Ideas for the next best $150 mod or upgrade

[bucfan1234]

Ok guys. Kind of hitting a wall here. The logical next steps are all budget busters, cylinder head, rockers, et.

So, is there anything else that I can do, that I haven't already done, to pick up performance while I am trying to decide whether or not I want to pursue a new head, rockers, etc.?

Here is what I have done so far.

Duraspark II w/ high output coil, wires
2 Barrel conversion w, adapter
Dual out headers to dual exhaust
Electric Fan

Next obvious upgrades:
Rockers $300 to $650
Cylinder head $600-ridiculous amounts
Cam and lifters $300 (prob better to wait until the head is off

None of those are going to fly right now, so what am I missing?

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Bucfan:

My suggestion is probably not what you want to hear, but- I'd take my $150 and buy up a D7 and later head as a rebuildable core. It will probably cost less than the $150, but will get you going in the next logical direction considering you already have improved intake and exhaust. If you do as much of the head prep as you can-cleaning up ports, blending transitions, fitting a port divider (which you probably go with your headers) and polishing the chambers, that will require less from the machinist and hold down the cost. You will need a machinist to mill the head down to .075" with a Fel Pro head gasket and a 9:1 CR goal, grind the seats to at least a three angle performance cut and back cut the intake valves. Once the head is ready you could make the swap in an afternoon.

That will leave you ready for the bottom end and cam some day in the future.

That's my two cents, For what it's worth.

Adios, David

 

[falcon fanatic]

Good suggestion Dave,
My head upgrade really helped. More than anything, actually. Another idea is to put that $150 towards a track event such as this: http://www.summitpointfatt.com/

It'll make YOU faster, so in essence it will make your car faster. Plus, they're a ton of fun and are great for revealing areas for improvement in your car.

 

[bucfan1234]

Thanks guys.

David, When its all said an done, how much will I have in the head if I do it that way? What kind of ball park gains can i expect from it?

Falcon, I would love to take the car to a track day sometime. I don't think there is one near me though. How does it go when you a there surrounded by high dollar high horsepower rides? Do they require roll cages, harnesses, etc.?

 

[CobraSix]

You seem to be at the point where you either need to wait and save up some more money, or have you thought about some other things, like shocks, springs, Shelby drop (free), etc?

To me, some of the handling mods were my favorite mods (other than my T5 and electronic ignition).

The D7+ head will get you some gains, but not a whole lot. However, if you plan to may go with an Offy down the road, the D7 build up may be a good idea.

What is your end goal HP? Use of car?

 

[MPGmustang]

CI parts
1.75 int +1.5 exh valves = 128.00
302 HP valv springs = 45.00
spring retainers = 36.00
valve seals = 10.00
total = 219.00

I beleive CI charges 150.00 for the 2bbl conversion with just the putty build up, no need to go brazing as it's not forced induction.

then include shipping and the price of the actual head

My guess is you'll be around $500 total, but you'll gain 50% more air flow = HP and Torque, and you'll have a 2bbl directly mounted, you already have the 2bbl and I supposed a cable setup.

CI also will bench flow your head, you'll get his nifty print out of before and after I believe, or maybe just after...

My .02 would be to buy the D7 or later head from mike (maybe some forum member can hunt a few JY's around and save you shipping to AZ) also, and convert it for a direct mount for your 2bbl, you'll get more HP if it can breath better, of course with your 1.75 intake valves and 1.5 exhaust, I wouldn't bother with the port divider as it's just extra money that "might" improve performance as there are no hard facts.

you could go cam for $160 just save today's lunch money... that can gain you 10-15 ponies IMO most bang for your buck right now. but you'll have to be aggressive.

In the end you can get your numbers up to 100hp, it's better than stock 72 hp (EDIT: with a stock cam)

http://www.classicinlines.com/DynoSwap.asp

 

[xctasy]

Wide band o2 sensor, bung, display unit, and a throttle position sensor hooked to a multi meter. Then just enjoy driving for the mpg, and save up. You'll find that your 2-bbl carb is a brilliant econo and performance device.

