I got my new head delivered today!

[Mercury Mike]

It's casting code C9DE-6090-M. What year is that? And it should have hardened valve seats, right? It came with an adapter because it has a 1 3/4 carb throat, and the adapter makes it 1 1/2 so I can use it. The thing that I'm wondering about... I have this carter for 1 barrel fords... and it doesn't fit the 1 3/4 OR the 1 1/2... Is it some random carb that I can't use? If this carb will flow better, have hardened valve seats and such, I will swap it. If not I will save it until I need it!

 

[Anonymous]

C9 = 1969

D3 = 1973

E0 = 1980

and so on and so on

And it should have hardened valve seats, right?

Unless they have been replaced with hardened.....Nope.

 

[Mercury Mike]

Ah very cool, that's what I was thinking. '69 had the flat top log? This head is real good looking. I'm kind of looking forward to running it on something. =)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm kind of looking forward to running it on something. =)

You bought a head by itself with no engine to put it on?? :

 

[Mercury Mike]

No! Haha! I was having problems blowing head gaskets on my 200, and the place I bought my crate engine from has a great warranty service. The compression was too high. I am gonna swap over to this head when I get the chance, but I will be okay until I get that chance. =) I'm on my 3rd head gasket... in about... 8k or 9k miles. So... with the timing perfect and such, a good head gasket torque down... Should be fun to run it! =) They sent me the head for free as a replacement.

 

[Anonymous]

What head are you removing?

I edited the above post but you were too fast....69 heads don't have hardened seats

 

[Mercury Mike]

How can I tell if they put hardened seats in it or not? It's a '65 head. I will have some heads to play around with and machine for the 2 barrel. =) I have like 3 blocks, 5 heads... just laying around waiting to be played with! I'm building a 200 for my grandpa's '65, my buddy's '73 benz, got a head for my engine, got 2 heads for my grandpa's engine, the benz's engine is built and ready to drop in, we have a 200 that's IN my gpa's '65, and a couple that are just sitting stripped next to a bucket of their pistons and such. It's crazy!

 

[phoenix02]

Sit on the head. If it hurts, it's hardened.


...sorry. I'm bored.

 

[addo]

Easiest way to pick a hardened seat, is remove one exhaust valve and look at the seat area. See if there appears to be an insert. Also, some hardened seats are staked in with a few punch applications around the rim - less common, though.

 

[woodbutcher]

IIRC,did`nt they induction harden exhaust valve seats at some point in time?If this is the case with the head under discussion,there won`t be an insert.
Leo

 

[Redfalken]

I'm working on an `82 Faimont head and when I picked it up from getting magnafluxed, the machinist noted the seats were induction hardened. I'm putting in oversized stainless valves from FSPP so I'll have them put in hardened seat inserts.

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

One of the Experten will no doubt come in and correct me if Im wrong but the I6 heads didnt get hardened valve seats til 1975.

Heads made before that with hardened seats are probably rebuilds who had them added or production stocks used in early motors which had seats added.

 

[Anonymous]

8)
One of the Experten will no doubt come in and correct me if Im wrong but the I6 heads didnt get hardened valve seats til 1975.

Maybe 1974...whatever year cat converters started to arrive. The need to run unleaded gas (to keep the cat alive) brought hardened seats with it. Personally, I would be surprised to see factory hardened seats before '74

 

[Hot 6t Falcon]

You probably are experienced enough to know all of this stuff, but there are lots of others lurking that might pick up a tip or two. I like to do this stuff right off so I don't blow a gasket.

Since you have blown several gaskets, some extra precautions are in order.

1.) Use harden steel washers on the head bolts. Pioneer sells a pack (S-1018) of 34 washers for around $5.00 that are .040" thick. ARP's 200-8512 are .120" thick but they are over $20. Mr. Gasket has a packet too, but I could find the part # or price.

2.) Use a "bottoming tap" (it has a squared end as compared to a regular tap's pointed end) to chase all of the headbolt bolt holes in the block. Try to get as much crap out of the bottom of the holes as possible - especially in the area that the previous gaskets have blown.

3.) Invest in a set of ARP head bolts. (I think Mike at FSPP has them on hand) After repeated use, the old bolts may be stretching too much to do their job any more.

4.) If you are using a "clicker" torque wrench, re-calibrate it. They way to do this is to set it to tighten a bolt to say 60#. Then use a beam torgue wrench (the kind with the little pointer) to check to see if your bolt is at 60#. If it is not, adjust the "Clicker" wrench. Best bet is to just use a beam type wrench from the get go. They don't look as high techie, but they are consistant.

I, for one, would like you to CC the 1965 and the 1969 heads Is the 1965 a 170 head? They have a "Kidney bean" shape and a 200 head has a "D" shape for the combustion chamber. Sit and look at the C9 head and compare the chamber to the C5 head. A small cc 170 head would probably be abou an 10.4 to 1 compression. After you know the CC's of the two heads you can go to the "Compression Calculator" on the web site in my signature and find out exactly what you were dealing with.

Good Luck.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy All:

Induction seat hardening begin to appear on D4 castings on the intake valves only. D5 castings frequently got induction hardening on both intake and exhaust seats. Hardened seats, both intake and exhaust, are a good bet in D7 castings with the increase in intake size. As always with Ford, never say always. The change is impossible to date. A D7 casting, with 1.75" intake valves is a good indication that this head will have hardened valve seats. If an earlier head has hardened inserts it has likely been rebuilt and had inserts added.

It is difficult to determine if induction hardening has occurred in a stock IEM head since it is a heat treatment of the cast head metal. If the area of the seat is very clean ocassionally some discoloration is visable. Induction hardening is not a very deep process. When in doubt have hardened seat inserts installed and end the worry.

The tricky part of the casting code is that a C5xx was used on both 170s & 200, but only the castings used on the 170 have the smaller, kidney bean chamber. The only way to, for sure, identify a "Kidney bean" chambered head is visual ID. Measuring volume/cubic centimeters can help if the head has not already been machined. The mysteries of casting codes continues to unfold. Casting codes are a good generality, but exceptions constantly appear.

The C9xx ('69) casting with the "M" suffix is a fairly sure indication that this was a flat-topped log head with a 1.75" carb hole. These heads can be found on both 200s and 250s.

What brand head gaskets have you been using? When removed what area of the head gasket shows the damage? Do any of the head bolts show signs of bottoming when removed?

Adios, David

 

[Mercury Mike]

Thanks for the GREAT info!!!