All Small Six I switched to DUI distributor and 1101 carb. Now I need a new linkage?

This relates to all small sixes
G

gocorcoran

New member
Ugh, thought this would be somewhat straightforward and it was - Until I got hung up on the last step... Starting the car. Gas pedal won't move more than ~1/3 of travel! The 1101 throttle connection moves right to left, my 1100 moved up and down. I did not see the need to change throttle linkage anywhere in the upgrade info! Just spent some time trying to locate any info on how to adapt the linkage and came up with nothing...

The car - '63 Comet S-22, 4 speed, Original 170 cid engine, .030" over, Clifford header. About 35K miles since the rebuild, this is a daily driver. Even have studded snow tires for it. A real daily driver.

Worn out original 1100 carb seemed like the perfect excuse to ditch the load-o-matic vacuum only distributor too. Bought the 63 specific DUI, re-gapped the plugs, new plug wires, rewired for full voltage to the DUI. Put on the professionally rebuilt 1101.... Wow! Started and dialed in easily enough but not street ready until I figure out the linkage. Please help!

Also I'd like to go to electric choke like I had on the 1100, but having trouble finding the smaller diameter electric choke housing for the 1101 to replace the vacuum one.

And the choke on the 1101 is a bit higher and hits the bottom of the air cleaner. Is there later air cleaner base I should use? I like the look of the stock air cleaner and would prefer to keep it.

Thanks
Greg C
Longmont, Colorado
 
Greg, i can convert your SCV 1100 to ported vacuum.
Maybe cable linkage would be a go??
Need some help from some one who has done the change.
 
Thanks WSA111. That will definitely be Plan B. (PS cool old school Sun machine!)

Not quire ready to give up on this 1101 yet. I was actually looking forward to the larger bore on this 1101, seeing if motor will breath better with the Clifford header I already had. I've been wanting to do this 1101 upgrade for years, and when the old 1100 finally stopped responding to rebuilds it was the only excuse I needed.

Are ALL 1101 'side to side' throttle actuation vs. 'up and down' on my old 1100, or did I make an uninformed buy of a core to send off for restoration? If they are all side to side, is there a known Lokar or other cable and pedal? Or are there Fomoco linkage parts I can use?

Thanks All!
 
Can you post a few pictures to show the trouble spots your having? The 1969 and newer Fords will have the cable type throttle linkage and pedal. I use to go get them from the junkyards for my swaps and build projects they were really easy to mount and use. One from about any year of the Mavericks (1969 to 1977 or same years Comet's and many others) with a 170, 200, or 250 six could be adapted. Or you can get the LoCar set ups.
 
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bubba22349 said:
Can you post a few pictures to show the trouble spots your having? The 1969 and newer Fords will have the cable type throttle linkage and pedal. I use to go get them from the junkyards for my swaps and build projects they were really easy to mount and use. One from about any year of the Mavericks (1969 to 1977 or same years Comet's and many others) with a 170, 200, or 250 six could be adapted. Or you can get the LoCar set ups.
Click to expand...
Sure, here's a few pictures.

The 1101 carb w/o spark control mounted easily enough. However the ball and lever for the throttle plate is rotated about 90 degrees from where it was on the decrepit 1100. So I have to manually pull up the linkage little over 1.5" to the new connection. So my pedal in the car is now near the floor, as if I was 2/3 or 3/4 throttle with the old 1100.

1101 Throttle closed.jpg
So when the pedal is "floored" from it's new idle position I only get maybe 1/3 open on the throttle. Top speed about 60 when I went for a short, frustrating, drive. But more importantly the top of this short rod rotates towards the driver side, but the bottom stays in place in the choke clip. Even if I had a longer rod, the throttle mechanism is made to go up and down. This 1101 has to go right to left. I would think as some point the rod will bind at the bottom choke clip or pop off the ball stud on the carb trying to rotate left as the linkage comes up.

Here is the throttle moved as far as it will go in the current configuration. Hopefully the rotation of the rod is apparent?1101 max pedal.jpg
If I disconnect the rod the throttle can be opened fully, the ball stud will push all the way under the choke housing. You can see my thumb is past the bottom screw of the choke cover.
1101 full throttle.jpg


So throttle cables on FoMoCo cars didn't arrive until 1969 as far as I can tell. Mechanical advance on small six distributors started before that by a year (or more in CA?) So there must be an 1101 mechanical linkage that works with this 170? Alternately I'm thinking (hoping?) a longer rod will raise my gas pedal to where it used to be. If the longer rod had a heim end rather than a choke clip at the bottom, it might rotate enough as the top of the rod moves left? Or someone here has an accelerator set up from a '68 200 from a Mustang, Comet, or even a Galaxie with mechanical linkage rather than cable. I looked at the picture of the cable set up in the post from @falconcritter and I don't picture how the bracket mounts to the engine on the business end. Also, not sure how I get in to drill a hole for the cable in the firewall with the engine in the car....

