Hey everyone! -- Give me ideas to get my 223 running right

[Anonymous]

I'll introduce myself, being it's my first post:

My name is Luke, and I'm from central Iowa. I recently bought a 1954 Ford Mainline.

It's all stock, 223, 3 spd manual, 65xxx miles.

If you would like to see it, visit here:

http://www.whiteboard.net/~luke/54ford/june_9th/index.html


Here's a rundown of my issues:

My car hasn't run correctly since I bought it (as in never)

I've been trying everything I can think of to get my '54 223 engine to idle correctly. It runs rough and won't idle with the choke off.

Anyway, with the choke on only slightly, and idling low, I pull about 18" of vacuum out of the intake manifold port (windshield wipers)

This seems a bit low, but the needle isn't fluctuating as if I had burned valves or anything, so I'm guessing piston rings are worn?

Compression is about 110 psi in all cylinders.

The engine refuses to run right, and I've done about everything I know how, trying to get it idling. The carb has been taken apart and cleaned about 4 times now, I just put on a new intake/exhaust manifold gasket. I've got totally new ignition components (coil, wires, rotor, cap, condenser)

The thing likes to run REALLY advanced. I'm talking way off scale, as in 20 degrees or more. I have the distributor turned as far as it will go until the vacuum advance is resting against the engine block...

And as far as I can tell, the dizzy is NOT off by a tooth, because at TDC the rotor is pointing at #1...

I've tried to find an obvious vaccum leak and can't track anything down. I'm wondering if the face of the head or the manifolds are warped though.. I'm getting inconclusive tests when I spray WD 40 on the manifold while the car is running.

So, I'm askin for help


I can upload some crappy video of the vacuum gauge while the car was running.

 

[277 I6]

If you have not checked top dead center to see if the timeing mark is still on.

 

[Anonymous]

If you have not checked top dead center to see if the timeing mark is still on.

I have checked the piston at 0 degrees, and it is at TDC.

I think the problem might be that the manifolds are tweaked from the previous owner having them overtorqued to the cylinderhead.

I got them sealed up at 28 ft/lb which is at top spec..

I tried a new coil tonight and it seemed to make a LITTLE difference.

The thing still won't idle.. I'd like to get ahold of a known working Holley 1904.

I wasn't finding any vacuum leaks tonight though after i retorqued the manifold.. I'm stumped. I suppose it could be a wiring issue? The car has the original wiring, and 6volt setup. (battery is fully charged)

Here's something I'm concerned with. I put in 10w40 oil, but it seems REALLY thin already (I've only run the car about 30 minutes since changing it probably)

I'm pretty sure it's not coolant, but it could be gas getting in there??

That, or maybe since the dipstick is so wide and more oil gets on it than my modern car, it just drips off more??

 

[Lazy JW]

Do you have the correct polarity on the coil? '54 Ford is positive ground, so the + side of the coil needs to connect to the distributor. Is the oil level increasing? The fuel pump can leak oil into the crankcase.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

Do you have the correct polarity on the coil? '54 Ford is positive ground, so the + side of the coil needs to connect to the distributor. Is the oil level increasing? The fuel pump can leak oil into the crankcase.
Joe

I've got the coil hooked up right. I have the positive side running to the distributor.

The OEM coil says "batt" "dist" so it takes the guess work out, but yeah, I got it on right.

Yikes! This is my first manual fuel pump car, so I hadn't thought about that.

The oil I removed from the car when I bought it smelled like kerosene, and this stuff is pretty thin. The level isn't up that I notice, but how can I check to see if the fuel pump is leaking gas into the oil?

The pump appears to be keeping the carburator full (I have the clear sight glass on it)

And the inline fuel filter has gas in it too.

 

[Lazy JW]

Typically the first sign of a leaky fuel pump is increasing oil level. I would change the oil again just to get the old stuff flushed out. Since you have already verified the timing marks being good, it is time to verify the cam timing. With valve cover removed, pull all of the spark plugs (for safety and ease of turning) and observe the valve action while slowly turning the engine by hand. Note when the intake just starts to open and make a small pencil mark on the timing pulley. Shortly after that the exhaust valve should close. Make another mark there. They should be equal distances from the TDC mark. This is best done with a dial indicator, but if you are careful it can be pretty accurate by eyeball method. What you are checking for is if the cam is a tooth or so off. Good luck.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this advice. I have yet to pull the camshaft cover because I don't know where I can buy a new gasket for it.

At Napa, what would that gasket be called, so I can ask the salespeople to get me a new one?

