,

Please be as detailed as you can on any changes that were done, and document all changes.


Question:
Are you still using a mechanical fuel pump?


Please verify:
Engine timing


Simple test:
Here is a test that I would like you to do.
Pull the plugs and air out the cylinders and intake manifold. Then work on getting the engine running again. As soon as the engine starts running, take a pair of vise-grips or C-clamp and block (pinch) off the rubber fuel line at the carburetor. What you will be doing is stopping the carburetors fuel supply. Now listen to the engine. The engine will quickly run out of fuel and a severely rich fueled engine should start going lean and start operating smoother before it stalls out. If this happens, the fault is the carburetor or the fuel supply. (It could possibly be both)

 

[WillingnessLimp]

@awasson @63 Sprint
Here is some additional info:
- still running mechanical fuel pump
- I've changed fine filter location to after the fuel pressure regulator and right before the carb
- fuel pressure shows steady 2.5 psi, no more jumping up to 4-4.5psi at cranking. After the car dies, fuel pressure was holding steady at 2.5 psi for some time
- maybe I went overboard about 1/2 throttle open to keep the engine running, but definitely around 1/3 of the throttle or above. Stays at high rpms, but not red zone (can't see my tach from that location - but will try to move tach around tonight, so I can see it while holding the throttle)
- timing it set approximate: dropping dizzy at TDC, then moving crank to 10 degrees advance (against normal engine rotation) and setting dizzy to #1 cylinder. I can't really connect timing light yet - I have to hold throttle open to keep the engine running. Of course I can adjust the idle speed screw to keep throttle at that level, but I feel like I'm gonna do more damage to the engine if I keep it running at higher rpm without any warm up
- I put back my non adjustable rocker arm - for now just wanted to exclude possibility of hang open valves and solve running issue
- took plugs out last night and cranked the engine to remove any leftover gas (fuel line disconnected)
Edit: @awasson yes, I’m running the carb with vacuum plugged and nothing is connected to dizzy

@awasson honestly, didn't focus on any clanking noise from lifters, was just trying to keep the engine running. But also engine was running at higher rpms, so its loud and I might have totally missed any irregular sounds.

@63 Sprint thank for the test suggestion - I will try it tonight. I will also pick up fresh spark plugs and will go with regular copper ones (Autolite 45).

Something that I noticed last night as well (not sure if that matters). As I posted pics of my cylinders in Post #42 and Post #43 you can see a lot of carbon build up after short time (maybe 20-30 miles driving on the new rebuild). Now that I'm looking down my cylinders, I see a lot of that build up is gone. My assumption is that all that extra fuel from flooding and sitting in the cylinders got it loose and it started to burn off. Maybe that's why my plugs are so black now? Also, could those particles have possibly damaged or preventing valves from properly closing?

I will try to take a video tonight of starting the engine.

 

[DON]

I think it is unlikely that it caused a problem with the valves seating

 

[awasson]

- I put back my non adjustable rocker arm - for now just wanted to exclude possibility of hang open valves and solve running issue

With everything else going on, that's a good idea. You can always swap them back when you get this sorted out.

Something that I noticed last night as well (not sure if that matters). As I posted pics of my cylinders in Post #42 and Post #43 you can see a lot of carbon build up after short time (maybe 20-30 miles driving on the new rebuild). Now that I'm looking down my cylinders, I see a lot of that build up is gone. My assumption is that all that extra fuel from flooding and sitting in the cylinders got it loose and it started to burn off. Maybe that's why my plugs are so black now? Also, could those particles have possibly damaged or preventing valves from properly closing?

I doubt that's the cause of the dark plugs but yes, gasoline is a wonderful solvent and probably cleaned those piton tops, valves and combustion chambers right off. I'm not concerned that the debris would cause any trouble with the valves closing though.

- timing it set approximate: dropping dizzy at TDC, then moving crank to 10 degrees advance (against normal engine rotation) and setting dizzy to #1 cylinder. I can't really connect timing light yet - I have to hold throttle open to keep the engine running. Of course I can adjust the idle speed screw to keep throttle at that level, but I feel like I'm gonna do more damage to the engine if I keep it running at higher rpm without any warm up

It could be that your timing is grossly advanced or retarded if you dropped it a tooth ahead or behind. You ought to get a timing light on it so you can figure out where you are at.

I've put some tape on my distributor shaft and the block with markings so I know where 10 degrees initial and 14 degrees initial are. I know my vacuum advance adds 10 degrees and I've confirmed it with my Sears timing light. That way I can very quickly set my timing to 10, 12 and 14 degrees which makes 10, 22, 24 degrees at idle because I'm using manifold vacuum.

Do you have your manifold vacuum plugged and the PCV opening on the valve cover open? You might as well leave the PCV out of the equation and have all sources of vacuum leaks plugged until you have it running correctly.

My suggestion would be:

• Find out what your timing is. It should idle without dying at +10° but it'll be happier idling at +20° - +24°.
• Base carb settings: idle/air screws turned out from zero 1.5 turns each, with 55 idle jets and the idle screw around half a turn in.
• ensure there are no vacuum leaks so remove the PCV and vacuum advance. Plug the vacuum advance port on the carb.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

It could be that your timing is grossly advanced or retarded if you dropped it a tooth ahead or behind. You ought to get a timing light on it so you can figure out where you are at.

Andrew, everything makes sense and tonight I’m planning to double check the float level (googled about float level issues/flooding and a lot of issues come up similar to what I’m experiencing)

This thing about one tooth off is the only thing I cannot agree on. And please correct me if I’m wrong (I actually recently was looking up about this).
So I’m dropping distributor with first piston at TDC and noting where the rotor is pointing. Then I’m rotating my distributor and lining up the mark for the first cylinder on it to the rotor. That’s pretty much zero advance. Because on DUI distributor you can rotate the body 360 degrees and the cap can only be put one way, you can always get to that number one cylinder, where the rotor is pointing by rotating the body. And then from there rotate distributor body counterclockwise to give it advance. So technically, that “tooth off” is just for where you want your #1 cyl to be - so all my wires can reach the cylinders.

https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/can-a-distributor-really-be-one-tooth-off-lets-discuss-this.782429/

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Here is the latest:
- put all new spark plugs (Autolite 45)
- checked the float level again - all good (18mm and 24mm)
- adjusted spark plug wire #6 - the sleeve was a bit long and suspect to not fully latching into the spark plug
- checked spark for all cylinders - all good there
- fuel pressure was a bit below 2.5 psi

I'm going to add a link to videos with start up - I apologize in advance for 5 min video. Engine starts at about 1 min mark.
The car started, but agin didn't want to stay running - I was holding the throttle. Somewhere in the middle of the video you can see the engine was running at more or less constant rpms - I was able to take a peak at the tach and it was at 1,000 rpm. But the throttle was still about 1/3 open - to keep it running.
As @awasson mentioned, maybe the timing is off a lot. You can see me trying to manipulate dizzy and when I back it up (counterclockwise) the engine at least smoothed out a bit (but still only running while I hold the throttle open).
@63 Sprint I was not able to perform your suggested test...completely forgot to put locking pliers next to me. Same for the timing light - wasn't next to me.
For second video I grabbed everything next to me, but it wouldn't start. Didn't crank further as I didn't want to flood the engine again.

Also adding a picture of new spark plugs after that run. I guess it's hard to judge them because engine is not running properly.

Video of the first start

Second attempt