Greg C.
 
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Hi Greg, thank you for the pictures. These Autolite 1100's and 1101's carb's because of their great fuel economy have always been a big faveriote of mine. Here is some of what I know about the Autolite 1101's they were used first I believe on the Ford 223 six's the last year these engines were used in cars and trucks was 1964 there were some carry over of the 223's to industrial uses and also in custom built step vans in 1965 in any case these were all orginally SCV carb's. On the Sothern California Emissions (Soth Coast Air Bassen) these DSO cars got the Duel Advance point Distribtors and Carb's that used ported vacuum advance instead of the SCV "this was in "1966" I think these were still the 1100's. The first and last year of use of a 1101 on a ford six was on the 1969 250 engines. Dose your 1101 happen to have the factory ID tag still? To further confuse the situation many of the SCV carb's were modded by carb rebuilders so they could be used on other years witout the Load O Matic Distribtors and there by increasing the possibility of miss matched parts and often poor over all performance. Add to this that after this many years parts get swaped and chances are there is a 50 / 50 possability that the wrong part gets used togeather.

The linkage clips and snap on ball conections are fine I have used these same carb linkage parts numerous times building custom linkages and or repairing stock carb linkage. Your right to focus in on the angle of travel of the carb throttle arm to bell crank link. The pictures are a little dark and my eyes are not the best right now. But you might need to lengthen the bell crank arm so that the linkage is traveling in a straight line at the 1/2 throdle opening point it's okay if it moves slightly at an angle in or out from this straight up position. How much differance is there in the shape of throdle arm of your old 1100 and of the new 1101? Best of luck "Edited I forgot to put the correct year of the ignistion and ported carb's were changed in the SoCal area this was 1966".
 
Greg , look at this picture curefully i have too carbs , the far carb is the pull cable . Note how high the throttle ball is high up at idle . And the closest carb , the throttle ball is so low that is the push up rod style . Is that your problem ? Not enough or no push up ?
 

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This is how the Ford cable system is mounted . That bracket that is going over the valve cover is mounted to one carb nut on top and the bottom is bolted behind the coil . You will have to remove your current pedal system and drill three holes ( two on the outside mounting screws for the pedal it and the middle larger for the cable .
 

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falconcritter said:
Greg , look at this picture carefully i have too carbs , the far carb is the pull cable . Note how high the throttle ball is high up at idle . And the closest carb , the throttle ball is so low that is the push up rod style . Is that your problem ? Not enough or no push up ?
Click to expand...
Yes! this picture shows exactly the difference in the connection for my stock '63 linkage. the front carb is(was) the location from my 1100, the back carb shows the elevated connection for my new(to me) 1101. this difference is why my go pedal is so close to the floor now, and I get very little push up before my pedal is to the floor.

If this was the only issue I would just find or fab a longer rod, BUT the actuation is different too. The stock linkage and the 1100 move up and down to open the throttle plate on the carb. The 1101 core I bought had sat on a shelf someone's shed for 30+ years, so I had professionally restored. It never occurred to me to check the actuation direction. My fault, I just assumed it was also up and down... as I now know, it is right to left, 90 degrees rotated from what my linkage was designed for. Is there such a think as an 1101 with an up and down throttle, or all the right to left operation? Specifically the 66-68 California and 68 federal 1101's?

Secondary issue I still need to source an electric choke cover for the 1101, it is smaller diameter than the 1100. I knew there was a choke difference, but I didn't bank on how much trouble I would have finding an electric choke.
 
To my knowledge the 1966 & 1967 Califoria 200 carb's as well as the 1968 & 1969 Fed model they were all 1100's the only 1101 carb used on a Ford 223 (approximately 1962 to 1965) and the 1969 250 six in its year of production. Sorry I miss reported in my above post the wrong year I have corrected it. Ok you can go down to your local auto parts store NAPA (or?) and get a bolt on carb ball stud, then you can mount it in one of the other holes in the throdle arm that's a closer match to your old 1100. You can also make a shorter carb linkage Rod (cut and weld) or make a new one from repair parts that they have so that your pedal comes up higher and gives you full throttle. I have also drilled new holes itn the carb's throttle arms so that is a closer match to the orginal carb. One other way you can change the accusation is to make a simple bolt on adapter plate out of Aluminum or steel to change the new throttle ball stud into the correct position. Best of luck
 
