HELP! engine wont start!

[JoeJoe44]

Ok. so i got a total engine rebuilt on my 200 with upgraded cam and rocker arms. Im running the trip weber set up with a fuel pressure regulator and carter 4070 fuel pump. stock exhaust manifold is on for now till i break the engine in then then im putting the hooker headers in. I have a DUI ignition. I also replaced the entire wiring harness while the engine was out.

when i turn the key the engine turns over but one start. i know the DUI is firing bc i stuck a timing light on it to see. Gas is making it all the way bc the plugs are damp when i took them out. And the exhaust pipe is warm meaning there is some kind of combustion going on. It does kind of sound like its backfiring when i turn the key.

Any ideas? Bad Gas? Webers not tuned?

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

Double check your Timing ,

 

[Frankenstang]

Ok. so i got a total engine rebuilt on my 200 with upgraded cam and rocker arms. Im running the trip weber set up...

First thought that comes to mind, is the dizzy stabbed correctly...not 180* out?

Right after that I'm wondering if your newly rebuilt engine has ever been run before? If not, I don't think you'd want to do the initial start-up and cam run in with the trip webers. I would think it would be better to cap the outboard carbs and do the initial start-up and cam run in with one well tuned center carb. Plugs being 'damp' could be a result of you dumping way, way too much fuel to do the first start on a rebuilt engine with rings not seated. I'd pull the dipstick and see if you don't have a strong fuel smell/content in the oil. Just my $.02
Good luck!

 

[Lazy JW]

Double check your Timing ,

Yup, also make certain that the plug wires are installed for the correct distributor rotation; I have also been known to leave the rotor out........
Joe

 

[fordconvert]

Im thinking like Robert, If this is has not been broke in yet and the tripe carb setup has not run before it would be best to get it running with a known good an adjusted carb. The chances of getting a proper break in with a new fuel and ignition system are very slim. Ignition is not so bad since you can pretty much set the timing by feel since all you are trying to do is keep it running. Fuel is another story especially on a complex multi carb setup. Problem with a carb is for the break in you are off the idle circuit so changing the mixture usually requires taking the carb apart to change jets. Not something you can do while running at 2000 R's. Most dyno shops I have seen have a selection of trusty old carbs on the shelf just for break in. After the break in is when the customers setup goes back on and gets tweaked.

 

[gtm1086]

1 Check plug wires
2. is the distributor 180 out
3. Are you valves to tight. No Lash

 

[JoeJoe44]

2. is the distributor 180 out

I dont really know what you mean by this.

I the carbs are tuned to what they are suppose to be (idle mixture and speed screws are all the way closed on the outside ones, and the idle mixture screw is two turns out and the speed screw is 4 turns out on the center carb).

I also took the old gas out and put new in.

timing is set to tdc.

I have up sized the jets on the carbs.

All the spark plug wires are in their appropriate spot.

 

[redxm]

2. is the distributor 180 out

I dont really know what you mean by this.

The dizzy may be aligned to no 1 TDC, BUT not on the compression stroke. It may be trying to fire when the valves are open.
pop the dizzy out rotate the engine once then drop the dizzy back in

I also know that if you have the dizzy set to TDC they dont want to run. Align the crank pulley to 6 degrees, not TDC when you drop the dizzy in and use the mark on the dizzy to align it.

 

[balaso]

The dizzy may be aligned to no 1 TDC, BUT not on the compression stroke. It may be trying to fire when the valves are open.
pop the dizzy out rotate the engine once then drop the dizzy back in

This was a problem I had when I first got ahold of my 200. I changed the dist. and goofed on the positioning and experienced the same issues. Doing the above got me running...

 

[Frankenstang]

The chances of getting a proper break in with a new fuel and ignition system are very slim.

Yep, I think this is definitely worth considering if the engine is freshly rebuilt (ie never broke in)...proper break in first (fairly crucial)...properly tuned for long term setup, second. No offense, but I'm curious why you say you know the tri-power setup is tuned properly and is this mainly based on the idle/mix settings you quoted? Like TJ mentioned, a/f mix on the tri-power is heavily dependent on jetting, and IIRC most spend some time with a wideband getting it dialed in properly. Seems every build is a little different, and even if the tri-power came off a running engine with the exact same setup...I just don't think it would be wise to use it for break in if rings not seated=weaker vacuum, upgraded/performance cam=weaker vacuum, tri-power setup=multiple potential vacuum leaks. All the suggestions in this thread are possibilities, but if it were me...I'd simplify this one particularly complicated one.

Another idea, and it's just a thought, you might want to add the word 'tri-power' to your 'Help' subject line to solicit others' experiences getting them running (ie mustang6, John G, 64falconsix...among others), and consider searching the term as well.

If you're sure you're stabbed at tdc, but not sure if you're 180" out then the dizzy rotor could be pointing to number 1 when it should be pointing to number 6 or vice versa. Again, if you're sure you're stabbed at tdc then make a mark on dizzy housing at #1 & #6, then bump starter till it's pointing at either mark, pull dizzy, rotate rotor and restab dizzy so it's pointing to the opposite mark (180* degrees around the horn).

 

[fordconvert]

Bump the starter with the #1 plug out and your thumb over the plug hole. Watch the timing mark. When it comes around to the mark if its on the exhaust stroke you wont feel anything. If / when its on the compression stroke it will push air out the hole and push your thumb off, this is where you want it with the dizzy pointed to #1.

 

[69.5Mav]

I dont really know what you mean by this.

The crank makes two rotations for every one rotation of the cam. All the cylinders in a motor fire once for every rotation of the cam. As a consequence of this the crank makes two complete rotations for every ignition event (four stroke engine). So the piston comes to TDC twice for every combustion event, once at the completion of the compression stroke and once at the completion of the exhaust stroke. I you inserted your distributor at TDC of the exhaust stroke you will fire the spark plug at the end of the exhaust stroke and the engine won't start.

Most experienced engine people have made this mistake at one time or another including me. Every one has their own way to detect this.

I remove the valve cover and the distributor cap and watch what the valves are doing in relation to the distributor rotor as I rotate the engine in the proper direction. If the rotor is in the number one position during the completion of the exhaust stroke (the exhaust valve is just closing as the crank pulley is rotating up to TDC) then you are 180 out.

An easy way to confirm this is to reinstall your spark plug wires 180 out (install number one directly across the distributor cap and arrange the rest keying off number ones new position) and then try to start the engine. If it does you've found your problem. If not keep looking but return the wires to their normal position.

If you are 180 out you should pull the distributor and reinstall it correctly.

 

[sparkyj]

Just checking: Is a 200 a left hand rotation? (clockwise when facing engine compartment looking toward rear of car)

 

[JoeJoe44]

it was 180* out. thanx guys.

 

[wallaka]

Ha! I have learned to check that first thing.

 

[Lazy JW]

Just checking: Is a 200 a left hand rotation? (clockwise when facing engine compartment looking toward rear of car)

Yes. Just look at the fan.