Lots of fun doing the head mods and even better when you see how much more efficent a better breathing head is for economy and performance.

Simple rule for cars is get the best bits you can afford, and update to something better only when situation allows. Saves lots of grief, and you never loose out.

Then spend a year figuring out what you'd really like to do.

 

[MustangSix]

Cold air intake?

 

[bucfan1234]

I know people say they are a "power adder", but do they really do anything on a carbureted engine other than look cool?

I know that they do make a difference in EFI system with a MAS.

 

[falcon fanatic]

+1 for the o2 sensor. Best tuning tool I ever installed, but It'll likely set you back around $300 with the bung installation and all.

As for the track events, no you don't need a roll cage. Just good seatbelts and a helmet. In the events I've done at Summit Point Raceway in West Virginia they only let ten cars on the track at a time. It's a 2.2 mile track so you are pretty spaced out to begin with. Then there are three designated passing zones and you have to be waved by by the car in front, so it's pretty safe. Plus, you have an instructor riding shotgun the whole time, coaching you.

While there are some high-horsepower, high-dollar cars there, there's actually a bit of everything and driver skill and temerity varies. Last time I went with my '88 Honda Prelude, which was not a fast car, I lapped an Acura NSX twice and a Porsche 911 Turbo once. I guess those guys either had no idea how to drive or just wanted to cruise around the track. Then there was the guy in the rented Oldsmobile that was tearing past everyone. As Chuck Yeager said, "It's the man, not the machine."

Definitely get your suspension and brakes sorted out first or the track events will be more scary than fun. Looks like you have some opentracker goodies up front, so I'm guessing you already have good springs and shocks and have done the shelby mod. Some beefy shackles on the rear springs will help keep the rear from wandering in the curves, too. I used these and they where definitely worth the $100 I paid: http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/Grab- ... ckles.html

 

[falcon fanatic]

P.S. As regards the head I'll just say that I built a totally awesome M casting head with big valves, porting, high compression, great springs (don't use 302 springs, they soon fail), direct mount 2V, and full roller rockers. Probably dropped $1,500 on that deal. So now I have a 150hp engine with a $1500 head. If I had bought the CI aluminum head instead (it didn't exist yet then) I would have spent about $500 more (using stock rockers instead) and I'd have over 200hp with my current build. Frankly, building a log head just doesn't add up in the $$$/HP equation now that the aluminum head is available.

 

[bucfan1234]

You seem to be at the point where you either need to wait and save up some more money, or have you thought about some other things, like shocks, springs, Shelby drop (free), etc?

To me, some of the handling mods were my favorite mods (other than my T5 and electronic ignition).

The D7+ head will get you some gains, but not a whole lot. However, if you plan to may go with an Offy down the road, the D7 build up may be a good idea.

What is your end goal HP? Use of car?

This car is basically a toy. I don't use it for everyday transport.

My goal is to make a really nice "road car," maybe even someday road track car, not a drag racer, and I have already got the suspension gear you mentioned.

Eventually I would like to swap the C-4 for a T-5.

The engine is where I am struggling. It seems that, barring major expense, I have pretty much maxed out my current power plant. So then, considering that major expense, and the return from it, I am at loss as to which direction to go here. I mean do I drop $800 to $1500 on a head and cam for this motor, or do I buy a complete 302 HO combo out of late model mustang for around the same amount of money? I'd really like to stick with the six, but the farther I go, the more doubts I have about it. At any rate, thanks for the help.

 

[bucfan1234]

P.S. As regards the head I'll just say that I built a totally awesome M casting head with big valves, porting, high compression, great springs (don't use 302 springs, they soon fail), direct mount 2V, and full roller rockers. Probably dropped $1,500 on that deal. So now I have a 150hp engine with a $1500 head. If I had bought the CI aluminum head instead (it didn't exist yet then) I would have spent about $500 more (using stock rockers instead) and I'd have over 200hp with my current build. Frankly, building a log head just doesn't add up in the $$$/HP equation now that the aluminum head is available.