In looking at your picture once again tonite I believe that your 1101 is a 1969 250 six carb this is a carb that's is used with the throttle cable linkage and this makes it a pull type and why the ball stud is mounted up high. These carb's are hard to get and many people used to use them as a upgrade on the 200's back in the day since they are rated at larger 210 CFM they have a 1.29 ventri and a 1 11/16 throdle bore that's a good score. The Autolites used on the 200's were 185 CFM's. For your smaller Dia size electric choke checkout the ones that's were used on the Holley 1940 carb's they are small and might fit other than that try contacting Mike's Carb's to see if he has an electric choke conversion Kit. Best of luck
 
bubba22349 said:
In looking at your picture once again tonite I believe that your 1101 is a 1969 250 six carb this is a carb that's is used with the throttle cable linkage and this makes it a pull type and why the ball stud is mounted up high. These carb's are hard to get and many people used to use them as a upgrade on the 200's back in the day since they are rated at larger 210 CFM they have a 1.29 ventri and a 1 11/16 throdle bore that's a good score. The Autolites used on the 200's were 185 CFM's. For your smaller Dia size electric choke checkout the ones that's were used on the Holley 1940 carb's they are small and might fit other than that try contacting Mike's Carb's to see if he has an electric choke conversion Kit. Best of luck
Click to expand...
Thanks Bubba. Yes - I wanted a larger venturi than on my 1100. I have to confess I did not know exactly what I was buying since there were no ID tag or Ford numbers stamped in it. There is a name of a rebuilding firm stamped on the mounting surface, but I never heard of them. Now that's it's mounted on the car I can't see it. But I knew there was no SCV and the venturi was visibly larger. I've felt the old 1100 was choking the potential of the Clifford header on my car. The throttle plate on this 1101 matches the opening on my phenolic spacer. It partially corrects this odd bump out in the induction: 1100 (narrow) 1/2" --> phenolic spacer (wide) --> intake of the 170 head (narrow). Now the carb and spacer are matched so I just have one narrowing in the flow.
I'd love to see the '68 200 linkage when you get the motor.

I'm trying to picture the modification to the mounting of the ball stud. I think I can see how to do that. time to build things from scraps laying around to make a prototype I guess.

Thanks!
Greg
 
Hi Greg, yes this 1101 carb would be a really big size difference over the stock 1963 Autolite on a 170 engine they only have a 1.10 Venturi with a 1 7/16 throdle bore and were rated at 156 CFM. To really get the full benefit and reduce a big bottle neck going into engine it would be good if you could also open up the carb hole in the log head out to a minamum of 1 3/4 inch or more than also radius (even just a small one helps) on the bottom side of the hole as its leading into the front, rear, and even on the sides of the log ths helps increase the air / fuel flow and helps it in turning into the log. Is a quick and easy job with very few tools needed.

To better picture the differance of the linkage look at both of the two carburetor arms that you have (or in the above picture of Falcon Critter" if they match your carb's) notice the throttle butterfly shaft centerline position in comparison on the one carb and your orginal were the throttle linkage conects is under the the butterfly shaft this would require a pushing action to open the throttle blades. And with the higher position above the butterfly shaft of your new 1101 it reverses the throdle blade opening to a pull type because it was designed to be used with the new for 1969 thodle cable linkages. So if you can find a spot on the bottom of the throdle arm that has a hole like it is on your 1100 or you can find a place to drill a new hole to mount a jnew bolt on type thodle ball stud you get the 1101 to operate just like the old 1100. This has to do with the principals of physics (simple levers and leverage) check out the position of the bottom hole on your original 1100 throdle arm the new hole made or if it already has one on the 1101 would need to be at the same distance below and to the side postion on the throdle butterfly shaft as it is on your 1100 throdle arm if you can closely duplicate that position it work as good as the stock carb thodle linkage did. Hope that's a little more clear best of luck.
 
Hi @bubba & @falconcritter, I got a partially working linkage made and the '63 Comet now can reach 85 mph, which is about where it always starts to feel a little dicey and floaty anyway. Throttle plate goes almost 3/4 open now, with a 3" rod - heim on one end and quick clip to the carb ball stud on the other. My longer term plan is to graft an arm onto the throttle level 90 degrees rotated down from the stock location as Bubba suggested above. The good news is with the go pedal kinda working now I was confident to go install the DUI distributor. DUI is definitely an marked improvement over the load-o-matic based on the old butt dyno.
I'm going to post a new thread about trying to figure out an electric choke for the 1101. With the Clifford header there is no obvious way to do a hot air choke, without it looking like a hokey add on with hose clamps. I also prefer an electric choke as being more repeatable/reliable.
 
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Glad to hear that your making some good progress on your 63 Comet!
 
Re: your air cleaner. I put an 1101 on my 1966 Mustang 200 last year. The linkage hooked right up, didn't even need the adjustable link tweaked for wide open throttle. But the air cleaner was another story. Yes, the choke is mounted too high for the stock 1100 cleaner to fit. You need something made for an 1101 with a dent in the bottom to fit the choke. Perhaps a 1969 Mustang 250 air cleaner assembly or something. I used an older unit, from a 1964 Galaxy I think the junkyard guy said. I cut it down into an exposed element minimalist design.
 
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