I have adjusted valve lash to .019 on intake/exhaust (per service manual specs)

Also, would you happen to know where I could pick up a gear timing set for this car? I know the police interceptor and taxi models had them, and I thought maybe in the real world parts market, the timing on this engine crosswalked with something more common anyway?

Thanks for you help!


Luke

 

[Lazy JW]

No need to pull the timing cover just yet unless you really want to. I would call it a timing cover gasket. They will probably have to order it as there isn't a lot of demand for engine parts that old. Chances are the cam timing is Ok but at this point you don't want to assume anything. With 110psi compression it should run fine but there is always the chance that it wasn't assembled correctly, that is why I recommend the quick check of the valve action. If it is a tooth off it is pretty easy to spot. Not sure what you mean about the gear set, I'm not familiar with this engine. Does it use a timing chain? If so, a simple two gear set will require a new cam as the rotation will be backwards, a gear set with idlers would be needed to use the same cam.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

No need to pull the timing cover just yet unless you really want to. I would call it a timing cover gasket. They will probably have to order it as there isn't a lot of demand for engine parts that old. Chances are the cam timing is Ok but at this point you don't want to assume anything. With 110psi compression it should run fine but there is always the chance that it wasn't assembled correctly, that is why I recommend the quick check of the valve action. If it is a tooth off it is pretty easy to spot. Not sure what you mean about the gear set, I'm not familiar with this engine. Does it use a timing chain? If so, a simple two gear set will require a new cam as the rotation will be backwards, a gear set with idlers would be needed to use the same cam.
Joe

I mean gear timing as in no chain, where you have 4 gears (the two big ones, and the two small ones in the middle.. that make the annoying gearhead whine) The 'police interceptor' section of my service manual mentions their use for cop cars and taxis.

Being that my gasoline is likely leaking into my crank case from a faulty fuel pump, I put a new one on order (will arrive tonight)...

I have my fingers crossed that maybe the problem was that fuel pressure was not high enough to the carb, creating a lean condition, and thus the reason it runs advanced?? The carb bowl was not noticibly emptying though, so who knows...

We'll know after tonight. I'm going to change out the oil and the fuel pump.

 

[Lazy JW]

Yup, the gear set in the picture has the idlers that I mentioned. Still pondering your problem with the timing needing so much advance. This probably has a "vacuum only" distributor. Is the advance mechanism working properly? The vacuum diaphragms on these can rupture, causing all sorts of fits.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, the gear set in the picture has the idlers that I mentioned. Still pondering your problem with the timing needing so much advance. This probably has a "vacuum only" distributor. Is the advance mechanism working properly? The vacuum diaphragms on these can rupture, causing all sorts of fits.
Joe

I've been timing it without the vacuum advance hooked up, like the book says to do.

I have the vac port plugged at the carburator and the VA line removed from the car presently.

I just put in my new fuel pump tonight and my battery didn't want to turn her over??? I was messing with a brake light issue last night and hope I dont have a minor current draw on the switch (got it on the charger now)

 

[Lazy JW]

I've had those old pressure style switches fail where it would leave the brake lights on. Dead battery every time. There is still something fishy about your timing problem. I would verify the cam timing before doing much else.
Joe

 

[277 I6]

If your car has a police/taxis it will have two gears one on the cam one on the crank.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to leave you guys hanging. This past month I've been working and spending money fixing up my house. Mid month I happened to find a NOS Holley 1904 for my Ford on ebay.

I took it apart tonight to verify it was complete and the rubber was all good, and everything was a go. I installed it, and wahlah.. The car idles smoother than my '94 Ford F150.

I can't believe I was SO sure the old carb was good. Really, the only piece missing was the ball that resides in the vacuum advance circuit that blocks airflow based on engine RPM between two vacuum ports.

I'm still not sure if that was causing my problems or not, but now I'm looking forward to my day off Friday to tune the carb and see if I can finally take a little trip in this beast (It's the first time I've had it run smooth since I bought it in June)

Thanks for the leads,

Luke

 

[Lazy JW]

Thanks for the feedback. Let us know how it runs after a trip.
Joe

 

[Anonymous]

Well, after putting 50 miles on the car in the last 3 days, I'd say I'm getting use to driving it. The fuel filters keep plugging up with rust sludge out of the fuel tank, but other than that it seems to be doing great.

(I have a filter before the fuel pump, and one before the carburator)


Here's some pics from the road... The electrical system is all stock and still works (headlights and all that) so I've been driving around at night.

A pic I shared with my grandparents: (just to impress them with my mechanical prowess..)

And finally, the plugs after 50 miles of running:

Seems to be going pretty well so far. Especially on an original '54 car with no new parts.

 

[addo]

Not a bad look on the plugs! Sounds like the rusty sludge is your biggest worry overall.