Thanks for your input on this. I simply don't have 2k for one of those heads, and I feel like I have to say that the price seems very high when compared to aftermarket aluminum V-8 heads, even in pairs.

 

[ludwig]

I would say 'ram air'. It is a lo-tech cold air induction. David has a couple shown in his Falcon Performance Handbook. He also has a list of cheapest to most expensive things you can do to raise HP. Among the cheapest are to index your sparkplugs. They go up from there.

I did a ram air with automotive ducting and a scoop from the radiator support to the stock snorkel for about $35. It actually does make a difference at road speed.

What they are all telling you is that there is a top end to lo buck improvements. After that you have to go with some major mods. And yes, you can drop a crate engine in and get twice the hp right away. We like to see just how much we can wring out of these little, dependable plants through ingenuity and personal skill.

 

[bucfan1234]

I know, there is a cool factor with the six, which is what drew me to keeping it in the first place.

Looking at my rad support, I dont really see a place to connect the ram air??? Unless I somehow get it below the valance like some of the late model kits used to.??

Someone also suggested a cam. Can that be done without pulling the head and or motor from the vehicle?

 

[ludwig]

The hose is 2" or 2.5" automotive duct from a speed shop. The collector is a 2" or 3" roof flashing from OSH that I trimmed to size. I fabbed a collar to clamp the hose from the left over sheet metal. I took the voltage regulator and rotated it clockwise on the lower screw so it now mounts lower, leaving enough space for the ram air port.

It definitely kicks in over 40 mph.

The cold air induction the other guys are talking about would be something that collects the air from the left front wheel well. There is also a high pressure air space just below the windshield and behind the hood in the vent area. There are collectors that work from there as well although I personally don't know how you'd do that. Possibly a port in the cowl area.

 

[Invectivus]

*SNIP*If I had bought the CI aluminum head instead (it didn't exist yet then) I would have spent about $500 more (using stock rockers instead) and I'd have over 200hp with my current build. Frankly, building a log head just doesn't add up in the $$$/HP equation now that the aluminum head is available.

Thanks for your input on this. I simply don't have 2k for one of those heads, and I feel like I have to say that the price seems very high when compared to aftermarket aluminum V-8 heads, even in pairs.

There's probably a lot of reason for that, low volume sales, short production runs, larger form factor, and what i think is a more complex design than the bent 8 guys have to deal with. Also keep in mind, there are some just plain terrible 8 heads out there, just terrible. If you look for a set of heads that are quality pieces, you're MSRP is going to be between 1500 and 2000 bucks. that doesn't include an intake, which the $2k CI head does, and that adds 5, 6 hundred dollars to an 8. If CI could sell a thousand of these a year, i'm sure the price would be a little lower but as someone who lightly navigates the US 'botique' fabrication/manufacturing waters, it's challenging. Lot sizes set price points, but also increase how much of a businesses working capital is sitting on the shelf.

I won't disagree to the extent that if the head was a grand ready to install, I'd have one already. But that doesn't mean i think it's too costly, or that the comparitive value isn't there.

 

[bucfan1234]

Not trying to start an argument here, its worth what folks are willing to pay for it, and I am sure that it is a quality piece.

 

[bucfan1234]

The hose is 2" or 2.5" automotive duct from a speed shop. The collector is a 2" or 3" roof flashing from OSH that I trimmed to size. I fabbed a collar to clamp the hose from the left over sheet metal. I took the voltage regulator and rotated it clockwise on the lower screw so it now mounts lower, leaving enough space for the ram air port.

It definitely kicks in over 40 mph.

The cold air induction the other guys are talking about would be something that collects the air from the left front wheel well. There is also a high pressure air space just below the windshield and behind the hood in the vent area. There are collectors that work from there as well although I personally don't know how you'd do that. Possibly a port in the cowl area.

Cool Idea. My voltage regulator is just about where you mounted you intake.

Seem like something like this could be modified to fit our mustangs?
http://www.marchperf.com/pg29.html#93ramair

 

[ludwig]

Absolutely. But if it uses a motor, why not put the intake somewhere else? Like inside the grille or something where it doesn't show. But then, I like a sleeper.